drilling out the shaft core

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've read doing this can decrease shaft endmass, and therefore shaft squirt
what I'm wondering is if this is a popular practice amongst cuemakers
and how you all feel about it?
besides the "advantage" I mentioned, any others? any disadvantages?
 
I'm not going to quote your post because I think it's pointless....
English cue maker Mike Wooldridge has a ferrule he calls 'blackspin' and what makes it different is that it goes into the core of the cue. He won't say how far it goes in tho... The effect is comparable to the carbon cues I have tried out.
He was using this system before carbon cues.
Handmadecues.com
 
That's how Predator, Mezz and others makes their Low deflection shafts. The question you should be asking is the value of reducing end mass.
Just use a light ferrule material and a short ferrule and you have reasonably low front end mass, but without weakening the shaft.
 
End mass directly effects deflection. This is why ALL truly low deflection shafts are going to have material removed from, or designed away from the end of the shaft.
It often will make the end of the shaft weaker, but it's the price you pay for the performance desired.
 
This is the best write-up on the topic I've seen, with some nice cross sections of various shafts:

billiards.colostate.edu

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.
billiards.colostate.edu billiards.colostate.edu

Many shafts have a foam or other low-density filling instead of a hollow core to provide less mass while providing "better" "feel" or sound. I don't have anything to add to the debate as to whether any of this matters. But it's fun to drill (bore) holes into wood.
 
Kim Bye said:
Just use a light ferrule material and a short ferrule and you have reasonably low front end mass, but without weakening the shaft.
Click to expand...

I can dig it, tho I wonder how much heavier the average ferrule would actually be- ?
my ferrule is 3/8 and carbon, but I have no idea what it weighed before it was installed
and now I'm wondering why you almost never see black ferrules, hm.

thanks all for the replies- this topic appears to be somewhat controversial
if boring the shaft really made it weaker, I'm not sure that's a worthwhile tradeoff
but different strokes for different folks is fer sure..thanks again
 
evergruven said:
I can dig it, tho I wonder how much heavier the average ferrule would actually be- ?
my ferrule is 3/8 and carbon, but I have no idea what it weighed before it was installed
and now I'm wondering why you almost never see black ferrules, hm.

thanks all for the replies- this topic appears to be somewhat controversial
if boring the shaft really made it weaker, I'm not sure that's a worthwhile tradeoff
but different strokes for different folks is fer sure..thanks again
Click to expand...
They are filled with a light material(foam, lighter wood) after boring. Plenty strong. Ferrules: https://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html Gives you an idea of how the ferrule weights compare.
 
whammo57 said:
low deflection is just a sales gimmick .............. it cannot diagnose, prevent, or cure a lack of a stroke
Click to expand...
have you ever used a good low-defl. shaft? apparently not or you wouldn't keep spewing this drivel. i have a beautiful Jensen with ivory ferrules that deflects like hell. with my mezz(12.5) shaft i can aim almost directly at my aim point when using english. with the jensen i have to make big correction for the squirt. with smaller shafts like the Z-taper the deflection is even less. again i tip my hat to anyone who goes this far to look stupid. congrats.
 
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evergruven said:
I can dig it, tho I wonder how much heavier the average ferrule would actually be- ?
my ferrule is 3/8 and carbon, but I have no idea what it weighed before it was installed
and now I'm wondering why you almost never see black ferrules, hm.

thanks all for the replies- this topic appears to be somewhat controversial
if boring the shaft really made it weaker, I'm not sure that's a worthwhile tradeoff
but different strokes for different folks is fer sure..thanks again
Click to expand...
One brand in particular stands out when it comes to ferrules cracking and shafts delaminating.. so yes using a slip fit ferrule and hollowing out the front of the shaft does indeed weaken the construction. Have you looked at the new Sigma shaft from Mezz? It uses a very thin .125" ferrule threaded in to the shaft, turning the standard construction method literally on its head.
 
I tried drilling the front 5" and used a carbon fiber tube to fill the hole.
It made the hit hard and deflection reduction was not worth the trouble.
Drilling and filling it with foam and having a really thin tenon and ferrule is a repair or.replacement waiting to happen.
Now , if there was a way to drill 1/8 diam by 1 inch or so deep and expand that hole to .300 or so.....
 
Kim Bye said:
One brand in particular stands out when it comes to ferrules cracking and shafts delaminating.. so yes using a slip fit ferrule and hollowing out the front of the shaft does indeed weaken the construction. Have you looked at the new Sigma shaft from Mezz? It uses a very thin .125" ferrule threaded in to the shaft, turning the standard construction method literally on its head.
Click to expand...

I had to look it up, interesting-
mezzcue.com

Mezz WX-Σ (Sigma) | Mezz Cues: High Quality High Performance Cues, Shafts and Gear

Mezz cues is a high quality, high performance pool, carom and snooker cues, 100% made in Japan.
mezzcue.com mezzcue.com
mezzcue.com

WX-Σ Shaft (WX Sigma) | Mezz Cues: High Quality High Performance Cues, Shafts and Gear

Mezz cues is a high quality, high performance pool, carom and snooker cues, 100% made in Japan.
mezzcue.com mezzcue.com
looks like the shaft is hollowed out, but I don't see any specific info. about it, except that mezz boasts LD
 
evergruven said:
I had to look it up, interesting-
looks like the shaft is hollowed out, but I don't see any specific info. about it, except that mezz boasts LD
Click to expand...
Pretty much the same setup as a lot of carbon fiber shafts, minus the threads. Looks like it would hold up pretty well. The endgrain will be solidly supported, which isn't always the case with a more traditional LD ferrule setup.

V2HLo3x.png
 
garczar said:
have you ever used a good low-defl. shaft? apparently not or you wouldn't keep spewing this drivel. i have a beautiful Jensen with ivory ferrules that deflects like hell. with my mezz(12.5) shaft i can aim almost directly at my aim point when using english. with the jensen i have to make big correction for the squirt. with smaller shafts like the Z-taper the deflection is even less. again i tip my hat to anyone who goes this far to look stupid. congrats.
Click to expand...
if you bought one..... you also bought the bullshit about it and how wonderful they are...........................
 
whammo57 said:
low deflection is just a sales gimmick .............. it cannot diagnose, prevent, or cure a lack of a stroke
Click to expand...

At no point in the "sales gimmick" did low deflection claim to diagnose, prevent, or cure a lack of a stroke. How are you even comparing these?
 
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Sheldon said:
Pretty much the same setup as a lot of carbon fiber shafts, minus the threads. Looks like it would hold up pretty well. The endgrain will be solidly supported, which isn't always the case with a more traditional LD ferrule setup.

V2HLo3x.png
Click to expand...
It's a pretty slick design, but without many of the issues that Predator shafts have.
 
I have built two identical shafts one I drilled out a 1/4 in diameter about 4 in deep. The ferrule is this walled and short and is also reinforced with carbon fiber as it transitions into the bore. The other shaft has a traditional design with 3/4 in long threaded ferrule, I will play with both for a while and see how they compare. I think it really boils down to what you build your game around, low deflection shafts work in that you don't have to compensate nearly as much. If you have already made the adjustments in your game and you can "consistently" make the right adjustment and you are not missing shots then its a non issue. But you have to be honest with yourself about how consistent you are... I think for many who embraced the tech, they would never go back. The only down side I see to low deflection is in the mase or jumping department and to a lesser degree the sound or feel of the hit.
 
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