Elbow drop AFTER contact..? Help? Vids uploaded

ddadams

ddadams

Absolutely love this cue.
Silver Member
So I've really, really been putting in table time after my lessons with Scott Lee and it just kind of struck me the other week.

I didn't use my wrist nearly as much as I should, and it was kind of like an epiphany.

However I've noticed that my follow through has seemingly gotten longer but feels more fluid, but after video taping myself doing 9 shots over and over, I've noticed that with the added wrist movement, there's elbow drop after contact.

Scott told me this wasn't an issue AFTER contact as long as it was consistent and by the look of how SVB and the other pros I see with "good" stroke fundamentals they all seem to have a drop?


I've made two videos.

They mostly go with 9 shots, 3 soft (top, center, low) 3 medium, 3 hard.

I threw in a couple extras because I was upset with the way that I hit the ball and I apologize for adding more on some.


The first video is "with" elbow drop after contact and me really focusing on utilizing my wrist and following all the way through to my breast for a finish position.

The second is my 'old' stroke with less wrist movement and less "drop" after contact.


I can do both right now very regularly but I need to know... Which way should I actually practice and only use???


I'm leaning towards the "with elbow drop" video stroke. It just seems more fluid when I'm actually playing...

For the inevitable questions as to what's on the end of my stick it's the 3rd eye stroke trainer from Joe Tucker.


With
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNsgbYmcRL8&feature=youtu.be

"without"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEcnvamDV9E&feature=youtu.be
 
I realize I do drop my elbow in both, but the one is around 1.5"-2" and the other is maybe 4-5
 
I think your stroke looks decent either way. It was hard to focus on what little bit of elbow drop or wrist action you might have when it appears as though you might be bridging at nearly 15". You may not be bridging that far.. it's the angle of your camera.

It appears as though your back hand is forward pressed and with that long of a bridge length, you must drop your elbow before contact a hair or let the cue slide a ways.

I'd like to see a different angle where you can see more of the table and watch you run some balls. Elbow drop pre or post contact...you look very consistent and that's all that matters... that's why it'd be good to see you hit some balls with a better angle ao we can see the cb and ob.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I think your stroke looks decent either way. It was hard to focus on what little bit of elbow drop or wrist action you might have when it appears as though you might be bridging at nearly 15". You may not be bridging that far.. it's the angle of your camera.

It appears as though your back hand is forward pressed and with that long of a bridge length, you must drop your elbow before contact a hair or let the cue slide a ways.

I'd like to see a different angle where you can see more of the table and watch you run some balls. Elbow drop pre or post contact...you look very consistent and that's all that matters... that's why it'd be good to see you hit some balls with a better angle ao we can see the cb and ob.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...



I'll make another video for you tomorrow then.


Pretty good guesstimate.... My bridge length is 15" lol.

Originally we went with 16" then to 14" but I have since settled in the middle.


Thanks by the way, I do try and be extremely consistent and don't even play anymore but once a week. I practice and do stroke drills every day 3-6 hours right now however.


I don't care to start playing regularly until my fundamentals are ROCK solid.


The big thing I'm working on right now is aligning 100% proper on each shot so no micro adjustments need to be made once I drop down on the shot.


I've only been playing about a year and a half but for the last year and a half I've been dropping down and adjusting to the line of the shot after the fact. The last two or three weeks I've been getting rid of that habit and have noticed a rather significant improvement.
 
/In before hijack.

Like Spidey said, you're fairly consistent with both so I would go with whichever one you prefer, and that sounds like the elbow drop.

There is a little trick you can do (I'd suggest only when practicing) to make sure you are dropping after contact, and to get the timing down. Set up very easy shots, and look at the CB when you stroke. This can make it easier to determine if you are actually dropping the elbow after contact. I say only when practicing, because I myself, prefer to look at the OB.
 
Also, any serious advice to go beyond just a 'decent' and ' fairly' consistent stroke to an 'awesome' stroke would be greatly appreciated obviously.

I am aiming for as perfect as I can get... Believe me when I say that I'll put whatever table time in needed.
 
ddadams said:
I'll make another video for you tomorrow then.


Pretty good guesstimate.... My bridge length is 15" lol.

Originally we went with 16" then to 14" but I have since settled in the middle.


Thanks by the way, I do try and be extremely consistent and don't even play anymore but once a week. I practice and do stroke drills every day 3-6 hours right now however.


I don't care to start playing regularly until my fundamentals are ROCK solid.


The big thing I'm working on right now is aligning 100% proper on each shot so no micro adjustments need to be made once I drop down on the shot.


