Efren's Stroke Analysis (Part 2)

mosconiac

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
Everyone has seen the "Efren Reyes Stroke Analysis" video on Youtube...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyCdVbHcPpA

While at the 2007 DCC, I decided to add footage of Efren, Ralf, & Corey and share it with you all.

Efren from the side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INzRX2mf2nw

Efren from the rear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDoGDojBzRM

Ralf from the rear#1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdwHgXpxQqA

Ralf from the rear#2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGSy85Chc3Q

Corey from the side:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGs5cF9oE1A
 
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Corey's is pretty interesting. I didn't realize how...short it was? I dunno, very little movement, even on the backswing.

Thanks for posting these.
 
It's impossible to deny Efren's dominance in pocket billiards, but I have to admit....I wouldn't recommend a beginner emulate his stroke. His has been refined over 40+ years of changing conditions, and he uses maximum English on a lot of shots. Someone like Thorsten or Mika has a more reproducible stroke to try to emulate.

edit* Ralph's is very good too. Very methodic, yet simple and relaxed.
 
I wouldn't recommend Efren's stroke either. too much movement on the backswing! the one you should be looking for is how and where he hits the CB upon impact. this guy uses an extreme amount of English due to his unorthodox style of playing. not your ordinary methodical pool player.
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
this guy uses an extreme amount of English due to his unorthodox style of playing. not your ordinary methodical pool player.
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I don't think his style is unorthodox at all, and I don't think he uses spin because of his style. We all know he learned and came up on slow wet tables creating the style and use of spin. Also his back ground in billiards determines his shot selection.

I try to style my game after his, and I feel most comfortable playing that way. I tried for 2 years to play a "snoooker" style and almost quit forever:)

The best thing I have learned trying to copy Efren is he uses spin instead of power to move the CB around........which makes the pockets BIGGER! :) this one concept has helped my game more than any, though it's not for everyone.

Gerry
 
You are right that you can be easily fooled by the "unecessary" movement Efren displays in his stroke, but careful analysis will review clues to why he is the great player he is.

Do you notice his loose grip & wrist alignment, his careful approach of the tip to the CB during his practice strokes, his perfect repetition of his pre-stroke routine (even on trivial shots), his smooth follow-through, his carefully placed pauses to better feel the shot....so you can see, there is much for a beginner to emulate.
 
Another subtle item that can go unnoticed. Although Efren has the ability to use extreme english, you rarely see the CB continue to spin afters it leaves the final rail. He uses just enough to get the CB where he wants it without adding needless spin (which would reduce accuracy). My CB, on the contrary, will often continue to spin after it leaves the final rail and sometimes after it has stopped rolling. Watch the pros carefully and you will pick up some secrets.
 
Gerry said:
I don't think his style is unorthodox at all, and I don't think he uses spin because of his style. We all know he learned and came up on slow wet tables creating the style and use of spin. Also his back ground in billiards determines his shot selection.

I try to style my game after his, and I feel most comfortable playing that way. I tried for 2 years to play a "snoooker" style and almost quit forever:)

The best thing I have learned trying to copy Efren is he uses spin instead of power to move the CB around........which makes the pockets BIGGER! :) this one concept has helped my game more than any, though it's not for everyone.

Gerry
Click to expand...

Did you just repeat what I said? :D
 
mosconiac said:
Another subtle item that can go unnoticed. Although Efren has the ability to use extreme english, you rarely see the CB continue to spin afters it leaves the final rail. He uses just enough to get the CB where he wants it without adding needless spin (which would reduce accuracy). My CB, on the contrary, will often continue to spin after it leaves the final rail and sometimes after it has stopped rolling. Watch the pros carefully and you will pick up some secrets.
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Is that the dreaded kill shot? speaking of which, that kind shot is very difficult to execute especially if the kill shot had gone some rails and which point the CB stops spinning! the only game that I was only successful to perform such shot is in bowling (without the rails of course)! :D
 
For a begginner Buddy Hall is a great player to watch, just a plane jane stroke that works(Real Good),

That fancy Efren stroke was devloped over 40 years + and he was born with a gift, it isnt something to use as a rerferance, its for him.
 
