double black from atlas, HA!!

[Craig Fales]

just got a 4 ft piece of joint & butt
this stuff is PITIFUL!!!!
should be called double grey
anyone got a solution????
shoe polish, magic marker, PUNT

​

Show a pic of that when you have taken it OOOO steel wool smooth and unfinished....the one with the finish looks pretty damn black to me unless I'm just blind....
________

 

[Chris Byrne]

From what I have understood from the people at Atlas. Their company makes it all. Atlas Fibre. This is just what I have been told. Butterflycues

As I understand from chad they don't make any plastic's inhouse. CB

 

[BHQ]

Show a pic of that when you have taken it OOOO steel wool smooth and unfinished....the one with the finish looks pretty damn black to me unless I'm just blind....

the top picture a few posts back is after a little touch up with black sharpie and a couple fresh coats of clear

 

[rhncue]

From what I have understood from the people at Atlas. Their company makes it all. Atlas Fibre. This is just what I have been told. Butterflycues

Atlas lies. They do not manufacture any phenolics although on their web-site they lead you to believe they do. I believe they are the biggest consumer of phenolics in the U.S. though as they manufacture many products out of it.

Dick

 

[Cuedog]

I believe Chris Hightower indicated that he would be receiving the actual double black in a week or so. He may have it now.

Gene

 

[cueman]

just got a 4 ft piece of joint & butt
this stuff is PITIFUL!!!!
should be called double grey
anyone got a solution????
shoe polish, magic marker, PUNT

​

You think you got it bad. I just bought over $5000 worth of "jet black phenolic" from the manufacturer. The sample they sent me was jet black, just like I wanted and can't find at the normal suppliers. Well it came in two tone grey to black. I sent back two samples today and am trying to rectify the situation. If they get the formula right for me I plan to become the supplier of true Black phenolic like we used to get. If they can't I don't know what to do.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[jazznpool]

Chad from Atlas stated that the old dyes used to produce the good double black were outlawed. They are now using a purple based dye to achieve their double black (or double dark gray!). I hope your manufacturer can get it right Chris. We'll line up at your door!

Martin

You think you got it bad. I just bought over $5000 worth of "jet black phenolic" from the manufacturer. The sample they sent me was jet black, just like I wanted and can't find at the normal suppliers. Well it came in two tone grey to black. I sent back two samples today and am trying to rectify the situation. If they get the formula right for me I plan to become the supplier of true Black phenolic like we used to get. If they can't I don't know what to do.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[Cue Crazy]

Chad from Atlas stated that the old dyes used to produce the good double black were outlawed. They are now using a purple based dye to achieve their double black (or double dark gray!). I hope your manufacturer can get it right Chris. We'll line up at your door!

Martin

I was told something simular to that awhile back also. Maybe that's why the sharpie worked for Brent. I tried a sharpie once before and could see purple in the ink, and It did'nt match the rod color so well unless you covered the whole piece, because the sharpie's ink had a purple tone to It. Ofcoarse the only major problem I was having with the rod was the weave showing. It would have lighter spots if you drung sanding dust into it, so It must have been somewhat porus. I learned to seal it before sanding, and that helped some. I have'nt bought any d black in a while, but am due for some, and certainly don't want to get stuck with something I can't use. That stuff is expensive, and even 4 feet of It seems to fly right out the door in no time.

Greg

 

[Mase]

I was told something simular to that awhile back also. Maybe that's why the sharpie worked for Brent. I tried a sharpie once before and could see purple in the ink, and It did'nt match the rod color so well unless you covered the whole piece, because the sharpie's ink had a purple tone to It. Ofcoarse the only major problem I was having with the rod was the weave showing. It would have lighter spots if you drung sanding dust into it, so It must have been somewhat porus. I learned to seal it before sanding, and that helped some. I have'nt bought any d black in a while, but am due for some, and certainly don't want to get stuck with something I can't use. That stuff is expensive, and even 4 feet of It seems to fly right out the door in no time.

Greg

I use the same dye that I use for my stack leather wraps. Seems to do the job very well. You just have to be careful that you don't get it on other part of the cue.

 

[ratcues]

I went through some of my samples again. I have some of the original double black, new Atlas black, and a sample we had made for us. Our sample is the blackest of the three but we fear the same problem that Chris is having. I don't want to order 10K feet and have it not work out.

No companies want to produce this type of phenolic because it is pretty much exclusive to the billiard industry. They feel that there is no money in it for the low quantities they would make per batch. 10K feet seems like a lot to me but is a drop in the bucket for the manufacturer. Same thing happened with the fibre ferrules.

