on this shot, i can make it 10 outta 10 times, but if i try the same shot with alot of bottom i always miss. So my question is, does bottom make the ball cut more, or less?
Hi Jsp. I mentioned in that thread some effects that a poster ("Cushioncrawler" on the CCB forum) has figured should be present, and that I wasn't sure how large these effects might be. A graph comparing them to the concomitant throw angle is here:jsp said:You just missed this thread...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=26535
The general consensus is that draw reduces throw. The jury is still out whether follow increases or reduces throw.
Jal said:... The "spin masse angle" is irrelevant here but is due to the fact that the object ball is constantly "climbiing up" the cloth fibres. So even if its english component is perfectly perpendicular to the slate, it's nevertheless at a slight angle, effectively, with respect to the cloth. I calculated this angle to be 0.58 deg for 100 speed cloth.
The physics predicts that the throw will be maximum if the cue ball doesn't have any draw or follow. That's because the firction between the cue ball and the object ball has a maximum total value when the balls are slipping against each other, and if the direction of that slip is all to the side, the throw will be largest. If there is draw or follow in addition to the sideways rubbing, the follow or draw will take up part of that maximum rubbing and there will be less of the rubbing to cause throw.yrraltsafone said:Center ball, is center ball, it would not matter if you cued high, middle or low, as long as the cue was level and the follow through was the same. ...
***************************************************Bob Jewett said:The physics predicts that the throw will be maximum if the cue ball doesn't have any draw or follow. That's because the firction between the cue ball and the object ball has a maximum total value when the balls are slipping against each other, and if the direction of that slip is all to the side, the throw will be largest. If there is draw or follow in addition to the sideways rubbing, the follow or draw will take up part of that maximum rubbing and there will be less of the rubbing to cause throw.
That's the theory, anyway. I'm not sure anyone has ever made a measurement of this. It's not so easy to prepare a cue ball with a known amount of spin and run it into an object ball at an exact location, speed and angle. You can get it close by hand -- you do all the time when shooting -- but to do it exactly needs some kind of fixturing.
Bob Jewett said:The physics predicts that the throw will be maximum if the cue ball doesn't have any draw or follow. That's because the firction between the cue ball and the object ball has a maximum total value when the balls are slipping against each other, and if the direction of that slip is all to the side, the throw will be largest. If there is draw or follow in addition to the sideways rubbing, the follow or draw will take up part of that maximum rubbing and there will be less of the rubbing to cause throw.
That's the theory, anyway. I'm not sure anyone has ever made a measurement of this. It's not so easy to prepare a cue ball with a known amount of spin and run it into an object ball at an exact location, speed and angle. You can get it close by hand -- you do all the time when shooting -- but to do it exactly needs some kind of fixturing.
So, in other words, I was originally correct...that follow does increase the effects of throw {pumping my fists in the air}.Jal said:...The "follow/draw masse angle" is due to the fact that the object ball's acquired spin axis (from the impact) is not initially normal to its direction of travel when there is either draw or follow on the cueball as well as some sideways throw due to cut angle and/or spin. Draw masse always decreases the apparent throw while follow masse increases it.
jsp said:Hey Jal...thanks for the response.
So, in other words, I was originally correct...that follow does increase the effects of throw {pumping my fists in the air}.
I understand these differences in throw between hitting with follow and draw are too minute to be practically compensated for (as opposed to side english), but the differences are there nonetheless.
I still have absolutely no idea what you mean by this. What do you mean exactly by "center ball". Be specific please.yrraltsafone said:**********************************************
The answer is, using a level cue, with a level follow through, the cue does not dip down, center ball is center ball, high, center or low.
goingproin07 said:on this shot, i can make it 10 outta 10 times, but if i try the same shot with alot of bottom i always miss. So my question is, does bottom make the ball cut more, or less?
Instead of using the cueball, shoot the same shot using a striped ball as the cueball. Be sure the stripe is perpendicular to the cloth. Upon shooting see if the the striped ball gives any indication of sidespin. Often what happens when someone uses draw it is possible to apply sidespin because the cue is not hitting the center of the ball. This could throw the object ball off it's intended path.
What also could be happening is you may be elevating the stick in trying to apply draw. If indeed you are and again you hit the stripe/cueball off center it will cause the ball to squirt off the intended path.