don't play best game without gambling

Opie

Opie

Stronger than shortstop?
Silver Member
I've been trying to improve my game so I thought gambling would help. In the few months I've been gambling my game has increased dramatically. I don't play high stakes, usually just 5 or 10 a game or a race for 50 or something. I'm not doing it to earn money, just to improve my game. I usually walk away with a few extra bucks or my pool time paid for for the weekend. When I'm gambling my game is pretty good and consistent. The problem is that now whenever I'm not in a money game and I try to play the same way my game just falls off dramatically. I've known a few guys that won't/can't play without money on the line. Question is, how do I avoid becoming one of these guys and keep consistency whether there's cash on the line or not? Any tips? Thanks.
 
best thing i can tell you is to remember the game is about having fun and getting better. Also, over time you will develop friends you play with.....who are close to your skill level, and it will get to the point where you really dotn want to beat each other out of money,just to practice and have bragging rights. I have a couple friends who i play low stakes games with, like race to 5 for 5 or something, in the end the winner basically gets enough to cover his time. Also we will play games I would never gamble on, like straight pool or one pocket.....this really helps my game at the same time it doesnt cost me and arm and a leg. Try and find some people like that you can shoot with on occasion.
 
Gambling is Good

I have the same problem. It seems automatic - when there is at least some pressure, concentration gets sharper and there is obviously a stronger will to win. Try to convince these non-gambling opponents that betting something - anything - on the game will result in better games (and bragging rights). If they are worried about a gap in skill levels, even it up with a fair handicap. I have given up trying to play my best game when playing for nothing. It just won't happen. I just enjoy the company and have a good time. Maybe he will underestimate your game and offer to play for something next time. If you have trouble finding money games, you need some other form of pressure. Get into tournaments as much as you can, and shoot drills alone, solitary games with a score so that you can monitor progress.
 
imo, gambling doesn't make you a better player, gambling makes you a better gambler. you have taught yourself how to focus on every shot. you have taught yourself the importance of every shot. this is what gambling has taught you, and this is where your game has improved. you probably play SMARTER, maybe duck more and play it safe.

the goal of gambling is finite,,,ie, to win money. this is what you've taught yourself, and this is why you play worse when you're not gambling. i can tell you that when i look around at players gambling, they're not really gambling. they're making games they feel they can win. is that "gambling"? what's the gamble? this is where gambling inevitably leads......easy games for you to make easy money. so,,,where's the learning and improving if you travel this road???

now it's time to IMPROVE your game, and here is where your mindset changes. the goal now is to improve the "beauty" of your game. create a masterpiece at the table........................play better players with beautiful games, and maybe some of it will rub off on you. this is where your game improves because honing the beauty of your game is a neverending challenge. no matter how good you get, you will always see flaws and you will always try to get better. your goals are no longer finite.

sorry for the sermonizing. amen, brotha :)
 
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I try to play the best players in my room...get a friendly ring game...I like to play it like a skins game...play in rotation...gotta put three games together to win the skin...I usually play for league dues or a 'reasonable' beer tab... I like to play up...try that, and as these guys will present a challenge...I think what your really looking for is just that a 'challenge'...for me gambling doesn't get my game up or down...and I already spend plenty of $$$ on pool...so gambling would definately be out of the 'bosses' budget! :D
 
Last night was my second time playing the "main stick" at my local pool room for money. I don't know exactly how I stand as far as my ability goes since there's no "real" standard on how to rate your speed, but I'd say that on any given day I shoot a "C" game, but I can move as fast as a solid "B" player. Anyway, when I played him for the first time for money, I saw that he gave my friend (our skills are about equal) the 6 out. He's not really playing us to make money (he makes his money off the other shooters there), rather, he's trying to help us with our game and teaches us after we finish races-pointing out what we need to work on.

I joke around and ask him to give me the 5 out...and he smirks and says "sure". We play some cheap sets (race to 5 for $5...he says that he doesn't like taking "milk-money" as he calls it...we're the younger players in the pool room) and on the first set I'm up 3-0. I start slacking off while he stops messing around and does five in a row on me. We go again and he runs me 5-1. My friend want's to get in on the action and jumps in on the 5 out spot. He gets ran too! He actually did better when he was playing the 6 out.

Going back to last night-I get bold and come up and ask only for the 7 out...wanting to see if this will raise my concentration-and it did. We instead do a race to 9 for $10 (still some cheap sets-strictly for the learning experience...we tell him it's our "tuition" for him teaching us a few things here and there). We're even up to 5-5...and he runs away 6-9.

We go out for a smoke and I tell him that I want another shot...he says "6 out this time". While we're smoking he says that I need to concentrate more and to "shoot every shot like it's your last". I reply (partly joking and but more serious) "with you, if I miss, it is my last shot". :(

The next set I concentrate a bit more, take a few more looks at the table and (with the help of some hangers by him) I win 9-5. I was even up as much as 6-1 in the beginning.

