English and Chalk Marks

Jen_Cen

Jen_Cen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I hit a ball with 1 tip of follow/draw/english (that is, if the center of the tip is aimed 6.5mm from center), where can I expect the chalk mark to be?

I ask because someone lent me an elephant ball and told me that I should practice hitting high and low and check the chalk mark after.

But there doesn't seem to be markings on the elephant ball to correspond with the chalk mark for 1 tip. (Or even 1/2 tip for that matter).

Thanks,
Jen
 
Jen_Cen...Get yourself a Rempe CB. It has concentric circles all the way around the ball, to correspond with your questions about where the chalk mark should be, if you aim a certain place.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Jen_Cen said:
If I hit a ball with 1 tip of follow/draw/english (that is, if the center of the tip is aimed 6.5mm from center), where can I expect the chalk mark to be?

I ask because someone lent me an elephant ball and told me that I should practice hitting high and low and check the chalk mark after.

But there doesn't seem to be markings on the elephant ball to correspond with the chalk mark for 1 tip. (Or even 1/2 tip for that matter).

Thanks,
Jen
Click to expand...

Jen, to start with, you need to define what you mean by "a tip" of english.

If you offset the tip, say to the left, so that the right edge of the tip is adjacent to the center of the CB, some people call that "one tip."

But since the ball and tip are both curved, the portion of the tip that contacts the CB and leaves a mark will be to the right of the center of the tip and therefore, will not be one tip radius from the center.

Even if you hit a flat surface so that the center of the tip contacts it, the center, being in the center will be only 1/2 tip radius from the centerline.

So, some people use "1 tip" to mean positioning the tip with its edge on either the right or left of CB center.

Others would say that is 1/2 tip of english.

Regards,
Jim
 
Multiply the offset of the center of the shaft (tip) by 0.73. In this case, 0.73 X 6.5mm = 4.7mm.

That 0.73 factor is an average for different tip curvatures (dime, nickel, quarter), but there's not much difference between them: 0.77, 0.73, 0.71, respectively. (I use 11/16", 13/16" and 15/16" for the diameters of the coins, which are not exact, but close enough and easy to remember.)

In general, if the center of the shaft is offset by an amount b, the geometric center of contact will be at offset:

b' = b X D/(D+C)

where D is the diameter of the cueball (2.25" for pool), and C is the diameter of the coin the tip is shaped to (see above).

Jim
 
Jal said:
Multiply the offset of the center of the shaft (tip) by 0.73. In this case, 0.73 X 6.5mm = 4.7mm.

That 0.73 factor is an average for different tip curvatures (dime, nickel, quarter), but there's not much difference between them: 0.77, 0.73, 0.71, respectively. (I use 11/16", 13/16" and 15/16" for the diameters of the coins, which are not exact, but close enough and easy to remember.)

In general, if the center of the shaft is offset by an amount b, the geometric center of contact will be at offset:

b' = b X D/(D+C)

where D is the diameter of the cueball (2.25" for pool), and C is the diameter of the coin the tip is shaped to (see above).
Click to expand...

Yeah...that's what I meant to say!!!

(-:
 
av84fun said:
Yeah...that's what I meant to say!!!

(-:
Click to expand...
:)

For the reasons you gave, it'll be a great day for pool, and mankind in general, when the term "tips of english" is abandoned. I sure wish everyone would warm up to Dr. Dave's nomenclature, where a maximum offset of 1/2R is defined as 100%, and all other offsets as some other percentage (ie, 50% for 1/4R).

Jim
 
"tips of" and percentage English

Jen_Cen said:
If I hit a ball with 1 tip of follow/draw/english (that is, if the center of the tip is aimed 6.5mm from center), where can I expect the chalk mark to be?

I ask because someone lent me an elephant ball and told me that I should practice hitting high and low and check the chalk mark after.

But there doesn't seem to be markings on the elephant ball to correspond with the chalk mark for 1 tip. (Or even 1/2 tip for that matter).
Click to expand...
Jen,

The Elephant ball red circle shows the miscue limit for the tip contact point (or patch). The chalk mark location will depend on how you define "1 tip" of English. Depending on your definition, it might also depend on the size and shape of your tip. However you define it, if the chalk mark ends up on the miscue-limit circle, I call that maximum (or 100%) English. If it is halfway to the circle, I call it 50% English. Percentage English is clear and accurate regardless of the size or shape of the tip.

FYI, I have two articles with good descriptions and illustration of all of this stuff here:
and
Regards,
Dave
 
Jal said:
:)

For the reasons you gave, it'll be a great day for pool, and mankind in general, when the term "tips of english" is abandoned. I sure wish everyone would warm up to Dr. Dave's nomenclature, where a maximum offset of 1/2R is defined as 100%, and all other offsets as some other percentage (ie, 50% for 1/4R).

Jim
Click to expand...

Roger that!!!
 
Jal said:
:)

For the reasons you gave, it'll be a great day for pool, and mankind in general, when the term "tips of english" is abandoned. I sure wish everyone would warm up to Dr. Dave's nomenclature, where a maximum offset of 1/2R is defined as 100%, and all other offsets as some other percentage (ie, 50% for 1/4R).

Jim
Click to expand...

This is the answer you're looking for, Jen. Forget "tips"; nobody knows what that means. Measure your tip offset to where you actually contact the ball (where the chalk mark is), not to where you move the shaft's center, and express it in inches, millimeters, fractions of a radius, percentages of maximum, anything that everybody knows how to define. Then you won't have to ask what a "tip" is and get eleven different answers.

The maximum distance you can hit from centerball without miscueing (100% english) is about:

1/2 radius
halfway from the center to the edge
1/4 ball
9/16" (a little over 1/2")
14.3 millimeters
the edge of the circle around a Centennial ball's number
the edge of an American quarter centered on the ball

pj
chgo
 
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