Efren's lifetime win-loss record vs Sigel, and vs Strickland. Any estimates or info?

arnaldo

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd estimate that he had lost as many as he won against Sigel,
. . . and had won more matches than he lost against Strickland.

I've gotten curious, because I see a lot of uninformed YT rants on the subject of Efren's 20 years of frequent matches against both Mike and Earl, whether the discussion is about 8-, or 9-ball, or even Efren's relatively rare 14.1 matchups against Mike or Earl.

Arnaldo
 
I’m interested also.
Gotta feeling Sigel is ahead at 9-ball
 
arnaldo said:
I'd estimate that he had lost as many as he won against Sigel,
. . . and had won more matches than he lost against Strickland.

I've gotten curious, because I see a lot of uninformed YT rants on the subject of Efren's 20 years of frequent matches against both Mike and Earl, whether the discussion is about 8-, or 9-ball, or even Efren's relatively rare 14.1 matchups against Mike or Earl.

Arnaldo
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I wouldn't be surprised if Sigel and Strickland both have winning records against Efren in tournament play. In fact, I'd be more surprised if they didn't.
 
arnaldo said:
I'd estimate that he had lost as many as he won against Sigel,
. . . and had won more matches than he lost against Strickland.

I've gotten curious, because I see a lot of uninformed YT rants on the subject of Efren's 20 years of frequent matches against both Mike and Earl, whether the discussion is about 8-, or 9-ball, or even Efren's relatively rare 14.1 matchups against Mike or Earl.

Arnaldo
Click to expand...

There are two guaranteed YouTube comments you will see, the one where Efren is the best, usually started by someone form the Philipnes, and the one about snooker players, started by those that don't play pool. Both are equally bad to read.

Eferen is probably as even as anyone else with the top players of his day, not just those two, Archer, Hall, etc... are all in the mix with him. Yes he has some amazing games and shots, but as far as head to head, it's even enough to them all to be a silly argument. It's like Ferrari vs Lamborghini, sure at some point one car is "better" or "faster" but both are great fun to play around with. Does it really matter if some guy beat some other guy 25-21 over their lifetime? I doubt it. I also doubt that any of them have twice as many wins or even a large majority of wins like 12-20 over the other. I'm sure they are all within 20-25% of each other.
 
I'm not a historian but off the top of my head Earl beat Efren in the US Open 9 ball finals. Efren beat Earl in the Sands Regency event with the "Z shot". Efren beat Earl in the Maine 14.1 event.

Efren beat Mike in the IPT event and Efren beat Mike in the 2000 U S Open 14.1 event.

I'm guessing Earl and Efren have played more often than Mike and Efren because Efren wasn't spending a lot of time in American tournaments when Mike was competing full time.
 
alstl said:
I'm not a historian but off the top of my head Earl beat Efren in the US Open 9 ball finals. Efren beat Earl in the Sands Regency event with the "Z shot". Efren beat Earl in the Maine 14.1 event.

Efren beat Mike in the IPT event and Efren beat Mike in the 2000 U S Open 14.1 event.

I'm guessing Earl and Efren have played more often than Mike and Efren because Efren wasn't spending a lot of time in American tournaments when Mike was competing full time.
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Efren considered Mike to be the best American player. Pretty sure there’s a reason for that.
What doesn’t get mentioned much is that Nick Varner beat Efren on Efren’s turf....and didn’t get a rematch!
 
WildWing said:
Sigel is ahead in nine ball, and wipes the floor with the other two in 14.1.
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Efren has only played in two 14.1 iirc.
He won in Portland, Maine. Beat Wiley in the finals.
Lost to Souquet in the finals in NY .
I think Sigel is ahead of Efren in 9-ball matches . So is Earl.
This matches were before Simonis cloth became popular.
Efren just did not have the break and power stroke by those two greats.
 
pt109 said:
Efren considered Mike to be the best American player. Pretty sure there’s a reason for that.
What doesn’t get mentioned much is that Nick Varner beat Efren on Efren’s turf....and didn’t get a rematch!
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Efren got his revenge against Varner by beating him in the 1994 US Open final.
 
pt109 said:
Efren considered Mike to be the best American player. Pretty sure there’s a reason for that.
What doesn’t get mentioned much is that Nick Varner beat Efren on Efren’s turf....and didn’t get a rematch!
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Mike is the one player I hated to see retire more than anybody. I understand why he did but he was such a great player to watch.

In his interview yesterday at the U S Open Earl said today's players aren't better than the guys he used to compete against but there are more of them today. That's because of the international field and the first guy to plow that turf in the big event was Efren.
 
I did a quick tally from the Accu-Stats newsletters I have from 1985 to 1987, and here's what I found:

Efren and Sigel played six times, with Sigel winning five.
Efren and Earl played four times, with Efren winning three.
Efren and Varner played six times, with Varner winning five.

These were all 9-ball matches, races to 9 or 11.

Varner of course also traveled to the Philippines in 1990 to play Efren a race to 60, and won 60-47.
 
alstl said:
Mike is the one player I hated to see retire more than anybody. I understand why he did but he was such a great player to watch.
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I've said it before and I'll continue saying it, Sigel wouldve had a field day torturing todays players with his safety game. Not to say that todays players cant play safe and would not be able to get out of them thanks to the jump cue, but Sigel won so many games off of his safety play alone.

On a side note, sorta sad to hear Strickland say what he said. Reminded me that the old guard is gone and retired from pool or moved on tot he next life. Geez, someone seriously needs to put together some sort of legends of pocket billiards event for players from the 70s, 80s and 90s already.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Efren has only played in two 14.1 iirc.
He won in Portland, Maine. Beat Wiley in the finals.
Lost to Souquet in the finals in NY .
I think Sigel is ahead of Efren in 9-ball matches . So is Earl.
This matches were before Simonis cloth became popular.
Efren just did not have the break and power stroke by those two greats.
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Close. The finals in 2000, NY, was Souquet and Min Wai Chin, not Efren. I could look it up, but I believe Efren would have lost to either Souquet or Chin in the semi finals.

All the best,
WW
 
WildWing said:
Close. The finals in 2000, NY, was Souquet and Min Wai Chin, not Efren. I could look it up, but I believe Efren would have lost to either Souquet or Chin in the semi finals.

All the best,
WW
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Efren lost to Ralf 150-39.
 
WildWing said:
Close. The finals in 2000, NY, was Souquet and Min Wai Chin, not Efren. I could look it up, but I believe Efren would have lost to either Souquet or Chin in the semi finals.

All the best,
WW
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He lost to Ralf. Efren was one rack away from going 150 and out on Dallas West iirc. But, Robles had the high run in that tourney .
 
WildWing said:
. . . I believe Efren would have lost to either Souquet or Chin in the semi finals.

All the best,
WW
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Efren did lose to Souquet during those NYC year-2000 US Open semis. I saw it in-person. After some safety exchanges with Efren and some points scored, Souquet ran out with one of the most beautiful 120 runs ever captured on video (by Accu-Stats). For years I often re-watched that particular inspiring video a few days before competing in many of my 14.1 tournaments. What a calm, meticulous, measured man Souquet is when he plays 14.1.

Arnaldo
 
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