Sorry for the long post...but I don't think there's anything around the fact that gambling is a huge part about this game.
 
bruin70 said:
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the goal of gambling is finite,,,ie, to win money. this is what you've taught yourself, and this is why you play worse when you're not gambling. i can tell you that when i look around at players gambling, they're not really gambling. they're making games they feel they can win. is that "gambling"? what's the gamble? this is where gambling inevitably leads......easy games for you to make easy money. so,,,where's the learning and improving if you travel this road???.....

Every money game I play is on the square. I never play players that are below my level and when I play better players I don't ask for a spot where it is theft, just a fair game. There is a difference between "gambling" and "hustling". I gamble. Players who want easy money play the drunks and hustle. I would rather loose 50 bucks to a good pool player than win 100 off of someone that can't play.
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Good job, 32-n-d. I once asked a pro if there was something I could do to improve my game, and he replied with "Do you like gambling?" He said to take from the weak and give to the strong. In other words, while it will benefit your game to play the tough guys, your pockets could take some punishment. Ease the pain by playing people under your level. Sure you will probably take their money (and feel guilty about it) but you may be improving their game too.
 
bruin70 said:
imo, gambling doesn't make you a better player, gambling makes you a better gambler. you have taught yourself how to focus on every shot. you have taught yourself the importance of every shot. this is what gambling has taught you, and this is where your game has improved. you probably play SMARTER, maybe duck more and play it safe.

the goal of gambling is finite,,,ie, to win money. this is what you've taught yourself, and this is why you play worse when you're not gambling. i can tell you that when i look around at players gambling, they're not really gambling. they're making games they feel they can win. is that "gambling"? what's the gamble? this is where gambling inevitably leads......easy games for you to make easy money. so,,,where's the learning and improving if you travel this road???

now it's time to IMPROVE your game, and here is where your mindset changes. the goal now is to improve the "beauty" of your game. create a masterpiece at the table........................play better players with beautiful games, and maybe some of it will rub off on you. this is where your game improves because honing the beauty of your game is a neverending challenge. no matter how good you get, you will always see flaws and you will always try to get better. your goals are no longer finite.

sorry for the sermonizing. amen, brotha :)
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I'm willing to bet you've never gambled in pool in your entire life. Gambling DOES improve your game, ask any pro. Archer, Daulton, Strickland, Reyes, Parica, Buddy Hall, Rodney Morris and all the rest gambled a lot and many of them still gamble regularly. It helps one hanlde pressure and makes one focus on the shot at hand. You also learn faster, I remember gambling with a good player years ago and I played what I thought was a good safety and he kicked out in a way I hadn't thought of, now if that had happened in a fun game I'd never have remembered it, but because I lost money because of it, it was etched in my brain. I practiced that kick for the next 20-30 minutes and I haven't forgotten it since. I think it was the great Ronnie Allen, possibly the greatest one pocket player of all time who when asked how he got so good replied "playing for $500 game will improve your game faster than anything".
 
Opie said:
I've been trying to improve my game so I thought gambling would help. In the few months I've been gambling my game has increased dramatically. I don't play high stakes, usually just 5 or 10 a game or a race for 50 or something. I'm not doing it to earn money, just to improve my game. I usually walk away with a few extra bucks or my pool time paid for for the weekend. When I'm gambling my game is pretty good and consistent. The problem is that now whenever I'm not in a money game and I try to play the same way my game just falls off dramatically. I've known a few guys that won't/can't play without money on the line. Question is, how do I avoid becoming one of these guys and keep consistency whether there's cash on the line or not? Any tips? Thanks.
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If that was ALWAYS the case...then why are there so many LOSER gamblers who have been playing for years and still can't shoot worth a damn?
 
drivermaker said:
If that was ALWAYS the case...then why are there so many LOSER gamblers who have been playing for years and still can't shoot worth a damn?
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Good question. While gambling is a good way to maintain focus and drive, it doesn't make a player better if it isn't supplemented with serious study of the game and hours of practice.
 
chalkisfree said:
Good question. While gambling is a good way to maintain focus and drive, it doesn't make a player better if it isn't supplemented with serious study of the game and hours of practice.
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Plus, does it really put pressure on you and make you bear down if you are betting small money that you can afford to lose? To paraphrase the old saying, "pressue is betting with empty pockets".
 
chalkisfree said:
Good question. While gambling is a good way to maintain focus and drive, it doesn't make a player better if it isn't supplemented with serious study of the game and hours of practice.
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I have been studying the game and reading whatever I can get my hands on. I try to play as much as possible. I just think throwing in the money games is helping improve my play alot. It seems to just speed up the process of improvement for me. Off the subject but, I ordered the Pro Book by Henning from Accu-Stats. Has anyone read it and if you ordered something from Accu-Stats via check how long did it take you to get it in the mail?
 
