Draw shots with low deflection shafts

[plhlolelnlilx]

Miscues are based on where the tip hits the ball, not on how the tip bends away from the ball.
After a millesecond, the ball is no longer touching the tip. It doesn't care what happens after that (unless you hit it again).
Once the ball is not touching the tip, it can bend away, or smack into the table, or get set on fire,
and it won't affect that cue ball.

A lot of people are buying an LD shaft for the wrong reasons.
They think it will fix some problem in their stroke, their ability to draw or spin or control the cue ball,
Or they buy cuz everyone else has one.

There is only one very specific thing LD shafts do for you.
I think that one thing is very useful so I bought one.
Here's an explanation (a little longwinded, sorry) of that One Thing:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4250445&postcount=13

A great deal of things can happen in a millisecond and now that I've gone through most of the more popular LD shafts, I can honestly say that in most cases the only real advantage in my mind is the radial consistency that is inherit by splicing pieces of wood together. I think many people would agree that this is just as or even more important that the low deflection campaign.

My normal shaft diameter is between 12.25-12.50mm regardless of whether it's solid maple, flat lam or pie spliced. I can tell you without a single doubt in my mind that I can get further outside on a cue ball with a solid shaft pushing through a cue ball than with most low deflection shafts on the market (particularly on softer off axis spin shots). I have had more miss-cues in the past six months than I did the twenty years prior to that. Common sense says that if the tip is made to get out of the way of the cue ball, that's what it's going to do... Even if it only takes a millisecond.

I'm not really interested in debating if ice cream is cold or hot when common sense gives me the answer. The OB Classic line and Tiger X are probably the best preforming shafts available when it comes to mixing low deflection, radial consistency and overall feedback to the end user.

 

[ENGLISH!]

A great deal of things can happen in a millisecond and now that I've gone through most of the more popular LD shafts, I can honestly say that in most cases the only real advantage in my mind is the radial consistency that is inherit by splicing pieces of wood together. I think many people would agree that this is just as or even more important that the low deflection campaign.

My normal shaft diameter is between 12.25-12.50mm regardless of whether it's solid maple, flat lam or pie spliced. I can tell you without a single doubt in my mind that I can get further outside on a cue ball with a solid shaft pushing through a cue ball than with most low deflection shafts on the market (particularly on softer off axis spin shots). I have had more miss-cues in the past six months than I did the twenty years prior to that. Common sense says that if the tip is made to get out of the way of the cue ball, that's what it's going to do... Even if it only takes a millisecond.

I'm not really interested in debating if ice cream is cold or hot when common sense gives me the answer. The OB Classic line and Tiger X are probably the best preforming shafts available when it comes to mixing low deflection, radial consistency and overall feedback to the end user.

I can agree with much of what you say.

I've had an OB Classic & a McDermott i2 for a little over a year. They are my first LD shafts. I really like both of them. I have been playing with english, even extreme, for 46 years prior to these LD shafts.

Now here is my take on the english miscue aspects of which you speak & I certainly understand the softer spin shots of which you speak. The OB cue has a Kamui Super Soft tip & the i2 has an Everest medium tip. In my opinion the OB is a bit more LD than the i2 & it is a bit lighter. I chalk up after nearly every shot. If anything I miscue more with the i2 than the OB. I think it is because of the tip durometer difference between the two tips.

So... I would suggest that one should maybe go to a softer tip if changing to a LD shaft. I had always played with very soft Elk Masters & Brunswick Blue Diamonds so the medium Everest is a bit of a change for me. I like it but as I have suggested there are play ability differences when taken to the extremes.

Just my thoughts.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[Black-Balled]

Shafts are a fad.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Shafts are a fad.

Maybe to you, but I'm keeping mine for as long as my wife like's 'my shaft' & even well after if & when she don't.:wink:

Best,
Rick

 

[hang-the-9]

I know you do lots of research, but from actually trying draw shots with different shafts with the same tip, the LD shafts are quite a bit easier to draw, you get more distance with the same effort. Not just me, my friend and I did tests with several shafts and tips, and my son also notices how much easier it is to draw with an LD shaft. I don't think I have met anyone that has played with LD and regular shafts that think they spin the ball the same way.

You should not experience any significant difference with draw and follow shots. For more info, see getting more spin with an LD shaft.

FYI, low cue ball deflection (AKA LD, AKA "low squirt") shafts have both advantages and disadvantage.

