Double spot shots

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Some time ago we had a discussion about how to make the front ball on double spot shots. I made a video to illustrate them but it got sidetracked in a move. It's now up on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNqGO-ndoQk

In the first way shown (with draw), you can clearly see the draw transferred to the object ball as it hooks a little on its way to the pocket.

I never made the last way with follow (in a bunch of tries) but it looks like it is possible if the kiss can be avoided. On a couple of tries the front ball went straight down the table even with follow on the cue ball.
 
PGHteacher said:
Can you go into some more detail Bob? Angle, speed & action? Thanks.
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For the draw shot, put the cue ball about 8 inches from the head spot on the head string and draw the cue ball straight back to you. For the three-ball shot, put the extra ball a little off-line. Tables (or balls) differ so you will have to experiment. The follow shot at the end requires you to shoot the object ball as if you were cutting it just a little off the line of the long string.

This double spot shot is a special case of the general situation covered by the "10 times fuller" system. This has been circulating since the late 1970s.
 
Bob Jewett said:
For the draw shot, put the cue ball about 8 inches from the head spot on the head string and draw the cue ball straight back to you. For the three-ball shot, put the extra ball a little off-line. Tables (or balls) differ so you will have to experiment. The follow shot at the end requires you to shoot the object ball as if you were cutting it just a little off the line of the long string.

This double spot shot is a special case of the general situation covered by the "10 times fuller" system. This has been circulating since the late 1970s.
Click to expand...

Thanks; I seem to remember seeing that before somewhere. Probably in Byrnes or Martins book. But forgotten it, I needed the refresh.
 
Bob Jewett said:
For the draw shot, put the cue ball about 8 inches from the head spot on the head string and draw the cue ball straight back to you. For the three-ball shot, put the extra ball a little off-line. Tables (or balls) differ so you will have to experiment. The follow shot at the end requires you to shoot the object ball as if you were cutting it just a little off the line of the long string.

This double spot shot is a special case of the general situation covered by the "10 times fuller" system. This has been circulating since the late 1970s.
Click to expand...

Probably a stupid question but are there any actions of the CB, OB, Stick, combinations of etc that you have thus far been unable to clearly determine the science behind them?
 
it's kind of amazing how the current rule-set for 9ball basically eliminated the need to ever learn these shots. Perhaps they could be used in 14.1 but I can't remember ever seeing it tried.
 
PGHteacher said:
Thanks; I seem to remember seeing that before somewhere. Probably in Byrnes or Martins book. But forgotten it, I needed the refresh.
Click to expand...

Probably Byrne. Probably described as "Jewett's Ten-Times Fuller" system. Coincidentally, Bob Jewett has the same name.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
it's kind of amazing how the current rule-set for 9ball basically eliminated the need to ever learn these shots. Perhaps they could be used in 14.1 but I can't remember ever seeing it tried.
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Obviously (or maybe not) it comes up in 1P all the time , altho it's not always the best option.
 
RRfireblade said:
Obviously (or maybe not) it comes up in 1P all the time , altho it's not always the best option.
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Yeah, I'm not a 1hole player at all so I wouldn't regard it as obvious. I just wanted to point out that methods to handling a double spot shot was a common discussion 20 years ago because you had to spot all balls made on a foul in 9ball. Since Texas Express was implemented, this never comes up anymore.
 
Nostroke said:
Probably a stupid question but are there any actions of the CB, OB, Stick, combinations of etc that you have thus far been unable to clearly determine the science behind them?
Click to expand...
The more I study this stuff the more I realize I don't know. When I was 20 I knew everything.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
it's kind of amazing how the current rule-set for 9ball basically eliminated the need to ever learn these shots. Perhaps they could be used in 14.1 but I can't remember ever seeing it tried.
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Any time you want to know where the front ball is going to kiss to in a frozen two-ball combo, you need this info. That's relatively rare at smash-break games but it does happen. Usually you will be making a much smaller than 45-degree adjustment to the 90-degree rule and smaller adjustments are much more practical.

The main things that make the double spot shot practical at 1P are that you often have cue ball in hand and you know where to put the cue ball down. Also at 1P a miss is not a disaster if you have buried the rock.
 
Thanks again Bob for all you do!
We were shooting this shot this past wknd.Not to many
front balls pocketed,but the back goes down and back quite often.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
it's kind of amazing how the current rule-set for 9ball basically eliminated the need to ever learn these shots. Perhaps they could be used in 14.1 but I can't remember ever seeing it tried.
Click to expand...
It is a ligit shot I have shot it a zillion times in one pocket. It is great when there are just two left such as the guy had to follow in your last ball bringing up two balls on the spot. Not only can you make the ball but the other balls goes two rails to your pocket and you get out. If you don't make it you have both balls in front of your pocket and the cue ball up table.
 
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3 ball spot shot

The 3 ball spot shot is make able too. The cue ball is placed a ball away from the side rail at the 2nd diamond right at the head string. Hit with draw straight at the head ball like a 9 ball break, the cue ball should rebound from the balls just under the side pocket. The second ball is the ball that goes but with the right speed all 3 can end up on that side of the table. This is tuff because all three balls have to be perfect but I can get the second ball close to the or in the jaws every time I shoot it.

Kai
 
For one pocket I prefer to concentrate on making the two railed ball and the first ball won't make it to the pocket. Hitting it hard enough to make the first ball causes the second ball to check too much for the make. If it doesn't go the your opponent has to deal with a two ball clearance and safety.

Nick
 
Bob Jewett said:
For the draw shot, put the cue ball about 8 inches from the head spot on the head string...

...

This double spot shot is a special case of the general situation covered by the "10 times fuller" system.
Click to expand...
For the 10 times fuller system, shouldn't the head ball be aimed 2.5" left of the middle foot diamond putting the cue ball 5" right of the head spot?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
For the 10 times fuller system, shouldn't the head ball be aimed 2.5" left of the middle foot diamond putting the cue ball 5" right of the head spot?
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be the right arithmetic for the system but it doesn't seem right on the table. One very large factor is how much follow is transferred to the object ball. In the first shot on the video you can see (I think) that the object ball takes a hook towards the pocket as it leaves the spot. How much it hooks depends on how much follow is transferred and that depends on how sticky/chalky the cue ball is.

I think the 10:1 ratio does work for the three-ball shot which is the same as stunning into the head ball.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Yes, that would be the right arithmetic for the system but it doesn't seem right on the table.
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Thanks - just checking my understanding of the system.

By the way, I've found that adding some sidespin (on the side toward the target pocket) helps move the second ball toward the pocket on its two-rail path. Of course, it also decreases accuracy and the effect of draw, both of which reduce the chances of making the head ball. What do you think of this tradeoff?

pj
chgo
 
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