Earl's Forced Follow Shot

[Flex]

Pat,

Thanks for reading my post afterwards that corrected the statement to read "follow stroke".

If you think there is no difference between a draw stroke, a follow stroke, and a stun stroke, then you either don't play much, or don't play well.

Pat just may be too much of a gentleman to call you out on your comment. Suffice it to say he plays a lot, and plays very well.

Flex

 

[Fatboy]

I tried this variations of this shot myself this afternoon using high, inside english. Despite numerous attempts, I wasn't quite able to get the cue ball to consistently go around the table as far as Earl did.

It takes a lot of force and spin to overcome the full hit on the object ball and make whitey dance around the table.

the "as far" part of the shot, is the hard part, earl shoots this shot effortlessly, at light speed

i'll reserve judgment on earl being a good coach for now, butif i had to guess i think he would make a great coach with some students and not other ones, if earl got the slightest feeling the student wasnt serious-game over earl wouldnt waste his time with a poor student, earl respects the game too much to not work with people who arnt 100% dedicated.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Earl seems like a good instructor from the video.

I was about to ay the exact same thing. Seems like a damn good instructor.

 

[unknownpro]

This shot is a hanger for me and Earl. You will never see Earl avoid this shot. He also will often hit them very slowly to move down or across the table. Someone should ask him if he changes his aim on this shot moving from very slow speed to very hard and from short distance to long. I don't. The stroke will vary for the cloth only, the aim is the same.

The higher you hit this ball the more the cueball will bounce off the object ball before starting forward and bounce wide after hitting the side rail before going down to the bottom rail. You hit it almost level to let it go straight to the side rail and catch fully to spin straight down and around the table.

It is just as easy to make like this as any other way.

unknownpro

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Pat just may be too much of a gentleman to call you out on your comment. Suffice it to say he plays a lot, and plays very well.

Flex

I used to talk with Pat here and there years ago on RSB. From what I heard, I could spot him the wild 7 and the break and still win 10 ahead.

Just what I heard, that's all. Not trying to bust Pat, but he should have read the post after the one he quoted when I corrected myself. That's all. Instead he points out "it's not a draw stroke" when I already corrected it to follow stroke.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If you think there is no difference between a draw stroke, a follow stroke, and a stun stroke, then you either don't play much, or don't play well.

Do you feel there is a difference between follow, draw and stun other than how high or low you need to hit on the cue ball?

 

[JoeyA]

Hal Houle - The Pivot English Master

Fatboy, I appreciate your posting this, as we all know you can really play, and it's a tough shot even for you.

If I may offer a suggestion on shooting this shot, which is very tough to pull off correctly. Maybe that's why Earl was showing exactly how to do it.

This shot combines several problems all in one and everything has to work right or it won't come off.

What I have found works for me is to shoot this shot with that awful stuff, back hand english. I find I'm able to deliver the cue ball to exactly the right spot on the object ball much more consistently than when shooting with conventional, parallel english. As the cue ball is really moving when it hits the object ball, and the angle into the corner pocket at that speed has to be pretty much dead on for the ball to pot, the back hand english way of aiming and stroking the shot has helped me get this down.

Once again, thanks for the post. Personally, I find it irritating when other posters continually belittle the posts of the original poster, and your post definitely helped put things in perspective. Rep to you, sir.

Flex

Flex, I think you have given the best answer for most of the players here on AZ. By applying the Follow-Side-Spin after you have lined up the shot with center ball (not parallel shifting but pivoting your back hand), it will make the shot easier for most people. Most would be surprised at how many professional pool players use this technique on occasion like this. Some professionals don't even think they are applying Pivot English when they are in fact doing exactly that. FTR, I don't recommend Pivot English for most shots but this is one that most people will have better results with.

Hal Houle was the biggest contributor of people using Pivot English and he caught the most heat for it and some of his other aiming systems.

