End of the WPA Russia Ban

[vapoolplayer]

Who's civil rights. Only citizens of the United States have civil rights, and only within the United States.

Human rights on the other hand are another matter.

Constitution applies to everyone on US soil. Doesn’t matter citizenship.

However, an organization not allowing someone in their events is definitely not a civil rights violation.

Except for a very small amount of exceptions, private entities can allow or disallow whoever they like.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Russian citizens have civil rights in the US?

Yes.

 

[westcoast]

And all three have spoken out against the war.

That could be problematic for them back home- apparently Russians aren’t even supposed to acknowledge that a war is happening, let alone protest it

 

[westcoast]

I'm not going to worry about the details, I'm just glad that Fedor and Kristina finally get to play, frankly it was bs. These kids have nothing to do with Putin's attacks, nor do they support them in any way.
And I hope they eventually become US citizens--- they are the kind of young adults this country needs more of.
But for now: be free my fine, neutral-flag players--- kick some butt!!!

I agree- they seem like great people on top of being great players.

The concern is that Putin uses success in sports to glorify the country. However, pool is such an obscure sport relatively speaking so it may not be applicable so much in this instance

 

[kling&allen]

Constitution applies to everyone on US soil. Doesn’t matter citizenship.

However, an organization not allowing someone in their events is definitely not a civil rights violation.

Except for a very small amount of exceptions, private entities can allow or disallow whoever they like.

Not in the US. The article I linked above has more details. The line is where these sports organizations host events in places of public accomodation like event halls or sports arenas.

(I've been practicing law for almost 2 decades)

 

[Dan_B]

...so,
jihad, the communist fascist marxist of humanity have the weed-whacking, fargoless WPA as an ally in its conquest to control by means of pillaging, rape, torcher, extortion, mass murder - ethnic cleansing?
Can only mean that the weed whackers family's lives have been spared from crucifixion so far.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Constitution applies to everyone on US soil. Doesn’t matter citizenship.

However, an organization not allowing someone in their events is definitely not a civil rights violation.

Except for a very small amount of exceptions, private entities can allow or disallow whoever they like.

Come here from (insert country) and try to buy (legally) a firearm and see what that gets you.

 

[kling&allen]

Come here from (insert country) and try to buy (legally) a firearm and see what that gets you.

May aliens legally in the United States purchase firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

An alien legally in the U.S. is not prohibited from purchasing firearms unless the alien is admitted into the U.S. under a nonimmigrant visa and does not meet one of the exceptions as provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as possession of a valid hunting license or permit. [18 U.S.C. 922 (d)(5)...

www.atf.gov

 

[buckshotshoey]

May aliens legally in the United States purchase firearms? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

An alien legally in the U.S. is not prohibited from purchasing firearms unless the alien is admitted into the U.S. under a nonimmigrant visa and does not meet one of the exceptions as provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as possession of a valid hunting license or permit. [18 U.S.C. 922 (d)(5)...

www.atf.gov

Non immigrant Visa. That, for example, would be Gorst. Must possess hunting license.

I do know people come here from other countries for hunting purposes

And it's much more complicated than that link to the ATF makes it appear to be..

May non-immigrant aliens buy firearms?

In the United States, citizenship is a complicated issue and it becomes even more so when firearms are involved. A very common question I am asked is “May non-immigrant aliens buy firearms?” The answer, as is

johnpierceesq.com

 

[ideologist]

Yes.

What are those? I see thousands of people dragged into cages at the southern border, doesn't smell much like civil rights to me

 

[7stud]

Yes the purple 5 has been occupying the space of the orange 5.

It’s a conflict or war imo. I’m fighting to the end️

Best Fatboy

It's time for a competing Tour, where ALL the balls are orange. Let's stick it to the man!

 

[vapoolplayer]

What are those? I see thousands of people dragged into cages at the southern border, doesn't smell much like civil rights to me

No different than when someone gets arrested for a DUI. You just don’t see news crews video that happening every single night.

Crossing the border illegally is a crime. You get arrested.

Even a U.S. Citizen gets arrested if they don’t cross at a Port of Entry.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Not in the US. The article I linked above has more details. The line is where these sports organizations host events in places of public accomodation like event halls or sports arenas.

(I've been practicing law for almost 2 decades)

I think you’ll be hard pressed to get a court to agree that means an organization can’t bar them from their competitions.

The line would be not letting them into the establishment itself, or segregating them within the establishment.

They can’t bar them from coming inside. But they can bar them from participating in the competition.

