Eagle eye and sightright

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Well, they are not that vague. In the video on the "Step In", they show a graphic arts depiction of Stephen Hendry standing in his PSR, with his vision center aligned with the shot line. There is a circle around his right hand, which is holding the butt of the cue. The shot line roughly hits the middle of his waistline, and his right hand is on the outside of his right hip, so his right hand is half a body width to the right of the shot line. The video says to note that his right hand is well to the right of the shot line. Then the video explains how it's very natural to step in so that the butt of the cue aligns with the shot line.

Stephen Feeney, the inventor of SightRight, emphatically rejects the long taught notion that you should start with you right foot on the shot line, which would put the butt of the cue on the shot line when you are standing square to the shot. Instead, he teaches that the shot line should hit the middle of your body when standing square to the shot line in your PSR--the exact location depending on where your personal vision center is. That way, your vision center is aligned with the shot line, and you see the "true" angles of your shots.

If you are saying that Stephen Feeney teaches that you should start with the cue extended in front of your body with your right hand on the shot line, then I believe that is incorrect because he says the exact opposite in the videos on the Step In. Here is good look at Mark Williams during his match against Ronnie O'Sullivan, and he doesn't appear to do anything unusual, and I don't see any wrist rotation:

i called them because i stand closer to my angled stance (think pool stance not snooker stance) when lining up
and i confirmed with the sighright (i bought a membership and have gone thru the videos)
that i could stand with my head /vision center/right hand/and right foot all on the shot line when aligning
i wanted to know if this was "wrong"
and all i got back was to do it the way it was described
i wanted to discuss this with stephen hendry and offered to pay for his time to discuss it
and never got a reply from him or them
my question was what i was doing eliminated "the step" which forces you to bring your foot and hand from off line to online
seemed unneccesary to me
but i recognized they are pros and should know better
thats why i wanted someone to explain why my way was " wrong"
 
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George the Greek

Well-known member
i called them because i stand closer to my angled stance (think pool stance not snooker stance) when lining up
and i confirmed with the sighright (i bought a membership and have gone thru the videos)
that i could stand with my head /vision center/right hand/and right foot all on the shot line when aligning
i wanted to know if this was "wrong"
and all i got back was ro do it the way it was described
i wanted to discuss this with stephen hendry and offered to pay for his time to discuss it
and never got a reply from him or them
my question was what i was doing eliminated "the step" which forces you to bring your foot and hand from off line to online
seemed unneccesary to me
but i recognized they are pros and should know better
thats why i wanted someone to explain why my way was " wrong"
I started playing snooker and the first thing I tried to learn was how to shoot the cueball straight by placing the cueball on the brown spot and hitting it up/down the table at various speeds but remaining down with the cue and watching the cueball. It was going left/right and getting frustrating and I figured I wasn't standing right to get straight cue delivery. I placed a dime halfway to the brown spot and put the cue over it and sitting on the rail and almost touching the cueball. I ended up finding a comfortable stance for myself ( box stance I call it) and it worked.
 
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7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i called them because i stand closer to my angled stance (think pool stance not snooker stance) when lining up
and i confirmed with the sighright (i bought a membership and have gone thru the videos)
that i could stand with my head /vision center/right hand/and right foot all on the shot line when aligning
i wanted to know if this was "wrong"
and all i got back was ro do it the way it was described
i wanted to discuss this with stephen hendry and offered to pay for his time to discuss it
and never got a reply from him or them
my question was what i was doing eliminated "the step" which forces you to bring your foot and hand from off line to online
seemed unneccesary to me
but i recognized they are pros and should know better
thats why i wanted someone to explain why my way was " wrong"
SightRight teaches you to:

1. Align your vision center on the shot line during your PSR.
2. Step in to get the butt of the cue on the shot line.
3. When down on the shot, move your head to realign your vision center over the shot line/cue.

You are doing all three, without ever moving your vision center off the shot line, so your method sounds better to me.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
At 7:40 he asks whether Ronnie would see this line straight according to this sighting aid, and if not whether he would improve if he centered his cue around his sighting center. His answer "I haven't got a clue".

