Elbow dropping... innocuous or a damnable curse?

Elbow dropping... innocuous or a damnable curse?

  • Total voters
    117
Flex

Flex

Banger
Silver Member
What say ye? Thou shalt not drop thine elbow! or Just a little bit is ok! or All the pro players drop their elbows on some shots! Also, do you know any players visited by an obsession to never drop their elbows, and who wander from table to table castigating elbow droppers, much as some do for droppin' their "g"s?

Flex
 
I reluctantly voted for the 'just a little bit' only because it would seem that a slight elbow drop after contact will not impede stroke execution. However, I am leaning closer and closer to the SPF school. A session with Tony Robles has really made me aware of the perils of a collapsing elbow. It clearly causes an inadvertent raising of the tip and it ruins an otherwise good stroke.
 
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether someone is dropping the elbow before or after contact, which would obviously make a big difference. If they do drop slightly before contact, I think it's one of things that pros just learn to compensate for by practicing for years.

I will take the uncontroversial position (I think) that learning a pendulum stroke with no elbow drop can speed up the process of getting a consistent repeatable stroke, but it's not necessary.
 
Flex said:
What say ye? Thou shalt not drop thine elbow! or Just a little bit is ok! or All the pro players drop their elbows on some shots! Also, do you know any players visited by an obsession to never drop their elbows, and who wander from table to table castigating elbow droppers, much as some do for droppin' their "g"s?

Flex
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The vast majority of players drop the elbow some on firm shots, as I just mentioned in that other thread. Even the good players. I think it is required for a natural follow-through (without cramping the arm) on power shots. Tony Robles is an exception to this, and there are a few others who keep their elbows still even on full-table draw shots.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone here knows enough about biomechanics and/or kinesiology to fill in the details.

It is, of course, dangerous to argue what should be done by what the top players do, but I think that if you can find common ground across pool, carom and snooker among the players in the championships, you might have a model of good play.
 
VIProfessor said:
I reluctantly voted for the 'just a little bit' only because it would seem that a slight elbow drop after contact will not impede stroke execution. However, I am leaning closer and closer to the SPF school. A session with Tony Robles has really made me aware of the perils of a collapsing elbow. It clearly causes an inadvertent raising of the tip and it ruins an otherwise good stroke.
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i thought the elbow drop would cause the tip to be lower, instead of raising? am i missing something here?

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i thought the elbow drop would cause the tip to be lower, instead of raising? am i missing something here?

DCP
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Yes. Evidently you missed a major point in your recent lesson. Or maybe you were kidding again.

I'll assume you weren't kidding. Get on the table. Get in position to hit the ball at the set position, with the tip at the center of the cue ball. Look back at your elbow. Move it down four inches. Turn around and look at your tip.
 
Just the opposite

DrCue'sProtege said:
i thought the elbow drop would cause the tip to be lower, instead of raising? am i missing something here?

DCP
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Your bridge is a fulcrum. When the back end of the cue is lowered, the front raises. You can be aiming for draw and end up with a stop shot.
 
part of follow through

You almost have to do it to follow through. I don't suggest it anytime before.
 
On a related note, who are the players that get the best grade for keeping the elbow still? Allison Fisher comes to mind.
 
Flex said:
What say ye? Thou shalt not drop thine elbow! or Just a little bit is ok! or All the pro players drop their elbows on some shots! Also, do you know any players visited by an obsession to never drop their elbows, and who wander from table to table castigating elbow droppers, much as some do for droppin' their "g"s?

Flex
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I believe the elbow should remain still at the point of contact and slightly beyond.

If you are in line and you keep your elbow and shoulder completely still, you can't move your forearm anywhere but straight back and straight forward. If you bring the rest of your arm into the equation it allows for a whole range of motion that you have to watch out for.
 
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Flex said:
What say ye? Thou shalt not drop thine elbow! or Just a little bit is ok! or All the pro players drop their elbows on some shots! Also, do you know any players visited by an obsession to never drop their elbows, and who wander from table to table castigating elbow droppers, much as some do for droppin' their "g"s?

Flex
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IMO, it is a common understanding that fewer moving parts means fewer things can go wrong. Thus, developing a no elbow drop stroke can result in a more predictable and repeatable action. SPF (as in the other thread) is one tool to help develop good mechanics. Basically, it is a rote method of training your body to perform a particular action. A side benefit is providing a point of reference for correction if your stroke goes bad. Just pull out the camcorder and evaluate.

For beginners, I believe elbow drop should be eliminated. As you grow into your own style, you should use your most effective stroking method - whether you drop or not.

-td
 
PKM said:
On a related note, who are the players that get the best grade for keeping the elbow still? Allison Fisher comes to mind.
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The last time I watched her, I think she did not come close to Tony Robles for perfectly still elbow. I think that like many players, she has two different modes that depend on the speed of the shot.
 
Klopek said:
Dropping the elbow=curse.

If you currently drop your elbow and teach yourself to stop dropping it, your game should improve almost immediately.
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Trying to keep my elbow quiet has, among other things, helped me.

However, when shooting a force follow with english, I find I get better results, not only with potting the ball, but also with cue ball movement after contacting the object ball, when I keep the line of the cue going straight and not dipping, which basically necessitates dropping the elbow somewhat.

Flex
 
Klopek said:
Are you sure your backhand is perpendicular when you're addressing the cue ball?. Sounds like you may be in front of your ideal back hand alignment and running out of follow through length. Just a thought.:)
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That was something that Mark Wilson changed in my stance/stroke. He showed me my hand was a bit forward of perpendicular by about two inches, and told me that although my stroke would be more accurate, that when needing to put more oomph into the shot I would probably end up twisting something and throwing the shot off. Moving the hand back those two inches gave me about a 5 inch follow through, when the tip finishes on the cloth, which added a lot of power without much effort.

Nevertheless, I've found that dropping the elbow a bit to keep the cue going on a straight line has definitely improved my overall success with those shots.

Maybe it's just me, but it works better on that shot than dipping the tip of the cue, as would happen if my elbow didn't drop at all. Not dropping my elbow is my normal way of stroking.

Flex
 
Klopek said:
At times I've noticed I can get antsy when I'm combining lots of top spin with side spin, I feel more comfortable digging into the bottom of the cueball. Probably because a lot of people use an open bridge when using follow and worry that they'll miscue.

Technically speaking you don't need any more of a follow through motion for a topspin shot than a draw shot, (in fact it's probably the other way around). Could it be that it's just insecurity that's giving you a hard time with these shots and not the distance you're following through?.

I'm just shooting ideas out here, mostly trying to convince myself.:)
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I can assure you that the best way for me to get real movement of the cue ball on force follow shots with english occurs when I'm using a tight, closed loop bridge (I use a glove), a rather long, fluid stroke, a very light hold on the cue, and the line of the shaft continues to go as straight ahead as possible. This is especially critical, IMHO, when playing on very slow tables, where the cue ball needs to go around the table, and the shot on the object ball is almost straight in.

If you really doubt whether this is one of the better ways to go, set up 10 shots the way you currently do, and 10 the way I'm suggesting, and find out for yourself what works better for you.

Flex
 
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