Elbow drop or not?

pwrman said:
he no longer can talk about objective subjectice
appears the Randy PBIA thing has replaced it
there is a medical term for this i think
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should open your eye & try to see the truth of matters.

All I did was to ask a simple question.

For asking a simple question that should have a SIMPLE answer...

I was 'attacked' for doing so. Apparently that simple question does not have a simple explanation.

I have also stated several times now in multiple threads that once Randy made it clear that he will not be providing any explanation, at least not here & now, the matter is basically closed, unless someone else again opens the door.

But... it now seems that the very ones that got upset about a simple question are the same ones that will NOT let the matter be closed.

Does that not strike you as odd?

All Best Wishes for You & Yours & All.
 
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Scott Lee said:
What is odd is that you're still here...after derailing yet another thread. :(

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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It was NOT me that derailed this thread nor other threads.

I would hazard a guess that you know why Randy is no longer on the board, but I do NOT see you providing any simple explanation.

I know, that is not for you to do, blah, blah, blah,

But if the explanation is a simple one, I would think that it would be okay for you to provide it.

My question has not poisoned anything as another suggested.

It's the refusal to provide a simple answer to a simple question that has poisoned the air with something that seems to perhaps stink.

AND it is NOT me that is not letting it be closed down.

All Best Wises for ALL.
 
Rick,
Here's a simple answer to your simple question. PBIA instructors serve in various areas in support of the organization. None of those are for life!
Can we put an end to this discussion now? As Randy so eloquently put it, since you are not part of the organization,, what goes on specifically really is none of your business.
Steve
 
pooltchr said:
Rick,
Here's a simple answer to your simple question. PBIA instructors serve in various areas in support of the organization. None of those are for life!
Can we put an end to this discussion now? As Randy so eloquently put it, since you are not part of the organization,, what goes on specifically really is none of your business.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

At least that is a civil & somewhat polite effort. Thank You for that.

Randy has refused to give an explanation & that basically closed the matter as far as I am concerned, at least until & if someone else opens the door.

But I do not think your explanation is the entirety of the matter or why would not that simple explanation have been given.

Are there limits to how long one can serve on the board? Did Randy reach that restriction? If so, then it would have been a simple explanation that could very easily have been given. Did not Randy & Scott start serving on the board at the same time?

I could say more but some of it would be repetitive.

I just say that my curiosity has been transformed into a bit of ambiguous suspicion given all of the hullabaloo over what was just a simple question that could have had a simple answer of explanation as you pointed out.

Best Wishes for You & Yours... & All.

PS I was a Maritime Investigator for about 10 years. Perhaps my inquisitive nature & background there are why I am always ready for something that does not readily meet the eye.
 
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You must have been a very poor investigator Rick...and you're an even worse "pool detective". Whatever would give you the idea that Randy and I began serving on the board at the same time? :rotflmao1:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

ENGLISH! said:
Are there limits to how long one can serve on the board? Did Randy reach that restriction? If so, then it would have been a simple explanation that could very easily have been given. Did not Randy & Scott start serving on the board at the same time?

.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
You must have been a very poor investigator Rick...and you're an even worse "pool detective". Whatever would give you the idea that Randy and I began serving on the board at the same time? :rotflmao1:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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It seems you are not even capable of recognizing a question even when there is a question mark behind it.

Making posts simply in order to ELICIT an emotional response is a definition of an INTERNET TROLL.

That description fits 'all' of your posts regarding me.

You also do not seem capable of recognizing the harm that you do to yourself whenever you make such posts.

That said, I do not recall anyone ever saying that you are a wise man of high intellect.

So... you make another trolling post about me & I respond. You do it again & I respond. What time is your bed time & how long do you want to play these childish games that you start & at what time do you want to start them tomorrow?

All Best Wishes for ALL.

PS I think an individual like myself that has tested just under the genius level for IQ several times knows the difference between an illicit activity & making posts to elicit an emotion response. I certainly do... but, I was taught to spell phonetically & did not study spelling very much or well as I had little interest in it & I took Calculus, Trigonometry, & Physics in H.S & did not take typing. Also, many of us do not speak the most phonetically correct english down here in the South.
 
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Well Rick, at least I have good command of the English language. That means I know what to say to get my point across...accurately and effectively.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

ENGLISH! said:
Making posts simply in order to illicit an emotional response is a definition of an INTERNET TROLL. I think you mean elicit...instead of illicit. Illicit is what most of the badmouthing you do is. You should probably get the dictionary, and learn the difference. :rolleyes:
.
Click to expand...
 
Regarding Mosconi's stance: There really isn't much choice when you stand that high at the table. You have to drop your elbow if you want to follow through without pulling up the end of the cue at a sharp angle.

Players who stand low at the table are the ones who can go either way or both, as I do.
 
FranCrimi said:
Regarding Mosconi's stance: There really isn't much choice when you stand that high at the table. You have to drop your elbow if you want to follow through without pulling up the end of the cue at a sharp angle.

Players who stand low at the table are the ones who can go either way or both, as I do.
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I do like how his hand is clearly photographed on the follow through-his little finger is out and off the cue, with the relaxed grip (v grip) indicated on the webbing of his hand. Even with a pinned elbow, shouldn't the hand finish like this?

This might show my age and inexperience- when I was in middle school, when playing basketball, everyone wanted to imitate Michael Jordan and his moves. From his could shots to that turnaround fade away jump shot, all the kids were trying to execute by imitation.

Why don't we (American pool players/instructors) push this mentality more when a beginner poses a question regarding elbow drop or the basics of stance. I'm sure in the Philippines every kid wants to shoot like Efren and Busty, so they imitate them and adopt that classic fluid stroke.

