Dopingtests in pool

drivermaker said:
BTW, is there a list printed for Norwegian sports that has the drug names that are considered performance enhancing for pool? I'm very curious, or is it just the same list of drugs that they have on the banned list for other sports and carried over into pool?
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Yes. You can find it at antidoping.no, but of course it's in Norwegian. It's basicly the same list as every other sport, but with a few additions. E.g. the legal alchohol limit is 0,00 for pool (plus motorsports and a few other sports) while for e.g. karate it is 0,40. In Norway every pool player that plays in official events (meaning national championships, and the national league ++) are obligated to be in compliance with the anti-doping regulations at all times.

It's also customary to publish all accounts of doing in every sport. But Norway isn't alone in doing this, pretty much all the European countries are very public about doping cases. The US is catching on, but track and field is a painful example of how they've tried to hide the problem. If the US had been as diligent about anti-doping as a lot of other countries it would have been interesting to know what the results would have been. No Carl Lewis, that's for sure...
 
cardiac kid said:
Chefjeff,

I wrote and then deleted further thoughts on the "drug" problem in pool. I'm re-writing them now. I mis-understood your point. Thanks for the clarification.

What do you think would happen if the BCA/APA/VNEA/ACS/UPA/Hopkins Productions/Bob and Eydie Romano and any other national or international sanctioning group wishing to participate issued a joint press release to the following:

Beginning January 1, 2006, the top four or eight(???) finishers in each catagory of regional/national competition will undergo a standard set of tests to determine the use of performance enhancing drugs. The enhancements may be for either mental or physical effect. One dollar from each entry will be collected to support this program. Positive results will result in immediate dis-qualification. Would that have any positive effect?

My bullet proof vest is sitting beside me. Should I begin wearing it? What do you think?
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What I think would happen is that pool, as we know it, would cease to exist.

It is the right of a tournament promoter to set whatever standards and rules s/he wants. I wouldn't play in such a tournament, however, because I own my body. What I put into it, or not, is my business and placing myself into such a situation would relinquish some of that control. And I think the top players---especially those enhancing their performances, but even many who are not---would avoid such tournaments, but I'm just guessing at that.

How about using a CCD for an eyeball, for example....would this be enhancing one's performance? These artificial eyes will soon be coming into the marketplace with the rest of the new drugs and technologies that will help anyone be better at many things, not just pool. Who would want to be "clean" if it was a disadvantage, say, in the work force? Do we disqualify an individual who, in this example, may be blind if he didn't have the artificial eye, even though he would have a distinct advantage on the pool table? Maybe coat it with vaseline?

This is a vast subject with many ramifications and it's coming at us at full speed. Discussions such as these are necessary to prevent the unravelling of competitive sports.

Your comment on wearing a bullet proof vest is telling. This is exactly why I'm against laws that prohibit these types of substances....the laws (not the drugs) make certain people targets for violence.

I'm beginning to think that transhumanism http://transhumanism.org/index.php/th/
will make for verrrrry interesting abilities. Whether or not these help or hurt pool is up to us. I certainly don't have all the answers, I'm just trying to ask the right questions before it's too late and we're all wearing vests.

Again, pool can lead the way or follow. I say, let's lead! What say ye?

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff,

You are way too logical. Obviously better educated than I, both street and schoolwise. Your post was thought provoking. Thanks again.
 
chefjeff said:
I'm beginning to think that transhumanism http://transhumanism.org/index.php/th/
will make for verrrrry interesting abilities. Whether or not these help or hurt pool is up to us. I certainly don't have all the answers, I'm just trying to ask the right questions before it's too late and we're all wearing vests.

Again, pool can lead the way or follow. I say, let's lead! What say ye?

Jeff Livingston
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This makes drugs look like grade school. I'm with you on the leading vs. the following. BTW, can you cook up a big buffet for us of all goodies that you're eating everyday...I think I need more fish. ;)
 
cardiac kid said:
chefjeff,

You are way too logical. Obviously better educated than I, both street and schoolwise. Your post was thought provoking. Thanks again.
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Too logical...lol....tell my wife that, would ya?

I don't know if I'm better educated than you are. Most of this stuff I've gleaned over the last 25 years of reading alternative literature and ignoring the "mainstream press."