 

[BHQ]

compare these two pics

top cue is buffed out, bottom cue is not (if it was buffed, it would look worse!!!)
black came from the same section of tube
top sample is about 1 foot away from the piece on the bottom cue
only reason i know that is , i cut off a foot to give to a friend
how can there possibly be this much difference??? ​

 

[Chris Byrne]

You think you got it bad. I just bought over $5000 worth of "jet black phenolic" from the manufacturer. The sample they sent me was jet black, just like I wanted and can't find at the normal suppliers. Well it came in two tone grey to black. I sent back two samples today and am trying to rectify the situation. If they get the formula right for me I plan to become the supplier of true Black phenolic like we used to get. If they can't I don't know what to do.
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

That is not good news, I placed an order also that is due to arrive in a few weeks. I guess I will keep my fingers crossed. Chris.

 

[cueman]

That is not good news, I placed an order also that is due to arrive in a few weeks. I guess I will keep my fingers crossed. Chris.

You were not trying to order the more expensive jet black like I was. My guess is I got the type you are after. At half the price I would be happy with what I got. So if they send you guys the same stuff I got I think you will be happy for he price. I am hoping they will make this right.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

You were not trying to order the more expensive jet black like I was. My guess is I got the type you are after. At half the price I would be happy with what I got. So if they send you guys the same stuff I got I think you will be happy for he price. I am hoping they will make this right.

Chris.......Let me know when they are done experimenting for you so I can put an order in for the GOOD stuff!

 

[PetreeCues]

anyone got a solution????
shoe polish, magic marker, PUNT

Actually, I found something that works pretty good, but it's a pain to do when working with slotted rings, or wood rings in between the phenolic.

You can get black india ink, put it on a Q-tip. Turn the cue slowly in the lathe and carefully swab the ink onto the phenolic ONLY (you can't touch wood or other ring work with it). Then you hit the area with 2000 grit paper when the ink has dried and then blow it off with air.

Those grey lines you are seeing there are actually the canvas thread that runs through the phenolic. India Ink is very thin and has minerals in it. What happens is that the ink actually soaks into that canvas thread that you are seeing there, making it black. It doesn't cure totally all of the problem, but it will make it look a TON better. The 2000 paper is strong enough to get the extra ink off of the surface (so as not to interfere with the finish adhesion), but it won't pull the ink out of the canvas that it has now soaked into.

You have to do this process immediately before you are ready to paint. It is the very last thing you do.

Be advised... india ink in wood DOES NOT sand out. It goes right down into the wood and stays there. If you are doing this on phenolic that is next to slotted wood rings or the like, and you touch the wood rings, you have ruined that ring work (unless you like the dark grey stained look ... lol).

When doing it on phenolic next to silver, it's a piece of cake.... the 2000 grit will take the ink right back off of the silver.

Hope this helps.

JWP

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Try some Dykem............Mc Master Carr........I use the black to touch up my G-10 pins sometimes if I don't like how they look.
Comes in a can with a brush for big messy jobs.......or a pen style for the finer things in cue building.

 

[ABChad]

Double-Black® Linen Tubing

Hi AZBers,

My name is Chad, and I am part of the team at Atlas Billiard Supplies. We are all sorry that you are having issues with the Double-Black® Linen tubing, but we may have an answer for you.

If you don’t mind first, a little history: Atlas developed the Double-Black® Linen tubing in conjunction with the Micarta Division of Westinghouse in the early 1990’s. The key was to have the white linen cloth dyed jet-black before being processed in a black resin system – hence the name “Double-Black”. This prevented white threads from showing through on the finished parts. Atlas then trademarked the term Double-Black® Linen.

Since that time, the Micarta Division was sold three different times and is no longer in existence. The other manufacturer that later developed this type of tubing material on its own, NVF Corp., is also now defunct. In addition, during the late 90’s and early 00’s, the phenolic business worldwide was going through great upheavals with plants closing and the prices of Benzene and other raw material stocks going through the roof.

We suffered along with the rest of you. However, we have spent a lot of time and money to get the formula back to where is used to be. We think we have reached that goal, and we have not heard many complaints outside of this forum.

Please take a look at the attached photo. I mounted a 6” segment of Double-Black® Linen tubing to a maple dowel. You can see that the left side is unfinished, and it does look as though there is some whiteness showing through. However, the right side has been coated with a simple acrylic finish, with no addition of ink, dyes, magic markers or anything else. The finish, as you can see, is jet black.

We are sure that each of you has your own special coating and finishing process that is much superior to a simple acrylic. Please go ahead and finish off some of the Double-Black® Linen tube with your own techniques, and see if you don’t get the same good result.

If you are still having problems, please call. We are here to try and help you, not make your craft more difficult. We are available by phone, email or PM me on AZB if you would like.

Thanks for your consideration.

Chad.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Hi AZBers,

My name is Chad, and I am part of the team at Atlas Billiard Supplies. We are all sorry that you are having issues with the Double-Black® Linen tubing, but we may have an answer for you.

If you don’t mind first, a little history: Atlas developed the Double-Black® Linen tubing in conjunction with the Micarta Division of Westinghouse in the early 1990’s. The key was to have the white linen cloth dyed jet-black before being processed in a black resin system – hence the name “Double-Black”. This prevented white threads from showing through on the finished parts. Atlas then trademarked the term Double-Black® Linen.