ScottR said:
Plus, does it really put pressure on you and make you bear down if you are betting small money that you can afford to lose? To paraphrase the old saying, "pressue is betting with empty pockets".
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Not the air barrell!
 
Opie said:
Off the subject but, I ordered the Pro Book by Henning from Accu-Stats. Has anyone read it ?
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You will enjoy this book, and as an informational resource, it can improve your aspects of your game, so long as you work at it. I didnt spend nearly as much time with the book as I should of, but what time I did spend, I still can remember certain drills, and varients when they come up in a game. There is merit behind them. IMO
 
Man I didn't want to get into this one...I really didn't. :o Ok, can gambling help your game? Yes it can. Is gambling the only way to achieve your best game? No it's not. Think about it. If I find someone who is better than me and I play them on a regular basis, no gambling involved, what makes you think he's going to be soft on me? Also, if I get tired of getting beat enough, I'm going to get better. I've had guys let me play them before and I'd win one game and get crushed as well, didn't pay a dime except for the table, and my game improved.

Give you a ball...for what?!? I have a cousin and a good friend now (one is a 5 APA and the other is 6 APA, I think...and a 5 BCA), when they play me, they don't give me a ball. If I wanted to play for money, they still wouldn't give me a ball. That's how I get better. In a one pocket game, I don't want you to give me a ball reguardless how good your game is. If I made at least one ball even though you made your eight, I can't complain if I know how good you are. I made a ball at least! :D Nine ball for me is still the same. Make the nine ball, race to whatever! The way I look at it is sure, I won't play for money, but you let the dogs out on me and I'll fend for myself the best way I can. There are players who will coach you like this.

Want to put money into it? Go to a amature tournament. You say you don't want to gamble to make money but get better? Put up anywhere from $50-$100 to get into a tournament and try and win it! If you want to win that grandprize money, you'll improve quickly! :D If you want to gamble fine, but it's not the ONLY way to get better with your game.

Besides, if you really want to gamble, play some one-pocket. Say, $20-$50 a game. And this is nothing, I've seen cats bet $1000+ a game in one-pocket. I bet you'll improve your game then. Yeah I know, it's a bit extreme, but this is the "gambling" I know about and remember. To me, you should be able to bring your "A" game at ANYTIME time, money on the line or not. I assure you that if someone beats you bad enough without money on the line, you probably don't want to play them WITH money on the line. :D :p :rolleyes:
 
Last week I hammered on a guy for a rather quick $75, and the whole time I knew he was fighting a losing battle. Then a couple nights ago we played again, but just for fun. He gave me twice the beating that I gave him last week, running racks and sinking shots from anywhere on the table. So who's the better player? Hard to say, but at least I'm $75 ahead!
 
Opie said:
bruin70 said:
...
the goal of gambling is finite,,,ie, to win money. this is what you've taught yourself, and this is why you play worse when you're not gambling. i can tell you that when i look around at players gambling, they're not really gambling. they're making games they feel they can win. is that "gambling"? what's the gamble? this is where gambling inevitably leads......easy games for you to make easy money. so,,,where's the learning and improving if you travel this road???.....

Every money game I play is on the square. I never play players that are below my level and when I play better players I don't ask for a spot where it is theft, just a fair game. There is a difference between "gambling" and "hustling". I gamble. Players who want easy money play the drunks and hustle. I would rather loose 50 bucks to a good pool player than win 100 off of someone that can't play.
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the diff in gambling and hustling, as i see it, is not who you play. otherwise you'd have to consider reyes is hustling almost every game he sets up. to me "hustling" is hiding your speed to take advantage.
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not for me

Money on it does nothing for me. My best game only comes out in tournament play. I would have far more focus in the Final of a tournament (singles or team), or in practice approaching a 50-ball straight ball run than $20 race-to-seven game. I often wondered if larger stakes would make a difference (race to seven for $1000) but I'm not convinced. I guess if you are money orientated person, or a natural born gambler it means more. I am neither.
 
Mr441 said:
,,,,,ago and I played what I thought was a good safety and he kicked out in a way I hadn't thought of, now if that had happened in a fun game I'd never have remembered it, but because I lost money because of it, it was etched in my brain. I practiced that kick for the next 20-30 minutes and I haven't forgotten it since. ".
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you're making it sound like gambling is the only way for you to take it seriously. well,,,that may be true FOR YOU. remember also that gambling is the de facto way all american(and you can throw in the filipinos) players grew up.

i'll tell you what,,,,,,,take two players of equal skill and equal potential, and have one hone his skills by gambling and the other by playing great players,,,and ten years later, i'll take the non gambler any day EXCEPT WHEN AND ONLY WHEN THERE'S GAMBLING.

and here's the kicker,,,if the non gambler has a calm unflappable personility, he will be able to gamble anyway AND with a better game, while the gambler will not have played anyone great to have learned from.
 
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