It's fun to talk about, anyway...thank YOU for a most enjoyable conversation.

Jeff Livingston
 
drivermaker said:
This makes drugs look like grade school. I'm with you on the leading vs. the following. BTW, can you cook up a big buffet for us of all goodies that you're eating everyday...I think I need more fish. ;)
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It's spooky in some ways, isn't it? But it's fascinating, too. Time will tell what happens in these areas. I can hardly wait.

I use a bunch of nutritional stuff. Mainly, for the past 24 years I used a good soy protein supplement and mult-vitamin/mineral. To that I've added specific nutrients for my problems (eyes, bones, skin, in particular). I also sometimes use various herbal supplements that are shown to increase mental acuity, energy levels (without speed), some sports nutrition bars and shakes, etc.

I market some of this stuff and I don't want to violate any advertising rules on this board so if you'd like specifics you can email me at cheffjeff@aol.com (note: 2 "f's" in cheff)

Thanks for responding,

Jeff Livingston
 
Let me stir the pot a little bit.

Did anyone here know that the number one drug in the Philipines is methamphetamine? That should demystify alot about their domination in pool.

Through the miracle of Accustats, we can now get closeup pictures of players playing in matches. The next time you watch an accustat dvd and they pan away from the table to the player sitting in the chair, take a good look in their eyes and tell me what you think. I'll tell you this right now, if you have kids, and you looked into their eyes when they came home at night, and they had the same look that these pool players have, well, it would make you cry.

I won't name any players, and I won't make any references to what they are taking, but believe me when I tell you that it's surpising how many and which players are using drugs.

Ever wonder why Tony Robles, as great a player as he is, has only won one major tournament?

Ever wonder why some of the legends of yesterday continually come up short against todays better players? Maybe their body/heart can't take the abuse anymore. Read Buddy Halls book, he makes open reference to drug use many times.

Ever watch a match and can't believe how bad your favoriate player is playing? Maybe his doctor was on vacation.

I assure you that amphetamine type drugs have more application in pool than just long sessions. Being able to play long sessions with little rest is just a byproduct of the drug.

Hemi-Correct me if I am wrong, but they use desoxyn to 'Jump Start' someones heart in the case of heart failure. That's some serious shit. I think lots of people here would be shocked to here who's favoriate drug desoxyn is. He's the player that everyone loves to hate.
 
OK, before some dope(no pun intended) misunderstands my above post, let me clarify that my reference to Tony Robles is NOT that I suspect he is using drugs, but that it's his NONUSAGE of drugs that explains why he hasn't won as many tournaments as the others.
 
accdealer said:
OK, before some dope(no pun intended) misunderstands my above post, let me clarify that my reference to Tony Robles is NOT that I suspect he is using drugs, but that it's his NONUSAGE of drugs that explains why he hasn't won as many tournaments as the others.
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It was obvious you wern't accusing Tony of using, accdealer. The only part of your prior post that I am going to address is the part about the, "Guy everyone loves to hate". I had never given it much thought, accdealer but you could have the problem nailed. "Attitude", is a direct result of amphetamines. I have no idea who, if anyone, is using on the pro tour but a direct result of usage is excessive verbiage. The gentleman you refer to qualifies on both counts.
 
accdealer said:
OK, before some dope(no pun intended) misunderstands my above post, let me clarify that my reference to Tony Robles is NOT that I suspect he is using drugs, but that it's his NONUSAGE of drugs that explains why he hasn't won as many tournaments as the others.
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Accdealer, it's obvious that you were referring to Tony's nonusage. Still, I hope he doesn't read your post. Tony Robles is, in seemingly everyone's estimation, a true role model in our sport, but to suggest that nonusage of the substances refrerred to in this thread explains his failure to win more often isn't really fair.

When the matter of top-notch sportsmanship and exemplary demeanor are raised on the AZB forum, two names always seem to surface more than any others, and those would be Tony Robles and Ralf Souquet. I'll guarantee you Ralf Souquet is every bit as clean as Tony Robles, but it doesn't seem to have held him back. He's a future BCA Hall of Famer, plain and simple. Winning first tier pro tournaments is very difficult, and that's why some truly wonderful players like Tony may win very few, sometimes even zero, major titles.
 