Since that time, the Micarta Division was sold three different times and is no longer in existence. The other manufacturer that later developed this type of tubing material on its own, NVF Corp., is also now defunct. In addition, during the late 90’s and early 00’s, the phenolic business worldwide was going through great upheavals with plants closing and the prices of Benzene and other raw material stocks going through the roof.

We suffered along with the rest of you. However, we have spent a lot of time and money to get the formula back to where is used to be. We think we have reached that goal, and we have not heard many complaints outside of this forum.

Please take a look at the attached photo. I mounted a 6” segment of Double-Black® Linen tubing to a maple dowel. You can see that the left side is unfinished, and it does look as though there is some whiteness showing through. However, the right side has been coated with a simple acrylic finish, with no addition of ink, dyes, magic markers or anything else. The finish, as you can see, is jet black.

We are sure that each of you has your own special coating and finishing process that is much superior to a simple acrylic. Please go ahead and finish off some of the Double-Black® Linen tube with your own techniques, and see if you don’t get the same good result.

If you are still having problems, please call. We are here to try and help you, not make your craft more difficult. We are available by phone, email or PM me on AZB if you would like.

Thanks for your consideration.

Chad.

Thanks Chad........very comforting to know that someone feels the pain we endure when we're trying to get something right or to look a certain way.
One quick question..........How is the machining characteristics of the material?... the same as the older stuff ?.....I have heard of a few minor issues with delamination when boring the newer stuff.

Thanks for working with us........

 

[PetreeCues]

Hi AZBers,

My name is Chad, and I am part of the team at Atlas Billiard Supplies. We are all sorry that you are having issues with the Double-Black® Linen tubing, but we may have an answer for you.

If you don’t mind first, a little history: Atlas developed the Double-Black® Linen tubing in conjunction with the Micarta Division of Westinghouse in the early 1990’s. The key was to have the white linen cloth dyed jet-black before being processed in a black resin system – hence the name “Double-Black”. This prevented white threads from showing through on the finished parts. Atlas then trademarked the term Double-Black® Linen.

Since that time, the Micarta Division was sold three different times and is no longer in existence. The other manufacturer that later developed this type of tubing material on its own, NVF Corp., is also now defunct. In addition, during the late 90’s and early 00’s, the phenolic business worldwide was going through great upheavals with plants closing and the prices of Benzene and other raw material stocks going through the roof.

We suffered along with the rest of you. However, we have spent a lot of time and money to get the formula back to where is used to be. We think we have reached that goal, and we have not heard many complaints outside of this forum.

Please take a look at the attached photo. I mounted a 6” segment of Double-Black® Linen tubing to a maple dowel. You can see that the left side is unfinished, and it does look as though there is some whiteness showing through. However, the right side has been coated with a simple acrylic finish, with no addition of ink, dyes, magic markers or anything else. The finish, as you can see, is jet black.

We are sure that each of you has your own special coating and finishing process that is much superior to a simple acrylic. Please go ahead and finish off some of the Double-Black® Linen tube with your own techniques, and see if you don’t get the same good result.

If you are still having problems, please call. We are here to try and help you, not make your craft more difficult. We are available by phone, email or PM me on AZB if you would like.

Thanks for your consideration.

Chad.

This is as stand-up as it gets. I do business with Chad on a regular basis. This guy is the best thing that has ever happened to Atlas Fibre, in my experience.

If Chad and Atlas knew a way to make it better, I'm sure they would.

Thanks for the post, Chad. Keep it up!

JWP

 

[Cue Crazy]

The black micarta sheets (Industrial Composites label) are good and black when finished. The material is very consistent also. The double black rod I have was purchased, oh I guess about a year and 1/2 to 2 years ago, and It's like the rod in the picture. It does indeed finish black also as claimed. I like to seal before sanding anyway.
I bought a piece of the single black rod while It was on sale a while back also, and even most sections of that piece were black when finished, but there were areas that could use some dye on the rod, altough that was to be expected with single black, and so I did with that in mind at the time when I purchased It.
I would'nt want to misrepresent the meaning behind My earlier post, so I just want to clarify that any mention of the sharpie on My part was with the single black in mind, and the purplish color of the ink. I was just refering to the color of the sharpies dye, and not so much the fact that any rod in paticular would need that. I have not tried the latest batch of double black though, but the batch I was sent before needed no dye. In fact most of the single I got on sale did'nt either, and for the price I would take some more of It if there was any left. For the price of double black though, I would hope it needed no dye.

I can't speak for anyone else, because i don't know what they received, but about the only real complaint I have is I wish the material was cheaper , but I guess that's economics, and I understand the reasons behind why the stuff is'nt cheap to make., so It's really just wishfull thinking on My part. I wish ivory was cheaper also, but that aint gonna happen .

Greg C