I've only been playing about a year and a half but for the last year and a half I've been dropping down and adjusting to the line of the shot after the fact. The last two or three weeks I've been getting rid of that habit and have noticed a rather significant improvement.
Click to expand...


I'm wondering why you chose a 15 inch bridge length. Why so long? Have you studied other players? What players do you know who have a bridge length that long?
 
FranCrimi said:
I'm wondering why you chose a 15 inch bridge length. Why so long? Have you studied other players? What players do you know who have a bridge length that long?
Click to expand...

This is just what I have always really gone to... It's very comfortable and doesn't seem to give me any issues...
 
You had a lesson with Scott. So, I know what he went over with you. Before I tell you my opinion on which way you should go, I want you to utilize the money you spent and have you tell me what you see wrong in the videos. What did Scott go over with you (and I know he did) that you haven't incorporated into your stroke yet?

This will be an ongoing thread for a little while, but, in the end, you will have learned what Scott taught you.
 
Neil said:
Wrong, we will talk about it in another post after you answer a few questions first.;)
Click to expand...

Scott said it was fine, to answer one of your questions and it isn't exactly uncomfortable so I'm not wrong about that little part.


What am I not incorporating? Honestly all I see that I am doing wrong from his lessons is raising my head.
 
ddadams said:
Scott said it was fine, to answer one of your questions and it isn't exactly uncomfortable so I'm not wrong about that little part.


What am I not incorporating? Honestly all I see that I am doing wrong from his lessons is raising my head.
Click to expand...

1. I suggest you view the video hitting play/pause button as fast as you can. Doing that, you pretty much freeze frame a lot of the action that you would miss otherwise. Also, you can take a sheet of paper, and hold it on the screen even with your cue to check for level.

2. You will see that at ball address, your forearm is not ninety degrees to the floor, but is extended forward a ways.

3. I could be wrong on this one, it's a little hard to see for sure- At ball address, your tip is a ways from the cb.

4. Elbow drop after contact won't affect anything. You are dropping your elbow before contact.

5. You are raising up.

That's the major things for now. Now I will go over each one, and explain what is happening when you do that.

2. I don't know if you followed the recent pendulum threads, but there was some good info brought forward in them. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=331440
Notice that the cue will take a sudden dip. This occurs because the back-hand is coming up, so the tip has to go down.

When you start forward of 90 deg., you either have to drop your elbow, or your tip will dive too soon. When you advance the film, you will see that your tip does indeed start to dip before contact with the cb. Thereby, you are hitting the cb lower than you think you are.

If you start out at 90 degrees, you will hit the cb in what is termed the "sweet spot". In your case, that would mean that you would have to hold the cue at the very end. Or, you could simply move everything forward on the cue and not have such a long bridge. The long bridge is causing you to compensate where you hold the cue, and in turn hit the cb lower than you intend to.

3. It appears that at ball address, you are a ways away from the cb. When your arm is at 90 deg., you want the tip right at the ball. That is where you want to make contact. Right at the bottom of the pendulum or just before the bottom. NOT after. View the charts in the thread supplied to understand the why better if you don't already.

4. You are dropping your elbow before contact both on the backswing, and the forward stroke. That's fine if you are going for a piston type stroke. However, I don't believe you are. By doing that, you are losing control and accuracy on your hit on the cb.

5. Raising up. I'm sure you know what that does. It essentially changes your stance in mid stroke. You lose accuracy that way.

My hat is off to you on wanting to do things the right way. You will find that the tips I gave you will give you a little more consistency. That is what it is all about. Doing our best to do the same thing the same way each time. That is what makes a great stroke. That's all a great stroke really is- hitting the cb where we want to, and at the speed we want to. While there are many different ways to get there, I believe that what you are learning is the easiest and most accurate way to get there. Good luck on your journey, and I hope this was of some help to you.

I've got another video uploading right now, later this evening or tomorrow you can "rip me one" if you want.:D
 
Neil said:
1. I suggest you view the video hitting play/pause button as fast as you can. Doing that, you pretty much freeze frame a lot of the action that you would miss otherwise. Also, you can take a sheet of paper, and hold it on the screen even with your cue to check for level.

2. You will see that at ball address, your forearm is not ninety degrees to the floor, but is extended forward a ways.

3. I could be wrong on this one, it's a little hard to see for sure- At ball address, your tip is a ways from the cb.

4. Elbow drop after contact won't affect anything. You are dropping your elbow before contact.

5. You are raising up.

That's the major things for now. Now I will go over each one, and explain what is happening when you do that.

2. I don't know if you followed the recent pendulum threads, but there was some good info brought forward in them. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=331440
Notice that the cue will take a sudden dip. This occurs because the back-hand is coming up, so the tip has to go down.

