Dropping The Sock - Keeping Connected

Well, what you're talking about takes a very long time to develop.very true, most times yes some times it happens quick A player isn't going to shoot with a sock under their arm that long to develop those types of compensations. I think you're reaching a bit here.

but what mats saying is the basic reason why i said your O.g. statement in this thread wasn't correct AT ALL.

i dont alwas agree with matt.....and actually he kind of really pissed me off few months ago.....no worries matt....dont worry about it at all, we can talk about that privately, i'm just saying you were not out of line in a message necessarily, but to me i found it a little crass somewhat....just putting out something to let fran and the troll king that you and I.....are by no means friends lol, vague aquantices at best via a couple messages, that is all. (hope you understand buddy and dont mind me saying this) and english if you want to know more.....mind your got dam business.

matts right....end of story. and i've personally assisted players from begin to advanced in skill that have taken long time to get it right....and also seen people grab it and take off in light speed in a matter of days....real talk....magic not necessary

-Greyghost
 
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Well, what you're talking about takes a very long time to develop. A player isn't going to shoot with a sock under their arm that long to develop those types of compensations. I think you're reaching a bit here.

1. Stick a sock under your student's arms. If they have awesome stance, their arm was online beforehand. If not, they are likely slightly off line.

2. If there arms were slightly offline to begin, they already are grooved to stroke using compensation.

You are certainly correct regarding being online/offline with the arm. However, since many players are off center cue ball, for example, when they aim center, the sock could help them aim straighter through... off-center. Then, they will adjust to make the shot, or not adjust to miss. So, yes, the sock could help them, but if they don't know/feel where the straight line is in space, it won't help them as much.

I'm sure you already do the same as me with students regarding "commitment to miss" (you might, I don't remember if you've written about this elsewhere). I tell a student with a compensation swerve, "If you want to get better at pocketing balls, you must be willing to miss, that is, go straight back and forth without swerving, then you'll either score the ball or miss, and know if it's your aim/line, etc. but as long as you swerve, you'll never know if you are aimed straight at the target to begin."

Tom Simpson has a great device (if you're a fan of pure pinned elbows) called the Stroke Groover. It completely forces the player to not drop the upper arm during the swing (they can raise it, just can't drop it). Holding a sock inside my arm by will does not force me to maintain a straight line arm motion, rather, I can still hold the sock with varied amounts of pressure and come off line. If the Stroke Groover was turned sideways to force a straight line motion, then yes, it would be killer to diagnose non-straight alignment, unless a player was flipping their hand/wrist to adjust.

Sorry for the length of this post, but all of this equals...

A player isn't going to shoot with a sock under their arm that long to develop those types of compensations.

But! If a player already has those types of compensations, they won't instantly lose them with a sock. When you take a student you see is aimed off line, and physically move them to the correct line, they have to still commit to going straight, not swerving. The sock will not help a "crooked" player that much IMHO.

Thanks.
 
but what mats saying is the basic reason why i said your O.g. statement in this thread wasn't correct AT ALL.

i dont alwas agree with matt.....and actually he kind of really pissed me off few months ago.....no worries matt....dont worry about it at all, we can talk about that privately, i'm just saying you were not out of line in a message necessarily, but to me i found it a little crass somewhat....just putting out something to let fran and the troll king that you and I.....are by no means friends lol, vague aquantices at best via a couple messages, that is all. (hope you understand buddy and dont mind me saying this) and english if you want to know more.....mind your got dam business.

matts right....end of story. and i've personally assisted players from begin to advanced in skill that have taken long time to get it right....and also seen people grab it and take off in light speed in a matter of days....real talk....magic not necessary

-Greyghost

Brother, I had no idea you were upset. Whatever it was, we can talk offline by PM or you can post it right here... that's cool. You have to be able to roll with the punches on a forum like this--I have teaching friends and pros who will not come to these forums because they don't want to deal with the hassles, but hassles are how people learn.

I'm not a crass or rude kind of guy, but most everyone sounds dopey over an Internet text connection!

And I shouldn't have been so abrupt to begin. The sock is cool. I used to do something similar once in a while, have a player pull down their long sleeve shirt or sweater over their hand to grip the cue with--I've had other players put a thumb of their shooting hand in a pants pocket while shooting (long story to be told later).

...and I do recommend the Stroke Groover as above (if you're a fan of pinned elbow strokes). I like only a few pool gadgets, but the ones I like often help a player "get it" when words (Internet words!) don't suffice.
 
If the Stroke Groover was turned sideways to force a straight line motion, then yes, it would be killer to diagnose non-straight alignment.

This has crossed my mind. Quite a bit recently. Something to hold your arm in that straight motion so you don't swerve or do the "Inside Out" motion that I have.

r/Mike
 
1. Stick a sock under your student's arms. If they have awesome stance, their arm was online beforehand. If not, they are likely slightly off line.

2. If there arms were slightly offline to begin, they already are grooved to stroke using compensation.

You are certainly correct regarding being online/offline with the arm. However, since many players are off center cue ball, for example, when they aim center, the sock could help them aim straighter through... off-center. Then, they will adjust to make the shot, or not adjust to miss. So, yes, the sock could help them, but if they don't know/feel where the straight line is in space, it won't help them as much.