I've suggested in the past to find a pro player that matches your height/build and imitate away. It might open up doors.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I do like how his hand is clearly photographed on the follow through-his little finger is out and off the cue, with the relaxed grip (v grip) indicated on the webbing of his hand. Even with a pinned elbow, shouldn't the hand finish like this?

This might show my age and inexperience- when I was in middle school, when playing basketball, everyone wanted to imitate Michael Jordan and his moves. From his could shots to that turnaround fade away jump shot, all the kids were trying to execute by imitation.

Why don't we (American pool players/instructors) push this mentality more when a beginner poses a question regarding elbow drop or the basics of stance. I'm sure in the Philippines every kid wants to shoot like Efren and Busty, so they imitate them and adopt that classic fluid stroke.

I've suggested in the past to find a pro player that matches your height/build and imitate away. It might open up doors.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't recommend imitation. You have to remember that player you're trying to emulate has probably been playing his style for years and years. It could take you longer trying to copy him instead of just trying to find your own style.

As for as the Philippines, there really aren't any of the younger generation that shoot anything remotely like Efren and Busty.

I was also one of the kids that tried to emulate Jordan when I was on the basketball court. Funny how out of the millions and millions of other kids that were trying to be like Mike, only one of them actually succeeded. Kobe.


Edit: There may be certain things worth copying like stance/foot location, but cue action should always be individual.
 
BeiberLvr said:
I wouldn't recommend imitation. You have to remember that player you're trying to emulate has probably been playing his style for years and years. It could take you longer trying to copy him instead of just trying to find your own style.

As for as the Philippines, there really aren't any of the younger generation that shoot anything remotely like Efren and Busty.

I was also one of the kids that tried to emulate Jordan when I was on the basketball court. Funny how out of the millions and millions of other kids that were trying to be like Mike, only one of them actually succeeded. Kobe.


Edit: There may be certain things worth copying like stance/foot location, but cue action should always be individual.
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That's what I'm most getting at....Maybe I should've been more direct.

Imitating Jordan you were in the ballpark. No one was imitating Rick berry or Shaq from the free throw line, it would have been futile. We all knew we would never be Jordan but to have a template in which to emulate, made the fundamentals more solid and the game play more enjoyable-even for some 5 foot nothing 13 year olds. :grin:

Personally, I watched hours of Shane and Feijen in terms of grip, bridge hand placement, bridge length, stance and shooting motion. I'll never be a pro and in a way, I'm still a kid trying to emulate a sport being played at the highest level. I dig Niels' pause and repeatable stroke. It's a thing of beauty. I also marvel at Shane's effortless stroke, tip placement- effective. After meeting them both and realizing they are around my height/build...their matches have been good visual lessons for me.

But yes, I agree, if you pick the wrong guy and start emulating a flawed stroke it would take years to get even remotely as efficient as them. And in some instances, it might just hold your development back.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
I do like how his hand is clearly photographed on the follow through-his little finger is out and off the cue, with the relaxed grip (v grip) indicated on the webbing of his hand. Even with a pinned elbow, shouldn't the hand finish like this?

This might show my age and inexperience- when I was in middle school, when playing basketball, everyone wanted to imitate Michael Jordan and his moves. From his could shots to that turnaround fade away jump shot, all the kids were trying to execute by imitation.

Why don't we (American pool players/instructors) push this mentality more when a beginner poses a question regarding elbow drop or the basics of stance. I'm sure in the Philippines every kid wants to shoot like Efren and Busty, so they imitate them and adopt that classic fluid stroke.

I've suggested in the past to find a pro player that matches your height/build and imitate away. It might open up doors.
Click to expand...

Willie had a short stroke which was geared just for playing 14.1. In later years, when he tried to play 9 ball, he hated the game. He claimed he hated the luck factor, but I believe it was also because he had difficulty with the big shots where a bigger stroke was needed, and he fell short.

As for his pinkie off the cue ---- That goes along with his short stroke, and the fact that he stood taller at the table. He used his wrist to generate power as opposed to lengthening his stroke, which he couldn't do. But even if he could have lengthened his stroke, it wouldn't have helped him in many close shots in 14.1 that required power. The only way to achieve power in those circumstances without double-hitting the cue ball was with a shorter stroke and flicking the wrist for power. Removing the pinkie from the cue supported easier wrist movement.
 
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Cardigan Kid said:





I felt these photos of Mosconi pertained to the discussion...

Borrowed from lfigueroa post in this thread....

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=275206

Great discussion. Lots of learning here.
Click to expand...

Kid,

Is that a fixed elbow & upper arm Mr. Mosconi is using there?

Just this week at the Senior Golf Tour event there was a Legends Team Event & they talked to Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, & Lee Trevino about putting.

Jack Nicklaus was probably the greatest clutch putter in the history of the game. Some have said that he 'Willed' the ball into the hole.

In that interview, Lee Trevino said that he never understood why other players never emulated Nicklaus. He said that when he was once having a bad route with the putter, he decided to emulate Nicklaus & came in second that tournament. He adapted what Nicklaus did to fit him.

My Dad sort of showed me how to putt like Arnold Palmer. I later went to putting just like Jack Nicklaus, my Son could never get into that method. I putted better with a driver than he did with his putter, but he has gotten better.

Anyway, One has to make it their own but if it is being used by & working for the Best, then there is usually a very good reason why they are doing what they are.

All Best Wishes for You & Yours... & ALL.

PS The best athletes find the best ways & they generally are not taught to do what they ultimately settle on doing.
 
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