Entry/mid level low deflection cue

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No cue can. As I said (and you clearly don’t understand), “some degree of masse” and swerve are the same thing.

pj
chgo

The contention is simply that the LD will push the percentages of the shot in the unrealistic direction. Why are you being such a pussy? Are you such a pussy?
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Irrational would be making sense of your tack. I wish there was a name for the shot in question so I could repeatedly say, "It's harder if not impossible with an LD shaft."
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where have I denied LD performance?? FU in that regard. Nuthin personal.

Think before you start with the schitt. Place a ball on the end rail a ball out from the left corner pocket. Now, from the kitchen, cut it across to the right pocket. A standard one piece can do this from 90 degrees and beyond where the cue ball must clear the object ball in order to reach the end rail. The LD shaft reduces the one property that makes this shot possible: DEFLECTION. The house cue can create enough deflection and swerve to make this shot with the balls in a line perpendicular to the end rail. The LD would require some degree of masse to even produce a similar effect.





I think I have shown the shot you are describing.

To make it, the cueball must swerve along the white line to hit the rail where
indicated with extreme right english, no matter what shaft you use. The only
difference between a LD shaft and SD shaft is that to get the cueball to follow
this path you have to aim farther away from the ghost ball because you have
to compensate for more squirt with a SD shaft.

The only thing that changes is the aim point.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member



I think I have shown the shot you are describing.

To make it, the cueball must swerve along the white line to hit the rail where
indicated with extreme right english, no matter what shaft you use. The only
difference between a LD shaft and SD shaft is that to get the cueball to follow
this path you have to aim farther away from the ghost ball because you have
to compensate for more squirt.

The only thing that changes is the aim point.
That’s correct, of course.

Your diagram (thanks!) also illustrates another point I made: there’s no need to shoot this shot with intentional swerve/masse if you start with the CB close to the side rail.

pj
chgo
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've got no dog in this fight, but that shot with the OB frozen to the end rail and you cut it in 90 degrees with the CB in the kitchen, I could make that with my Predator when I was barely a C player (given several tries of course). Even with an angle steeper than 90 degrees. That's like the first proposition shot a new player gets hustled on by the more experienced player. One guy used to hustle the beginners on that shot after making it the normal way, by then saying "I'll shoot it with the CB on top of the endrail (sitting on the wood of the rail)". He'd ask for 20 tries and could make it in 3 tries. That guy was old school and used an old cue from the 80's. But I could make the same shots as him with my predator shafts.
 

Rye_a

Registered
The event horizon is the object ball. The shot may I restate, entails shooting from perpendicular or more obtuse, CLEARING the object ball and spinning back via the cushion to contact the object ball; thusly propelling it along the cushion.

The LD, by design "spec" cannot provide the proper ball motivation.

As the OP I have no Idea what Event Horizon is, but it sounds cool and I think I definitely need to be able to do it.

 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member

NuIWZ2F.png

I think I have shown the shot you are describing.

To make it, the cueball must swerve along the white line to hit the rail where
indicated with extreme right english, no matter what shaft you use. The only
difference between a LD shaft and SD shaft is that to get the cueball to follow
this path you have to aim farther away from the ghost ball because you have
to compensate for more squirt with a SD shaft.

The only thing that changes is the aim point.

Thank you for posting this. It is the exact shot. Now move the cueball to the right until it is full ball in line with the object ball. See the low deflection fail now?
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
See the low deflection fail now?

No.

There is a path the cueball must take to make any shot.

That path is the same no matter if you use an LD shaft, a SD shaft, or a woodchuck with a leather tip glued on his nose. The only thing the cueball cares about is force, and where it was applied.

Moving the cueball to the right only increases the amount of swerve needed for this shot. That is the same whichever cue you use. You seem to think an SD cue will masse easier maybe? That's not the case.
 
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couldnthinkof01

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No.

There is a path the cueball must take to make any shot.

That path is the same no matter if you use an LD shaft, a SD shaft, or a woodchuck with a leather tip glued on his nose. The only thing the cueball cares about is force, and where it was applied.

Moving the cueball to the right only increases the amount of swerve needed for this shot. That is the same whichever cue you use. You seem to think an SD cue will masse easier maybe? That's not the case.

Danny D has a good saying for guys like that.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No.

There is a path the cueball must take to make any shot.

That path is the same no matter if you use an LD shaft, a SD shaft, or a woodchuck with a leather tip glued on his nose. The only thing the cueball cares about is force, and where it was applied.

Moving the cueball to the right only increases the amount of swerve needed for this shot. That is the same whichever cue you use. You seem to think an SD cue will masse easier maybe? That's not the case.

See what you're saying? Standard, Low, and high deflection is the same. :shrug:

Move the ball even further right. There will be a point or points where neither cue will create the requisite action without an overt masse stroke. The LD will get there first. Also since the initial deflection differs between cues, the paths; the break of the ball, will be different.
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
See what you're saying? Standard, Low, and high deflection is the same. :shrug:

No. I'm saying the path the cueball will take is the same. The input you give to the cue will be different.

Move the ball even further right. There will be a point or points where neither cue will create the requisite action without an overt masse stroke.

Every one of these shots describe swerve or masse.

The LD will get there first.

No. It won't.

Also since the initial deflection differs between cues, the paths; the break of the ball, will be different.

Once the aiming point is compensated for, the path of the cueball will be identical with either cue.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
See what you're saying? Standard, Low, and high deflection is the same.
The cues aren't all the same (of course), but the force they deliver to the cue ball is.

Maybe this old illustration will help you understand what that means - whatever cue you use, if you angle it correctly to compensate for squirt then the "force vector" it delivers to the CB will be exactly the same. The CB doesn't "feel" any difference, and it reacts exactly the same way (same initial direction/speed, same amount of spin, same amount of swerve, same end result).

pj
chgo

P.S. Of course the "no squirt" cue is theoretical for illustration, since they don't exist (yet).

squirt 'force vectors'.jpg
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I get what you're saying. This also means that the most common benefit, long shots with english would degrade on a 10 footer say, never mind a 12 footer.(?)

IOW the ball will swerve past the contact point instead of out and back in towards the contact point.

Incidentally nobody calls using extreme english, masse.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I get what you're saying.
All indications say you don't.

This also means that the most common benefit, long shots with english would degrade on a 10 footer say, never mind a 12 footer.(?)

IOW the ball will swerve past the contact point instead of out and back in towards the contact point.
None of this is true (or makes any sense).

Incidentally nobody calls using extreme english, masse.
What people call it doesn't change the fact that swerve is nothing more than a small amount of masse, caused by striking the CB off center at a small downward angle. What you think of as masse is the same thing with a greater downward angle.

How much downward cue angle (or CB curve) do you imagine it takes to stop being swerve and start being masse?

pj
chgo
 
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Rye_a

Registered
Again as the OP I'm thinking I may just start with a discoutinued mid/low end Pechauer cue with an SD shaft, then buy an LD shaft as my game progresses.
 

Mick

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Again as the OP I'm thinking I may just start with a discoutinued mid/low end Pechauer cue with an SD shaft, then buy an LD shaft as my game progresses.

Way to butt into the "When does swerve become masse" thread.

I think that's a great way to go about it. Get a butt you'll be happy with long term, preferably one that uses a popular joint style, and upgrade down the road.
 
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