Long live Hal Houle!
JoeyA

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Could you clarify the terminology you're using here. I'm familiar with inside and outside english, of course. But what is backhand english, parallel english and pivot english?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Could you clarify the terminology you're using here. I'm familiar with inside and outside english, of course. But what is backhand english, parallel english and pivot english?

Parallel english: to apply side spin to the cue ball, line the shot up for no side spin and then move the stick parallel to itself until you have the spin you want. If you know about squirt (also incorrectly called deflection), you know why this usually can't work.

Pivot english: Line the shot up for no side spin, and then pivot the stick about it's pivot point until the tip is as far out on the side of the cue ball as you want. Take some strokes along the new line and then come straight through to apply the spin. The pivot point is defined as the point on the stick where this kind of squirt compensation will give the right result.

Backhand english: this is pivot english with the bridge hand used as the pivot point. If you understand all the variables involved with using side spin, you understand why this method -- without lots of subconscious or conscious corrections -- usually won't work.

Aim-and-swoop: This is like backhand english except you never take straight strokes along the final line of the stick. Instead, on the final stroke you bring your back hand left or right to get right or left side spin.

The concept of a pivot point and/or backhand english first appeared in print about 200 years ago. There is a drawing about it from 1839 in the misc files on the www.sfbilliards.com web site.

 

[JoeyA]

Parallel english: to apply side spin to the cue ball, line the shot up for no side spin and then move the stick parallel to itself until you have the spin you want. If you know about squirt (also incorrectly called deflection), you know why this usually can't work.

Pivot english: Line the shot up for no side spin, and then pivot the stick about it's pivot point until the tip is as far out on the side of the cue ball as you want. Take some strokes along the new line and then come straight through to apply the spin. The pivot point is defined as the point on the stick where this kind of squirt compensation will give the right result.

Backhand english: this is pivot english with the bridge hand used as the pivot point. If you understand all the variables involved with using side spin, you understand why this method -- without lots of subconscious or conscious corrections -- usually won't work.

Aim-and-swoop: This is like backhand english except you never take straight strokes along the final line of the stick. Instead, on the final stroke you bring your back hand left or right to get right or left side spin.

The concept of a pivot point and/or backhand english first appeared in print about 200 years ago. There is a drawing about it from 1839 in the misc files on the www.sfbilliards.com web site.

Are you insinuating that Hal Houle never invented Back Hand English?
JoeyA

 

[Bob Jewett]

Are you insinuating that Hal Houle never invented Back Hand English?
JoeyA

Often the same thing is discovered by many people. Like Columbus and the Americas, which, as we all know, was discovered before him by Leif Ericson. Not to mention all the people who greeted both of them when they arrived. It's also possible that Hal was advising Edwin Kentfield when Ed was writing his book.

 

[JoeyA]

It's also possible that Hal was advising Edwin Kentfield when Ed was writing his book.

Geeze, I did not know that Hal Houle was that old. I mean I knew he was old but you're talking about the 1800's (when Ed Kentfield was alive). But hey, you have a lot more experience in these areas so if you say it was possible, I'll go along with you but you can bet the next time I talk with Hal, I'm going to ask him how old he is.
JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I used to talk with Pat here and there years ago on RSB. From what I heard, I could spot him the wild 7 and the break and still win 10 ahead.

Just what I heard, that's all. Not trying to bust Pat, but he should have read the post after the one he quoted when I corrected myself. That's all. Instead he points out "it's not a draw stroke" when I already corrected it to follow stroke.

I see you're still playing your grudge matches over the internet, Shawn. Ever tried it in person? That might make winning a little more difficult.

I'd be interested to know the essential differences between strokes for draw, follow and stun. For instance, what happens if you hit *above center* on the cue ball, but with a "draw stroke"? How would that differ from hitting above center with a "stun stroke" or a "follow stroke"?

pj
chgo

 

[Russ Chewning]

For instance, what happens if you hit *above center* on the cue ball, but with a "draw stroke"? How would that differ from hitting above center with a "stun stroke" or a "follow stroke"?

pj
chgo

LOL... ***Owned***

Russ