Efren or Allison?

[Opie]

No, what I am saying is that Efren's skills are so far advanced compared to other players is the reason he is the best. If he had a decent break in 9 ball he probably would have won the US Open every single time (slight exaggeration). Same reasoning for McCready. His knowledge is right up there with Efren, and should I throw Grady in there also(?). Everytime these guys take a s*it they loose more knowledge about pool than I ever had.

In one of the Accu-Stats tapes I have, it is either Reyes vs. Wetch or Reyes v.s Immonen (DCC 2004), Mark Wilson says something to the effect that "Reyes is so superior in every other facet of the game that his break appears to be his weakness because it is more on the level of an AVERAGE QUALITY PROFESSIONAL BREAK." I thought he made a good point. JMO.

 

[mmath3154]

Oh please!

I'm sure Efren can beat Allison in those games. But to make things really interesting, why don't we get Efren to play Allison in a snooker match?

I guess this would sort of even things out. Then we'll see who's really the better cue artist.

Next you'll be wanting them to shoot hoops? To think that Efren would loose to her in any "cue game" is a joke. That's like asking her to compete against him in three cushion billiards. Let me guess...you think she'll pocket more balls then she does on those TV basket pockets the women shoot on, if the table is bigger and the pockets are tighter? Get a grip and face reality. Maybe she's a better chess player, or poker player, or cricket player. Let's give her the respect she deserves against other women of her caliber and leave it at that. Efren vs. Allison? Dear God! Who do you like in Sigel vs. (sorry drew a blank) in the upcoming 8 ball match? Are you a betting man? I'll take Mike and your dough!

 

[vapoolplayer]

Thanks...

I was waiting for a couple of people from that area to chirp up to let her know what a shortstop level is. A shortstop is a word to describe a player just under pro level, but way above local A players. A shortstop putting a 6 on a player would not be uncommon. It is the same everywhere, understood the same everywhere.

she's probably also the type that describes "draw" as "low english".

if you're going to use terminology.........please know what it means.

VAP

 

[cuechick]

if you're going to use terminology.........please know what it means.

VAP

Hey here's an idea why don't you actually read the whole thread before you make a nasty remark?

I did not use this terminology in the first place I was trying to clarify it's meaning with the poster that did. And I am sorry Tina, it is just not the same every where. They have a weekly handicapped tournament at Mr. Cues in Atlanta and a Shortstop is between a B and an A. This is how it was explained to me when I specifically asked the tournament director, because I had never heard this term, before I moved to the south.
If you want to use my lack of knowledge of some pool slang as way of proving my points wrong, fine. What ever makes you feel smart and special.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Tina Pawloski

2 time regional tour winner, APA 7 and APA 9, and a female that in comparison plays like absolute shit compared to any one of the men I have listed above.

Yeah...but how do you stack up against Lou Ulrich and Sam Manole????

 

[BRKNRUN]

Good point and I actually agree with it. I know I just exaggerated a little when I described Efren's break. It was fun though and now I know who I can hustle when Allison plays Efren getting the best breaker in the world to break for her. I may not have $30,000, but I will still put some money down.

WW

With all due respect....You say If she had a designated breaker....You might want to add...designated kicker / banker / saftey player.......

Hell IF I had a better break / pocketed balls better / kicked better / played safe better and banked better ....I could beat Efren....

The problem is its all.....IF IF IF....

The real fact that seemed to be missed in all 8 pages of this thread is that Efren does not need a big break....... As soon as he figures out how to pocket 1 ball on the break (which is usually pretty quick) .......Match Over....

 

[sniper]

I'm sure Efren can beat Allison in those games. But to make things really interesting, why don't we get Efren to play Allison in a snooker match?

I guess this would sort of even things out. Then we'll see who's really the better cue artist.

I would love to see the two of them play some snooker, that would be awesome!

 

[girlwon1]

Yeah...but how do you stack up against Lou Ulrich and Sam Manole????

Well Hmmm...

Since Sammy's my good friend and Louis is my ex-boyfriend of 3 years (back 12 years ago) I probably wouldn't play either of them. I would expect that if I did, it would be the same outcome as the rest of them, lol. I do practice with Sammy some, but no real play for anything, just hitting them around.

As for cuechick, sorry you were told some bad information. If you would like to put the question out to the whole board, maybe that would answer the question for you also. Already, a couple have told you what the definition is in this thread, but whatever. And no, I am not using your lack of knowledge about a definition of a word as a way of proving your points wrong, one just has to read your posts to do that.

 

[sjm]

Hey here's an idea why don't you actually read the whole thread before you make a nasty remark?

I did not use this terminology in the first place I was trying to clarify it's meaning with the poster that did. And I am sorry Tina, it is just not the same every where. They have a weekly handicapped tournament at Mr. Cues in Atlanta and a Shortstop is between a B and an A. This is how it was explained to me when I specifically asked the tournament director, because I had never heard this term, before I moved to the south.
If you want to use my lack of knowledge of some pool slang as way of proving my points wrong, fine. What ever makes you feel smart and special.

To learn more about what a shortstop is, here's a thread that will be one year old on Monday.

http://azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=6844

 

[cuechick]

To learn more about what a shortstop is, here's a thread that will be one year old on Monday.

http://azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=6844

Thanks, very interesting, it seems there is a lot of debate on the subject and no real definitive answer... but at least your reply was helpful and not condescending. Much appreciated.

 

[girlwon1]

Thanks, very interesting, it seems there is a lot of debate on the subject and no real definitive answer... but at least your reply was helpful and not condescending. Much appreciated.

I am pretty sure no where in that thread it was mentioned that a shortstop was anywhere near the "B" level.