How many top players are sighting perfectly aligned with their vision center? Is it possible many aren't centered right but have just learned to recognize the angles based on experience?
I think "vision center" is overrated. The shot can look straight but that does not mean you will draw the cue back straight.
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
The best thing Jayson could do for "his" game, is lose about 20 pounds. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

Stop with the Bon-bons, Bagels and Beer. Get back to stealth mode.
A lot of people could lose weight including myself. Jayson in the last 1.5 years at the same weight has won a lot of major events including the International open and a lot of top 5 finishes and of course ran 714 balls and set the World Record high run in straight pool.
Sounds to me that your comments are out of line and you just don't like Jayson. If that's not the case maybe you should look back and reflect on what he has accomplished in the last 1.5 years and also his career.
 
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7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think "vision center" is overrated. The shot can look straight but that does not mean you will draw the cue back straight.
What does drawing your cue back straight have to do with "seeing the angle"? If you can't see the "correct" angle, and you can't draw your cue back straight, is that a better situation to be in? It seems to me that everything you do to get nearer to perfect sighting and perfect stroking will help you sink balls. Of course, as TinMan preaches, stroking the ball is not all there is to playing pool, there are other things you need to work on, too, and some of us spend too much time on our stroke and not enough time on other aspects of the game.
 
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pw98

Registered
Well, they are not that vague. In the video on the "Step In", they show a graphic arts depiction of Stephen Hendry standing in his PSR, with his vision center aligned with the shot line. There is a circle around his right hand, which is holding the butt of the cue. The shot line roughly hits the middle of his waistline, and his right hand is on the outside of his right hip, so his right hand is half a body width to the right of the shot line. The video says to note that his right hand is well to the right of the shot line. Then the video explains how it's very natural to step in so that the butt of the cue aligns with the shot line.

Stephen Feeney, the inventor of SightRight, emphatically rejects the long taught notion that you should start with you right foot on the shot line, which would put the butt of the cue on the shot line when you are standing square to the shot. Instead, he teaches that the shot line should hit the middle of your body when standing square to the shot line in your PSR--the exact location depending on where your personal vision center is. That way, your vision center is aligned with the shot line, and you see the "true" angles of your shots.

If you are saying that Stephen Feeney teaches that you should start with the cue extended in front of your body with your right hand on the shot line, then I believe that is incorrect because he says the exact opposite in the videos on the Step In. Here is good look at Mark Williams during his match against Ronnie O'Sullivan, and he doesn't appear to do anything unusual, and I don't see any wrist rotation:

I have seen the videos and use it. You do not have to start with your foot on the line to do it the way I am suggesting. Just look at Mark Wilson because he is clearly doing it. Steven is doing it his own way. Look at the finals of the recent world championship Mark Wilson won. He is clearly doing it there.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What does drawing your cue back straight have to do with "seeing the angle"? If you can't see the "correct" angle, and you can't draw your cue back straight, is that a better situation to be in? It seems to me that everything you do to get nearer to perfect sighting and perfect stroking will help you sink balls. Of course, as TinMan preaches, stroking the ball is not all there is to playing pool, there are other things you need to work on, too, and some of us spend too much time on our stroke and not enough time on other aspects of the game.
I was too short in my response. I'm saying that the concept of a "vision center" is not universally accepted as being critically important. Mark Wilson was mentioned. He does not advocate finding your "vision center" which also seems to mean different things to different people. I just don't think the concept has been hashed out thoroughly. What if you find the vision center, which most likely is the position you naturally gravitate towards, but can't stroke the cue on that line comfortably or consistently?

You can put your eyes practically anywhere you want and you will get used to it. I am left eye dominant but now play with the cue centered between both eyes or even a bit to the inner corner of the right eye. In this position, the ob, cb and shaft of the cue all look in line and ARE in line, plus the take back of the stroke is in a comfortable place.

Hope that clarifies my point. I agree that there are many aspects to the game and they should all be given proper attention.

I am not an instructor, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just my experience over the last 25 years.
 

Tooler

AhSheetMaDruars
Silver Member
A lot of people could lose weight including myself. Jayson in the last 1.5 years at the same weight has won a lot of major events including the International open and a lot of top 5 finishes and of course ran 714 balls and set the World Record high run in straight pool.
Sounds to me that your comments are out of line and you just don't like Jayson. If that's not the case maybe you should look back and reflect on what he has accomplished in the last 1.5 years and also his career.


Please, don't you have a table to gaff ?

Jayson, is a world class player, His accomplishments are incredible. Nobody denies what he's done.
I don't hate Jayson. I love his pace at the table, when he's free wheeling, and I enjoy watching him play.

What I hate seeing, is someone with rare talent, fall into the American lifestyle of obesity. Jayson is obese.
He's also young enough to nip it in the bud, before it gets out of control.