When you start forward of 90 deg., you either have to drop your elbow, or your tip will dive too soon. When you advance the film, you will see that your tip does indeed start to dip before contact with the cb. Thereby, you are hitting the cb lower than you think you are.

If you start out at 90 degrees, you will hit the cb in what is termed the "sweet spot". In your case, that would mean that you would have to hold the cue at the very end. Or, you could simply move everything forward on the cue and not have such a long bridge. The long bridge is causing you to compensate where you hold the cue, and in turn hit the cb lower than you intend to.

3. It appears that at ball address, you are a ways away from the cb. When your arm is at 90 deg., you want the tip right at the ball. That is where you want to make contact. Right at the bottom of the pendulum or just before the bottom. NOT after. View the charts in the thread supplied to understand the why better if you don't already.

4. You are dropping your elbow before contact both on the backswing, and the forward stroke. That's fine if you are going for a piston type stroke. However, I don't believe you are. By doing that, you are losing control and accuracy on your hit on the cb.

5. Raising up. I'm sure you know what that does. It essentially changes your stance in mid stroke. You lose accuracy that way.

My hat is off to you on wanting to do things the right way. You will find that the tips I gave you will give you a little more consistency. That is what it is all about. Doing our best to do the same thing the same way each time. That is what makes a great stroke. That's all a great stroke really is- hitting the cb where we want to, and at the speed we want to. While there are many different ways to get there, I believe that what you are learning is the easiest and most accurate way to get there. Good luck on your journey, and I hope this was of some help to you.

I've got another video uploading right now, later this evening or tomorrow you can "rip me one" if you want.:D
Click to expand...


I'm on my phone and will fully reply later but you actually cannot see my tip because of the third eye I have attached, so how are you able to see this?


I've watched it in super slow motion and seen early contact once or twice...?
 
ddadams said:
I'm on my phone and will fully reply later but you actually cannot see my tip because of the third eye I have attached, so how are you able to see this?


I've watched it in super slow motion and seen early contact once or twice...?
Click to expand...

Guestimating....some shots can see the edge of the third eye at the cb. That would mean that your tip is a ways back from that. Can also see the back edge of the third eye sometimes, and judge from that.
 
Neil said:
Guestimating....some shots can see the edge of the third eye at the cb. That would mean that your tip is a ways back from that. Can also see the back edge of the third eye sometimes, and judge from that.
Click to expand...

What is the longest you would say for a bridge length that's appropriate, in your opinion?


I use a lot of different bridge lengths depending on the shot but when I'm just going to 'default' I use this. I use this on a majority of shots because it works for me. Its comfortable. I'm not wrong about it being comfortable but if I try those 6-8" bridges I can't see the shot as well. I guess I use my shaft to confirm my line of aim.
 
ddadams said:
What is the longest you would say for a bridge length that's appropriate, in your opinion?


I use a lot of different bridge lengths depending on the shot but when I'm just going to 'default' I use this. I use this on a majority of shots because it works for me. Its comfortable. I'm not wrong about it being comfortable but if I try those 6-8" bridges I can't see the shot as well. I guess I use my shaft to confirm my line of aim.
Click to expand...

Where your forearm is 90 degrees to the floor, and you aren't gripping the cue at the very end (real tall guys may have to grip at the end anyways)......and....no longer than you can keep the cue going straight and where you want it too. The closer you are, the more accuracy you will have. I recently moved mine up some, didn't take long at all to get used to it.
 
Use the length that works the best for you, not someone else.

randyg




ddadams said:
What is the longest you would say for a bridge length that's appropriate, in your opinion?


I use a lot of different bridge lengths depending on the shot but when I'm just going to 'default' I use this. I use this on a majority of shots because it works for me. Its comfortable. I'm not wrong about it being comfortable but if I try those 6-8" bridges I can't see the shot as well. I guess I use my shaft to confirm my line of aim.
Click to expand...
 
randyg said:
Use the length that works the best for you, not someone else.

randyg
Click to expand...

Yeah I think that's just what I'm going to have to do.


I'm at the pool hall right now trying to make a video with a 10" bridge length and it is NOT happening
 
ddadams said:
Yeah I think that's just what I'm going to have to do.


I'm at the pool hall right now trying to make a video with a 10" bridge length and it is NOT happening
Click to expand...

I'm all in favor of your doing what's best for you, but 15 inches??
 
ddadams said:
Yeah I think that's just what I'm going to have to do.


I'm at the pool hall right now trying to make a video with a 10" bridge length and it is NOT happening
Click to expand...

Just try and make sure your arm is at 90 deg. to the floor. After that, go with what length you can still be accurate at.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top