 

[cuechick]

I am pretty sure no where in that thread it was mentioned that a shortstop was anywhere near the "B" level.

Gee Tina, why don't you read the thread and find out?

 

[girlwon1]

Gee Tina, why don't you read the thread and find out?

I did, otherwise I wouldn't have written "no where in that thread" it was mentioned.....

 

[Hooked]

Forgive me if its been said, I can't read the whole thread in one sitting lol


Men are superior, IMO, only by our numbers in the pool rooms.

Lets say 1 out of 1000 serious players have a real chance as a world beater. Out of those 1000 serious players how many are women? Maybe 1 or 2, I guess.

Of those 1 or 2 women, what is there real chance of being great? Same as men, IMO. 1 in a 1000. Lets say there is 1000 serious players in each state (USA). That's 50,000 players in th US and only 100 of which are women. Out of our whole country, there is only 100 woman trying to be great when it takes 1 in a 1000 to do so. They only have 100 so there chances of producing a world beater is much smaller than the, already, almost, impossible odds. Thats why we rarely, if ever, see a woman who can really play. There is just not enough of them playing to beat the odds.


Women just don't hang out in pool rooms enough to even be a threat. And for those that do, they are running a futile race since the competition, men, have such a large lead.

Men dominate because it is a mans game. Women are looked down upon for obessing about pool like I do. Society won't let them climb the pool ladder easily. Too many obsticles for women. As far as I can tell, only one has risen to the top. She is no match for top men but she has my respect.


Look at the WPBA. The only reason they are world champions is because it is an exclusionary orginization. The local top women are a joke, when it comes to skill. They don't seem to know that though. We have a WPBA member who is a "C" player (she is a "A" looker though ). That, in itself, speaks volumes about the skill seperation between the sexes.

 

[cuechick]

I did, otherwise I wouldn't have written "no where in that thread" it was mentioned.....

Then you also know nowhere in that thread is ANY letter handicap mentioned, A, B or otherwise. This was the closest thing to a definition given: shortstop: A second-rank player who will beat most or all of the local room players but who will need weight from a touring pro.

Which sounds somewhat ambiguous to me and a subject over all that has left more than just I wondering.

So let me ask you this, since this was the original debate between Pete and I which started all this in the first place. Do you think if any of the top 16 women were allowed to play APA 8 Ball, would any be ranked below a 7? You are a 7? What do you think? Are some of these women 6's?
And just for the sake of accuracy here is a list of the top 16:

1 Allison Fisher
2 Karen Corr
3 Ga Young Kim
4*Kelly Fisher
5*Monica Webb
6 Gerda Hofstatter
7*Jeanette Lee
8*Helena Thornfeldt
9**Julie Kelly
10*Tiffany Nelson
11*Vivian Viareal
12*Melissa Herndon
13 Jennifer Barretta**
14*Jennifer Chen
15*Sarah Ellerby
16*Kim Shaw

 

[sjm]

Then you also know nowhere in that thread is ANY letter handicap mentioned, A, B or otherwise. This was the closest thing to a definition given: shortstop: A second-rank player who will beat most or all of the local room players but who will need weight from a touring pro.

Which sounds somewhat ambiguous to me and a subject over all that has left more than just I wondering.

So let me ask you this, since this was the original debate between Pete and I which started all this in the first place. Do you think if any of the top 16 women were allowed to play APA 8 Ball, would any be ranked below a 7? You are a 7? What do you think? Are some of these women 6's?
And just for the sake of accuracy here is a list of the top 16:

1 Allison Fisher
2 Karen Corr
3 Ga Young Kim
4*Kelly Fisher
5*Monica Webb
6 Gerda Hofstatter
7*Jeanette Lee
8*Helena Thornfeldt
9**Julie Kelly
10*Tiffany Nelson
11*Vivian Viareal
12*Melissa Herndon
13 Jennifer Barretta**
14*Jennifer Chen
15*Sarah Ellerby
16*Kim Shaw

Every single one of them should be a seven, as should a few others on the tour including Rousey, Dokovic and Little.

 

[Hooked]

I think Jennifer Barretta said she is an APA 6. I slap around APA sixes all day long lol. They are ok players but WILL ALWAYS give you control of the table and thus end up losing to a player who keeps a strong arm on the control of the table.

I'll give Jennifer Barretta some games on the wire in 8 ball and the 7 in 9 ball and give her anything she wants to make my ol lady look like her

 

[sjm]

I'll give Jennifer Barretta some games on the wire in 8 ball and the 7 in 9 ball and give her anything she wants to make my ol lady look like her

FYI, Jennifer plays comparably to the "A" players in the New York area.

Don't know whether she gives beauty lessons, LOL.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Just as a note:

Melissa Herndon plays in some USPPA tournaments in the Valley and Hollywood. Her rating is an 80, despite being in the top 16 on the WPBA (you can check for yourself at www.usppa.com/asps/database.htm).

Some of the other posters on here (Wayne, Oscar) are 100+ ; they'd give a few games on the wire to Melissa, and they're only shortstops. Max Eberle, house pro at Hollywood, is a 165 and would give Melissa something like 4 games in a race to 8.

Just same stats, anyway.

 

[cuechick]

I think Jennifer Barretta said she is an APA 6. I slap around APA sixes all day long lol. They are ok players but WILL ALWAYS give you control of the table and thus end up losing to a player who keeps a strong arm on the control of the table.

I'll give Jennifer Barretta some games on the wire in 8 ball and the 7 in 9 ball and give her anything she wants to make my ol lady look like her

Dude, Jenn was an APA 6 about 3 years ago, she would not be that handicapp now.