All you have to do, is watch some replays of Jayson, from 2018, and then watch the recent finals with FSR.
It's wearing him down.



All the talk about his game. There's nothing wrong with his game. Nothing.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think "vision center" is overrated. The shot can look straight but that does not mean you will draw the cue back straight.
That's because no matter how you stand, your stroke will always be biased by the awkward tensions in any stance. Taller framed individuals fare better with their builtin leverage and forgiving skeletons. It dawned on me the other day the old guys had an easier time with linearity because with no concern for aiming at cue level, the body was comfortably clear of the stroke path.
 

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was too short in my response. I'm saying that the concept of a "vision center" is not universally accepted as being critically important. Mark Wilson was mentioned. He does not advocate finding your "vision center" which also seems to mean different things to different people. I just don't think the concept has been hashed out thoroughly. What if you find the vision center, which most likely is the position you naturally gravitate towards, but can't stroke the cue on that line comfortably or consistently?

You can put your eyes practically anywhere you want and you will get used to it. I am left eye dominant but now play with the cue centered between both eyes or even a bit to the inner corner of the right eye. In this position, the ob, cb and shaft of the cue all look in line and ARE in line, plus the take back of the stroke is in a comfortable place.

Hope that clarifies my point. I agree that there are many aspects to the game and they should all be given proper attention.

I am not an instructor, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just my experience over the last 25 years.
Thanks for the thoughful response. I understand what you are saying. I started playing pool again after a multi decade layoff, and I studied Mark Wilson's book, and I adopted his rigorous approach for learning the fundamentals, but I could not hit the center of the CB on straight in stop shots: the CB invariably stopped and spun counter clockwise. When I heard about the vision center concept and SightRight, I wondered if I was actually aiming at the center of the CB. I too am having issues with lining up my vision center and being able to cue comfortably because I am "cross dominant", which requires me to stand very close to my cue and crane my neck to the right to line up my vision center over the cue. So, I am still learning and tinkering with my stroke.

I have a question for you. Consider these two shots:

1. You set up an OB near the left long rail and the CB on the head spot and you cut the ball into the left corner pocket.
2. You set up an OB near the right long rail and the CB on the head spot and you cut the ball into the right corner pocket.

With your head position over your cue, do you see the same "amount of cut" for both those shots? Or, do you know from practice that you have to cut one of them fuller and one of them thinner to pocket the ball?
 
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wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Please, don't you have a table to gaff ?

Jayson, is a world class player, His accomplishments are incredible. Nobody denies what he's done.
I don't hate Jayson. I love his pace at the table, when he's free wheeling, and I enjoy watching him play.

What I hate seeing, is someone with rare talent, fall into the American lifestyle of obesity. Jayson is obese.
He's also young enough to nip it in the bud, before it gets out of control.

All you have to do, is watch some replays of Jayson, from 2018, and then watch the recent finals with FSR.
It's wearing him down.



All the talk about his game. There's nothing wrong with his game. Nothing.
As it appears it is true. You are jealous of him. Why don't you degaff your mouth.Your the only person mentioning his weight. I'm sure Jayson would tell you f--k off and don't act like your concerned and mind your own business. You are Def a tool and a extreme nit.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the insightful response. I understand what you are saying. I started playing pool again after a multi decade layoff, and I studied Mark Wilson's book, and I adopted his rigorous approach for learning the fundamentals, but I could not hit the center of the CB on straight in stop shots: the CB invariably stopped and spun counter clockwise. When I heard about the vision center concept and SightRight, I wondered if I was actually aiming at the center of the CB. I too am having issues with lining up my vision center and being able to cue comfortably because I am "cross dominant", which requires me to stand very close to my cue and crane my neck to the right to line up my vision center over the cue. So, I am still learning and tinkering with my stroke.
My journey started after I found out from two people telling me something about 3 years apart from each other. They both said my cue was not on the shot line and was cocked away from my body by maybe 1/4". I would have bet almost anything that they were wrong. Everything looked perfect and I couldn't understand. Long story short, I learned to compensate by bring my hand inward during the forward stroke. You really can't see much of the cue so all kinds of shenanigans can happen!

I decided to get my eyes and head in a position where I was able to hit a solid cue ball and follow the ob into the pocket. In essence, when you hit the cue ball on center and solidly, you can tell. The cue ball behaves differently. I tried to rework everything so that the alignment looked right and was right and, most importantly, delivered that solid feel.

