But the tip and cue ball do not differentiate between hard and fast. Fast is hard and slow is soft. The cue ball only knows tip speed and tip placement.
Energy transfer from cuetip to whiteball
- Thread starter riedmich
- Start date
The cue ball doesn't feel a heavier cue, if it did a heavy cue would be a requirement for ca fast break shot.
Zerksies
Well-known member
Take a boxing anaolgy about a punch. A jab is a quick hit, But a jab does not have the power that a cross has. You can hit the ball a few diffirent ways.
Try drawing the ball with power stroke then hit the ball with a fast stroke and see what ball goes farther.
Actually a great analogy. The jab is less powerful but more likely to connect, and more likely to hit where you want.
A pool cue is a scalpel, not a bat.
And you think that those shots all have the same tip speed??
That will help you move the cue faster.
The cueball is gone too fast for the grip on the cue to matter. It has been proven many times.
Sure it does p=mv. The problem is that as the weight increases your ability to move the cue fast decreases. So there is a weight beyond which it is not productive for a particular individual to increase the weight of the cue.
I think it’s more than just the speed of the tip when making contact. If you take it from one extreme to the other it makes a big difference in energy transfer. Example:
If what’s behind the tip is a feather vs a steel rod and the tip speed is the same at CB contact the feather will collapse on contact and not transfer much energy to CB whereas the steel rod will not collapse
If there’s a difference in extreme to extreme there has to be a difference at all points in between although it be minuscule .
If what’s behind the tip is a feather vs a steel rod and the tip speed is the same at CB contact the feather will collapse on contact and not transfer much energy to CB whereas the steel rod will not collapse
If there’s a difference in extreme to extreme there has to be a difference at all points in between although it be minuscule .
If the speed was not changed but the cue weight was increased the break would be more powerful.
Describe the difference the cue ball “feels” between a power stroke and a fast stroke.
pj
chgo
Yes, that’s what I said in the last sentence of the first paragraph. But if you read Bob’s post (#13) you will see why I’m saying that it can be better to think of it as hitting fast.
That strikes a chord with my way of thinking.
While I have not read the posts that follow this one, it seems a good place to jump in.
Treating the cue as a scalpel has me looking at where I want to make the incision to the cueball.
My latest experiments has me playing in competition with my break cue with a phenolic tip as hard as the balls. This experiment is ongoing and illuminating.
My conclusions are not necessarily universal but I am confident in my personal preferences.
My conclusions include;
The soft tip contact with the white is longer. (obviously ) er uh duh.
The hard tip more efficiently transfers energy. (Well high energy is controlled better as long as I stay centerball. )
Now for my analogy experience playing table tennis and the evolution from sand paper to soft rubber on the paddles. Again an obvious difference that is more easily observed. One of my favorite pool lesson books is on table tennis. Go figure.
Marty Reisman took the hard paddle to an incredible level. The precision he brought to the strike allowed him to make points with balls that brushed the net or table edge to make them unreturnable. 
He could even play with the knife edge of the paddle. So precision placement or overwhelming spin with the soft rubber prolonged contact.
Well in table tennis the softer prevailed. On the pool table the different tips suit different styles.
Different games suit different styles. 9 ball can reward power while straight pool is suited to precision.
Uh oh I have rrerambled, again.
One last er uh check out the sound of Mark Williams tip on his snooker cue. It's Very Hard.
It is, probably the hardest of any top professional.
Williams also floats in more balls than any top player. Most players prefer to hit them with at least medium speed - Williams plays everything pocket speed if at all possible.
Let me take a poke at this.
Power analogy would be???? Okay would you prefer to be hit by 90 mph ping pong ball or 90 mph baseball.
And uh how fast would the ping pong ball need to go to move the object ball as far as a 2mph cueball?
A jab is a short punch and does not have the time to reach full speed like a full punch does. Even though a short quick pool stroke may 'feel' fast the tip is not going as fast a full-length stroke. The ball only reacts to the speed of the tip at impact. The quick/fast stroke will do fine for short draws but if you're trying the Mike Massey shot you have to use a full length power stroke. The speed needed(and stroke needed) for those two shots are vastly different. All the tip knows is how fast its moving at impact, not how the speed was produced.
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15.65 mphLet me take a poke at this.
Power analogy would be???? Okay would you prefer to be hit by 90 mph ping pong ball or 90 mph baseball.
And uh how fast would the ping pong ball need to go to move the object ball as far as a 2mph cueball?
When the tip hits the cue ball your arm/hand/grip have no effect - the hand's skin gives too much. So the stick's weight and speed are the only things that matter - and, at the same speed, they're the same with a "fast" or "powerful" stroke.
How you stroke may affect your consistency/accuracy, but it doesn't change how contact at the same speed works.
pj
chgo
That's all fine if that's what the shot requires. A short/quick stroke cannot produce the speed needed for,say, a long draw shot. That requires speed that the short quick stroke will never generate.
Or maybe not. I can't access the article without forking over some dough, but it looks interesting:
Energy loss in cue-ball collisions
Rod CrossPublished 6 September 2021 • © 2021 European Physical Society. All rights, including for text and data mining, AI training, and similar technologies, are reserved.
European Journal of Physics, Volume 42,Number 6