It’s happening at the track and field world championships right this moment in Oregon.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Pretty easy to say: “today the facilities are only open to participants registered for XYZ competition and spectators.”

So, the only people allowed to participate would be registered with the WPA. The Russians would be welcome as spectators.

The establishment or Tournament director in the US did not make the decision on Russians. The WPA did and the TD is just running the tournament with those names provided by the WPA.

Many ways to be legal and not discriminatory in the spirit of the CRA.


*Note* I fully support the ban being lifted. I don’t believe it’s right to hold athletes responsible for the actions of their governments. However, while I may disagree, I don’t believe it’s illegal under civil rights laws.

 

[Fatboy]

No different than when someone gets arrested for a DUI. You just don’t see news crews video that happening every single night.

Crossing the border illegally is a crime. You get arrested.

Even a U.S. Citizen gets arrested if they don’t cross at a Port of Entry.

Well kinda.

In Ca these days it’s pretty hard to get arrested for anything…….

 

[Fatboy]

I don’t believe in banning anyone that’s not a criminal.

Criminal meaning real bad guy-killer, rape, violent. Trespassing or boarder violations who cares? Denis never hurt anyone. That type of thing pisses me off. I get it-there’s rules. And play by them. I do.

Glad they reversed their position

Now let’s get rid of WADA and purple 5 balls!!!!!

 

[kling&allen]

Pretty easy to say: “today the facilities are only open to participants registered for XYZ competition and spectators.”

So, the only people allowed to participate would be registered with the WPA. The Russians would be welcome as spectators.

The establishment or Tournament director in the US did not make the decision on Russians. The WPA did and the TD is just running the tournament with those names provided by the WPA.

Many ways to be legal and not discriminatory in the spirit of the CRA.


*Note* I fully support the ban being lifted. I don’t believe it’s right to hold athletes responsible for the actions of their governments. However, while I may disagree, I don’t believe it’s illegal under civil rights laws.

Not to turn this into a law school course, but these tactics were all tried with whites-only sports events. They were all rejected by the courts. I'm happy to PM you some case law if you are interested.

You can Google the recent lawsuit involving US Soccer and the FIFA mandates on women 's pay for a good example of how leauges and tournaments can't point to international sanctioning as a reason to evade US law.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Not to turn this into a law school course, but these tactics were all tried with whites-only sports events. They were all rejected by the courts. I'm happy to PM you some case law if you are interested.

You can Google the recent lawsuit involving US Soccer and the FIFA mandates on women 's pay for a good example of how leauges and tournaments can't point to international sanctioning as a reason to evade US law.

Completely different scenarios. And the fifa lawsuit was settled, which you definitely know doesn’t mean the case would have been lost.

You also know that case law regarding racial discrimination is likely to not be applied the same to what amounts to sanctions over a country’s political actions. As the argument wouldn’t be they are disallowed because they *are* Russian, but that they *represent* Russia.

Though if you have case law showing US Courts forcing any organization to allow someone to play despite there being bans on the country for political reasons, I’d be happy to read them.

As if they exist, it should be easy to have an injunction put in place. Which hasn’t been done in sports as big as the Track and Field World Championship which is on US Soil currently as we speak.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Also, take notice that even though they were allowed to compete in the US Open Tennis, the decision was based on (IMO, the right decision) not holding them responsible for their country’s actions.

Had their legal council agreed it was a civil rights violation, they would have included that in their decision making and explanations.

It’s always much easier to shrug your shoulders and say “our hands are tied via US law, we have to let them participate.”

Yet no one is doing that at all.

 

[kling&allen]

Also, take notice that even though they were allowed to compete in the US Open Tennis, the decision was based on (IMO, the right decision) not holding them responsible for their country’s actions.

Had their legal council agreed it was a civil rights violation, they would have included that in their decision making and explanations.

It’s always much easier to shrug your shoulders and say “our hands are tied via US law, we have to let them participate.”

Yet no one is doing that at all.

We will have to agree to disagree here. It's literally the exact same statute that protects Fedor now in 2022 that protected Cisero Murphy in 1965. No pro sports (other than pool) in the US barred Russians. And, as you note, there is a difference between events where someone represents their country versus merely being from a country. Fedor is not representing his country when he tries to play in the CSI Arizona Open or US Open.

Here's a law review article that will give you more background on the topic:

Athlete Eligibility Requirements and Legal Protection of Sports Participation Opportunities

This article compares and examines the existing legal frameworks governing athletic eligibility rules and dispute resolution processes for Olympic, professional, college, and high school sports from both private law and public law perspectives. At all levels of sports competition, monolithic...

scholarship.law.marquette.edu