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accdealer said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but they use desoxyn to 'Jump Start' someones heart in the case of heart failure. That's some serious shit. I think lots of people here would be shocked to here who's favoriate drug desoxyn is. He's the player that everyone loves to hate.
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The drug that is used to jump start ones heart during cardiac arrest is EPINEPHRINE. Which is basically adrenaline.

DESOXYN is prescription methamphetamine.

I competely know what your talking about when it comes to the accustats. I've seen enough to know that sometimes they are completely out of their mind trying to shoot a particular shot, only to eat my words as they rifle it in and get perfect shape. I mean...to be confident is one thing, but to have your eyeballs flying out of your face is another matter all together.

Better yet, is to actually be participating in a tournament, and have the obvious symptoms be in front of you, in the form of your opponenent. Then you can really see what it's all about.

As for shocked by the name your dropping. I've known about that for quite some time.
AS WELL AS a long list of professionals who fit the bill as well.

It's a part of the game that's always gonna be there.

SUPERSTAR
 
As I have stated in previous threads, Tony truly is the role model for a perfect sportsman in any type of competitive sport. The quote speak softly and carry a big stick immediately comes to mind when refering to Tony. I know Tony a little bit, and consider myself friendly with him, and I certainly don't mean any insult or disrespect towards him or his game. It's like I said in the posts after the BCA, it couldn't have happened to a more deserving or nicer player.

Superstar-Thanks for clearing that up. I too have a pretty good knowledge of pharmacutical medications. If they don't use desoxyn to jump start someones heart, then I am not sure what exact application it has. I know that it isn't an adhd treatment like most amphetamines, maybe it's for somekind of mental disorder or something. Ralf is truly a nice man, he even gave me his hotel room at the Trump 10-Ball Challenge a while back. To him, I was a complete stranger, but I needed somewhere to stay and he took care of me. Although, after watching him many times on accustats, I must say that I have had my suspicions. It's hard to believe that anyone could look that focused naturally.

While I don't condone drug use among players, I don't necessarily oppose it either. I liken it to body building. Here's an athelete that has trained as hard as he can, has reached his physical maximum, and needs just a little push to get him over the edge in the sport that he loves and has commited his life to. Same is true with pool players. And, if used with responsibility, prescription amphetamine derivitives are not so dangerous. Remember, there are tons of teens and preteens that take them every day to treat ADD and ADHD, and even some adults.
 
accdealer said:
Superstar-Thanks for clearing that up. I too have a pretty good knowledge of pharmacutical medications. If they don't use desoxyn to jump start someones heart, then I am not sure what exact application it has. I know that it isn't an adhd treatment like most amphetamines, maybe it's for somekind of mental disorder or something. Ralf is truly a nice man, he even gave me his hotel room at the Trump 10-Ball Challenge a while back. To him, I was a complete stranger, but I needed somewhere to stay and he took care of me. Although, after watching him many times on accustats, I must say that I have had my suspicions. It's hard to believe that anyone could look that focused naturally.
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Actually, it IS used for ADHD. From what my information guy told me, it's not a primary medication anymore. The newer drugs have burst on the scene....mainly Methylphendidate. Which is Ritalin or Concerta.

The only other usage for Desoxyn is for obesity.
So they still manufacture it, but most doctors go with the newer drugs because they work better.

Funny. The guy who gave me all this info is a top shelf player in my room.
Both his parents are Shrinks, and they are the ones who deal with this stuff every day.

I asked him what his thoughts were on it, and he just laughed.
He said that he just wouldn't do that to himself, even though he's had to play tons of people that were high, but that it's just not for him.
He said that if that's what it takes to be the best. Then forget it.

I ask him if he takes ANYTHING, and he took me out to his car and showed me all these bottles from GNC.
Plus these vials of stuff he said were from chinatown full of brown liquid.

He swears by it. He even said that he turned Joe Tucker onto the stuff after Joe had watched him win a tournament at Joe's room, and gave him some of it to try a couple of tournaments later.

He laughs when he talks about how jealous he gets when he goes on a trip to a tournament with the crew...and how one of the guys takes Unisom to fall asleep, and how when they wake up, the guys are Chain smoking...have their cups of coffee, the wake up pills, and their red bull.....all before he's gotten out of bed.

Maybe a soda in the morning, but for the most part, he's got to wake up on his own.

But anyway, going back to topic.