Thank you for posting those links... I had always heard to keep your wrist loose (especially on draw shots), but never realized how loose the pros wrists really were during the stroke. Been messing around with it, and seems to help alot when I have to put some real power behind the stroke.
 
mosconiac said:
You are right that you can be easily fooled by the "unecessary" movement Efren displays in his stroke, but careful analysis will review clues to why he is the great player he is.

Do you notice his loose grip & wrist alignment, his careful approach of the tip to the CB during his practice strokes, his perfect repetition of his pre-stroke routine (even on trivial shots), his smooth follow-through, his carefully placed pauses to better feel the shot....so you can see, there is much for a beginner to emulate.
Click to expand...
FROM UP CLOSE

Like many I'm a big fan of Efren in part because of how he can and does play, but also for how he treats people. I haven't seen him play much in person so I'll ask- does it seem to you that on some soft 'Kill' shots that he appears to decelerate stroking thru the ball- to be almost slowly pushing the ball (keep tip on the ball longer)? as opposed to 'striking' the ball where the ball leaves the tip immediately?
 
would love to see same applied to Bustamante's stroke. Not for the sake of trying to copy it but just to have a slow-mo from behind (and side)
 
I believe a big part of the reason that Reyes is so dominant is how loose he is round the table. You watch how he moves, how he gets down on the shot, how he strokes and how he moves around a bit during his stroking motion. He's very, very relaxed; and relaxed goes well with pool.

Some poolplayers try too hard to remain perfectly still. They become stiff and robotic like, which can be a good thing or a bad thing. As much as Efren moves, his bridge hand is planted and his cueing line is steady. All the other upward movement doesn't really affect his stroke, maybe even helps him free up his arm for more follow through.

The best players are the ones who look like they have a few drinks in them. Next time you watch a match where one guy is dominating and the other is tanking, watch how they're moving around the table. If a guy is losing badly but still loosey goosey, I favor him to come back. If he's stiff and robotic like, he's done for.

Personally, when I'm playing well, I'm loose and using a very long bridge. The days I'm playing poorly are the days when I'm just not feeling it and I start trying to go back to "textbook fundamentals".

When I catch myself doing that, I just start using a longer bridge and my game comes right back like someone flicked a switch. :)
 
Not sure if I completely agree with this. I think Thorsten always looks so robotic. I think it's a "different strokes for different folks" sort of thing. It definitely works for Efren and Busty though. They remain so calm and loose. I'm sure it also helps from getting too upset at the table.

Klopek said:
I believe a big part of the reason that Reyes is so dominant is how loose he is round the table. You watch how he moves, how he gets down on the shot, how he strokes and how he moves around a bit during his stroking motion. He's very, very relaxed; and relaxed goes well with pool.

Some poolplayers try too hard to remain perfectly still. They become stiff and robotic like, which can be a good thing or a bad thing.

The best players are the ones who look like they have a few drinks in them. ...If a guy is losing badly but still loosey goosey, I favor him to come back. If he's stiff and robotic like, he's done for.
Click to expand...
 
3RAILKICK said:
FROM UP CLOSE

Like many I'm a big fan of Efren in part because of how he can and does play, but also for how he treats people. I haven't seen him play much in person so I'll ask- does it seem to you that on some soft 'Kill' shots that he appears to decelerate stroking thru the ball- to be almost slowly pushing the ball (keep tip on the ball longer)? as opposed to 'striking' the ball where the ball leaves the tip immediately?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Hard to understand how delicately he kills the ball using that stroke.
 
guys, work the wrist! it keeps your stroke from getting stiff. tell me what can you say about it when you try it.
 
Seen some video demos by the taiwanese whereby how a flexible but not loose wrist can work wonders for difficult positional plays, one of which is the soft drag shot.
 
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