The "getting out of the way" actually helps prevent the chance for a bad hit at large cue tip offsets (where a double-hit miscue is possible with a shaft that is heavy and/or stiff close to the tip).

Regards,
Dave

 

[skogstokig]

but it's hardly the LD "properties" that makes it easier? it should rather be the taper and weight or the shaft if my thinking is right. light shaft = more effect. i could draw just as much with a huebler or meucci old timer shaft as i can now with 314...

i use 314 because i do experience that it squirts less, but when it comes to making whitey dance around the rails and forth and back, heubler and meucci is just as good

 

[ENGLISH!]

I know you do lots of research, but from actually trying draw shots with different shafts with the same tip, the LD shafts are quite a bit easier to draw, you get more distance with the same effort. Not just me, my friend and I did tests with several shafts and tips, and my son also notices how much easier it is to draw with an LD shaft. I don't think I have met anyone that has played with LD and regular shafts that think they spin the ball the same way.

9,

I learned rather quickly here on AZB that a key word is significant.

What is insignificant to some is very significant to others, like me.

We, as experience players, have a very definitive feel. We 'know' as you say that it's more with less effort. That is not to say that another shaft can not get the same but we can feel/know that is takes just a bit more 'effort.'

I may be wrong but I think the 'scientific community' is not measuring the finite differences of all of the parameters in every instance & that makes some of the conclusions inconclusive in my mind.

It does not matter what anyone says, if you believe it, then it's true to you. Mind over matter can be an amazing 'tool'.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[dr_dave]

You should not experience any significant difference with draw and follow shots. For more info, see getting more spin with an LD shaft.

I learned rather quickly here on AZB that a key word is significant.

What is insignificant to some is very significant to others, like me.

FYI, what I mean when I write "insignificant" is: "of no practical use" or "not even noticeable" (to anybody).

Now, as my getting more spin with an LD shaft points out, there is a plausible explanation for why some people might get more spin with an LD shaft (based on how tip offset is perceived), but it isn't because of the physics involved.

Regards,
Dave

 

[ENGLISH!]

FYI, what I mean when I write "insignificant" is: "of no practical use" or "not even noticeable" (to anybody).

Now, as my getting more spin with an LD shaft points out, there is a plausible explanation for why some people might get more spin with an LD shaft (based on how tip offset is perceived), but it isn't because of the physics involved.

Regards,
Dave

Hi Dave,

I thought that might get you out of a Playboy, I mean Popular Mechanics Magazine.:wink:

I appreciate all that you have done & are doing for the game.

But did you feel the indigestion I had last night? Was it insignificant to you & was that Alka Selzer of no practical use to you?

Many many individuals can not feel one layer of tape under a golf grip but Raymond Floyd can.

Many many individuals could not do a pre game warm up at Boston Garden & tell that the rim was a 1/2 inch too low but John Havlichek (spelling?) could.

If you don't understand that I could never convince you & I won't try any further.

All the Best to You,
Rick

PS Ted Williams said that he could smell the bat burn the leather of the ball when he hit. He was amazed that he never could find anyone else that said that they could too. He asked many of the good hitters.

 

[JoeyA]

If you want to draw the cue ball well, learn to make long, slow, backswings especially on your final swing, learn to deliver a smooth, accurate, accelerating hit on the cue ball and follow through the cue ball, keeping your body still all the while. Oh yeah, and keep a comfortable, relaxed grip..

Personally, I have started making the same long-length strokes on all strokes for super-long draw (where the cue ball and object ball are separated by 5-7 feet.

JoeyA

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

9,

I learned rather quickly here on AZB that a key word is significant.

What is insignificant to some is very significant to others, like me.

We, as experience players, have a very definitive feel. We 'know' as you say that it's more with less effort. That is not to say that another shaft can not get the same but we can feel/know that is takes just a bit more 'effort.'

I may be wrong but I think the 'scientific community' is not measuring the finite differences of all of the parameters in every instance & that makes some of the conclusions inconclusive in my mind.

It does not matter what anyone says, if you believe it, then it's true to you. Mind over matter can be an amazing 'tool'.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

Well said sir!.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Well said sir!.

Thanks.

But I ain't given you the 7, 8 or 9. It's even up or nothing.:wink:

Best to Y'a,
Rick

 

[NolesFan83]

I've hit with just about all the popular ld shafts. Predator being my least favorite. But even with a predator I've seen a slight increase in the ability to draw/follow the ball. Not enough to want to switch tho.