Desoxyn is the MOST abusable of all of them. It's the one that can make you go off the deep end quicker than the others
And when i mentioned what you said about kids taking them everyday, he also pointed out that they were taking them to fix a behavioral problem. To make them function normally.
Where...if you don't have those problems....the drugs act differently on you.

He then mentioned a certain pros and how they REACT to certain situations.
Flipping out and lashing out at everyone around them.
Said it's pretty consistent with stimulant abuse.

pretty intersting stuff.
anyway...i'm gonna go research for more info.

SUPERSTAR
 
drugs and pool

I went to a tournment one nite and just before i got there I pull out a " good time" and smoked it. I got to the table and never miss/ and was in a zone..... won the money.... When I left I said to myself I got this figured out now. The next Saturaday nite I did the same thing / " smoke the goodtime" on the way to the pool hall/ never found the damn place... been going there for years...
 
Hi Folks,

Here's my two cents on Tony Robles. He is the single best, most under-appreciated billiard player in the world today. He is a great friend and teacher to many. If he were between me and the cue ball and he fouled it, I would bet my last dollar he would turn to you and give you cue ball in hand. His lack of wins in the past four or five years can be traced to one thing and one thing only. One male child, I think eleven years old! He is the most important thing in the world to Tony. Pool can wait. If my memory serves me correctly, Tony was also runner up in the 2003 BCA 9 Ball Invitaional. Lots of people thought he got screwed out of that one because of the single elimination finals.
 
cardiac kid said:
Hi Folks,

Here's my two cents on Tony Robles. He is the single best, most under-appreciated billiard player in the world today. He is a great friend and teacher to many. If he were between me and the cue ball and he fouled it, I would bet my last dollar he would turn to you and give you cue ball in hand. His lack of wins in the past four or five years can be traced to one thing and one thing only. One male child, I think eleven years old! He is the most important thing in the world to Tony. Pool can wait. If my memory serves me correctly, Tony was also runner up in the 2003 BCA 9 Ball Invitaional. Lots of people thought he got screwed out of that one because of the single elimination finals.
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Very well said about Tony, CK.

Need to correct you on a couple of points, though. In 2003, the BCA 9 Ball event was won by Ralf Souquet, who beat Bustmante in the final. Surely, you're thinking of the 2002 BCA nine ball event. In 2002, Charlie Williams won it, beating Tony Robles in the final. Charlie had beaten Tony 11-10 for the hot seat, but Tony rebounded by beating Corey Deuel in the first TV match to earn a rematch in the final. Charlie beat Tony again in the final, 7 - 4. It would be very difficult to argue that Charlie, who went undefeated through the entire event, was undeserving of the 2002 BCA title.

Also, I'm guessing Tony's son Jonathan, whom I see frequently, is only seven. You give a very accurate account of Tony's great devotion to his son, and Tony has definitely competed less than he might have because of it, but the fact is that Tony has played the best pool of his life since Jonathan was born. It is a great and heartwarming story.

You're right, though, CK, Tony is underappreciated, though certainly not in his hometown of New York City.
 
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hemicudas said:
It was obvious you wern't accusing Tony of using, accdealer. The only part of your prior post that I am going to address is the part about the, "Guy everyone loves to hate". I had never given it much thought, accdealer but you could have the problem nailed. "Attitude", is a direct result of amphetamines. I have no idea who, if anyone, is using on the pro tour but a direct result of usage is excessive verbiage. The gentleman you refer to qualifies on both counts.
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Not to mention paranoia.
 
sjm said:
Need to correct you on a couple of points, though. In 2003, the BCA 9 Ball event was won by Ralf Souquet, who beat Bustmante in the final. Surely, you're thinking of the 2002 BCA nine ball event. In 2002, Charlie Williams won it, beating Tony Robles in the final.....

Sjm, I keep mentioning that I'm getting older. When I turned fifty they told my memory would begin to go. I can't remember why they said that? Thanks.

Also, I'm guessing Tony's son Jonathan, whom I see frequently, is only seven....

Tony brought Jonathan to a UPA event I played in. I could have sworn he looked older than that! Unfortunately I don't see Tony nearly as much as I would like (lucky you!). I've never seen a father's pride show more than when Tony speaks about him.

Does Tony still play out of Corner Billiards?
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