I think there is probably more than one possible way to set up and maybe I'd have done just fine with Sightright.

I have a question for you. Consider these two shots:

1. You set up an OB near the left long rail and the CB on the head spot and you cut the ball into the left corner pocket.
2. You set up an OB near the right long rail and the CB on the head spot and you cut the ball into the right corner pocket.

With your head position over your cue, do you see the same "amount of cut" for both those shots? Or, do you know from practice that you have to cut one of them fuller and one of them thinner to pocket the ball?
The shot I use for this drill is cue ball on foot spot and ob on center spot. With a half ball hit the ob should drop in the corner pocket. Having an identifiable target like the edge of the ob reduces the variables. It's hard to answer a perception question but shooting in either direction is about the same. I can say confidently that if there is a difference it isn't major. This drill also showed me the importance of a RELAXED grip, at least for me. I didn't really know what a relaxed grip was until I worked on it. When I'm not relaxed I hit fat in one direction when I aim at the half ball. This complicates the issue because it looks like an aiming error when it really isn't. Talk about misdirection!

The laser also helped me learn which little movements were important and which were not. I pull the laser out from time to time but I find that I am on line most all the time. You might find these helpful, if not a bit long-winded:

 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was too short in my response. I'm saying that the concept of a "vision center" is not universally accepted as being critically important. Mark Wilson was mentioned. He does not advocate finding your "vision center" which also seems to mean different things to different people. I just don't think the concept has been hashed out thoroughly. What if you find the vision center, which most likely is the position you naturally gravitate towards, but can't stroke the cue on that line comfortably or consistently?

You can put your eyes practically anywhere you want and you will get used to it. I am left eye dominant but now play with the cue centered between both eyes or even a bit to the inner corner of the right eye. In this position, the ob, cb and shaft of the cue all look in line and ARE in line, plus the take back of the stroke is in a comfortable place.

Hope that clarifies my point. I agree that there are many aspects to the game and they should all be given proper attention.

I am not an instructor, so take that with a grain of salt. It's just my experience over the last 25 years.
Dan
The fact that where you “see straight “ ie ypur vision center
Is not under your dominant eye substantiates the
Concept that they are NOT the same thing
For sure to play well You need to be able to move the cue in a straight line consistently
But you also need to give your arm the correct target
I am not an instructor
Jmho
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
I’ve been working with this product for a few months so there some things I feel are worth clarifying.

Vision centre is core to sightright but it’s not the entire method. Most snooker coaches teach some variation on vision centre, and stepping inward to the shot isn’t unique to sightright. However, one of the differences is that sightright is much more prescriptive. Other coaches are fine with you having your foot on the line and leaning over, or standing a bit sideways, but sightright wants you standing square to every shot.

The goal is to provide a set of reference points to make sure you are executing consistently the same each time. So, standing square to the shot makes sure you can align the shot line to the correct part of your body, the cue in front of you is intended to help you determine you are standing square and also gets your grip hand in the correct position, etc. In terms of standing square while sighting, I personally find it easier to ensure that I am looking straight ahead without my head turned.

I think the method works great if followed to the letter so long as you already have a fairly square-ish stance. But I think for some of the more sideways pool stances, it might be hard to form those from a square starting position while keeping the shotline in your vision centre the entire time.

As to whether vision centre is necessary, I’d say it’s complicated. On the one hand, absolutely we see high level players who most likely aren’t aren’t aligning to their vision centre so you can get used to just about anything. But on the other hand vision centre is a bit more repeatable. With the little device, it’s easier for me to diagnose if I’m standing in the correct spot than if I’m aligned on some other weird way.

So I think it’s pretty good, it’s a bit of work to execute it exactly as they describe. It’s also not for everyone and of course I need to point out that you still need to be hitting the intended point on the cue ball.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dan

Is not under your dominant eye substantiates the
Concept that they are NOT the same thing
For sure to play well You need to be able to move the cue in a straight line consistently
But you also need to give your arm the correct target
I am not an instructor
Jmho
Maybe I explained it wrong. At first, it didn't look or feel straight, but it was straight as seen in the shot results. In surprisingly short time, it looked and felt right. Maybe there was an easier route for me to get there, but I'm good where I'm at now. My point is that "vision center" is not something that necessarily needs to be considered in order to achieve a straight delivery. I stand by my contention that it is not a comprehensively thought out concept. Of course ICBW.
 
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