I'm sure you already do the same as me with students regarding "commitment to miss" (you might, I don't remember if you've written about this elsewhere). I tell a student with a compensation swerve, "If you want to get better at pocketing balls, you must be willing to miss, that is, go straight back and forth without swerving, then you'll either score the ball or miss, and know if it's your aim/line, etc. but as long as you swerve, you'll never know if you are aimed straight at the target to begin."

Tom Simpson has a great device (if you're a fan of pure pinned elbows) called the Stroke Groover. It completely forces the player to not drop the upper arm during the swing (they can raise it, just can't drop it). Holding a sock inside my arm by will does not force me to maintain a straight line arm motion, rather, I can still hold the sock with varied amounts of pressure and come off line. If the Stroke Groover was turned sideways to force a straight line motion, then yes, it would be killer to diagnose non-straight alignment, unless a player was flipping their hand/wrist to adjust.

Sorry for the length of this post, but all of this equals...



But! If a player already has those types of compensations, they won't instantly lose them with a sock. When you take a student you see is aimed off line, and physically move them to the correct line, they have to still commit to going straight, not swerving. The sock will not help a "crooked" player that much IMHO.

Thanks.

Too complicated.

A sock under the arm. That's all we're discussing here.

Grooving a stroke to me means creating a new stroke -- as in creating a groove --- as in 'grooving.' Now you're referring to old habits. So now you're grooving something old?

Look. It's just a sock. It might help. Let him try. He'll know if it doesn't work.
 
DrCue'sProtege,

The sock thing sounds interesting and I'd like to read your results after you've tried it. With that said, I also had a minor swoop to the inside and all I did to fix it was move my forward foot out (not forward or back) about an inch or two. This squared up the torso to shoulder connection just enough to provide a straight stroke.

Stroke issues are not always arm related. They very easily can be caused by misplaced feet and body alignment.

Note: I'm not an instructor, just relaying what worked for me and people I've helped.
 
Too complicated.

A sock under the arm. That's all we're discussing here.

Grooving a stroke to me means creating a new stroke -- as in creating a groove --- as in 'grooving.' Now you're referring to old habits. So now you're grooving something old?

Look. It's just a sock. It might help. Let him try. He'll know if it doesn't work.

I agree. I'll "put a sock in it for now". The best teaching methods are simple, not complicated. Yes.
 
Having the arm too close to the torso, in particular the upper arm, can tend to create a side arm technique which in turn produces an arc in the cue action.

I have always taught people to concentrate on getting the shoulder and elbow above the cue at all times then the hand automatically is above the cue and cueing straight becomes a doddle.

The sock method is OK, but you have to really get the hips away from the grip and make a focused effort on this to avoid creating a side arm shooting habit.
 
Mike,

Glad you are able to focus and are using a variety of techniques to help with the swerve we saw last weekend. I used a sock when I was bowling and have a similar motion. The sock was supposed to drop beside the foul line. I believe that you may have to experiment with multiple things to get permanent improvement.

Right now you know you have an "inside out" movement on the back swing. What causes this? Its speculation, which has occurred on this thread. How can you fix it? Well that is dynamic. It could be stance/foot related, it could be speed of back swing, it could be distance of backswing, it could be fast transition of directions. Regardless of potential causes, each should be evaluated separately. Experimenting with each change and then giving an honest self-assessment of the experiment is paramount to finding true root cause and then training our body to fix. I have found documenting my observations helps me be honest about things that I never realized before.

In general when we are able to "see" what is happening during the pool shot and pay attention to our bodies and the result of the pool shot, we can make mechanical adjustments. It takes diligent effort and dedication to make modifications to what our bodies do naturally. Improvement is difficult, and requires significant work. Our bodies were not built to play pool and that is one of many reasons why we all play. Becoming skilled at the very precision of the game is a continual process and to truly excel requires a relationship between the player and our body.

Anyhow, good luck and keep us informed!
 
Brother, I had no idea you were upset. Whatever it was, we can talk offline by PM or you can post it right here... that's cool. You have to be able to roll with the punches on a forum like this--I have teaching friends and pros who will not come to these forums because they don't want to deal with the hassles, but hassles are how people learn.

I'm not a crass or rude kind of guy, but most everyone sounds dopey over an Internet text connection!

And I shouldn't have been so abrupt to begin. The sock is cool. I used to do something similar once in a while, have a player pull down their long sleeve shirt or sweater over their hand to grip the cue with--I've had other players put a thumb of their shooting hand in a pants pocket while shooting (long story to be told later).

...and I do recommend the Stroke Groover as above (if you're a fan of pinned elbow strokes). I like only a few pool gadgets, but the ones I like often help a player "get it" when words (Internet words!) don't suffice.

i know :) i was just making a point mostly, because it seems lately groups of people started geting attacked and such for saying anything along with someone else....didn't know if you had wnated to get lumped with the pool illuminattii
 
DrCue'sProtege,

The sock thing sounds interesting and I'd like to read your results after you've tried it. With that said, I also had a minor swoop to the inside and all I did to fix it was move my forward foot out (not forward or back) about an inch or two. This squared up the torso to shoulder connection just enough to provide a straight stroke.

Stroke issues are not always arm related. They very easily can be caused by misplaced feet and body alignment.

Note: I'm not an instructor, just relaying what worked for me and people I've helped.

powerful statement
 

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