Greg, I have tried your method and it has merit in hitting the cue ball accurately such as in center ball hits. However I found it lacking in 'feel' for stun or drawing/following the cue ball precisely.
Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.
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Judd Trump is in contention for best long potter and Stephen speaks to and addresses the difference between them. With no intention to change anyone.
I enjoy the looks that Matchroom is giving on most players eye patterns in the snooker coverage. Ronnie is so quick and subtle with his eyes that the break off is the best evidence of looking at the white as he strikes it. The break off shot is about control of the cue ball first. Stephen Hendry speaking of Ronnie and himself being the same is strong evidence.
My observations lead me to the opinion that watching the path the tip takes through the cueball gives me the most accurate guess as to what the ball will do. The players that are demonstrating long range speed control of the white in the Snooker safety exchange are the players that appear to be looking at the white as they strike it. My experience mirrors that.
Well there's a few big names that call it Their Method.
Willie Hoppe
Stephen Hendry
Rodney Morris
Oscar Dominguez
While Ronnie O'Sullivan speaking to either way, Stephen said it's Ronnie's Method as well.
So I would not claim ownership, just use of The Method.
I’m just not sure if what they say they do and what they actually do are two different things. I would have to see actual video evidence clearly showing their eye movement pattern, to see their eyes shifting for the last time from the object ball to the cue ball and then remaining focused on the cue ball throughout the entirety of the stroke, particularly on a longer shot, for me to confirm that it’s true, regardless of what they might say.
Greg, I’m curious what you think of Barry Stark’s aiming video in which he claims that there are four different options for your eyes in shifting from the cue ball to the object ball?
Not one of his four options mentions even the possibility of your eyes remaining focused on the cue stick or the cue ball last through the forward stroke. In fact, at the beginning of the video, I recall that he says you MUST be focused on the object ball target at the point of cue tip/cue ball contact, and it’s not disputable.
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The entirety of the stroke? Not sure if I am understanding. I think of the entire process.
The mechanics, the mental and the discipline. The eye patterns are just one aspect of the process. The movement and timing are coordinated into the well coriographed dance.
What a person has confidence in will produce the best results.
Speaking as a player that made the switch. It's not easy and most likely not normal. Of course it's not normal to shoot equally well with either hand. Ronnie and Efren are proof of that.
When I refer to “the entirety of the stroke” I’m not referring to the preshot routine or the prestrokes. We all know and agree that our eyes shift back and forth from the OB to the CB before the start of the stroke. I’m specifically referring to the start of the final backstroke through the completion of the follow through.
My method has the final shift at the full back point. Stephen (if I remember right) indicated that the pause at the back was related to the eye shift. For me the eye shift, the pause and the ring finger trigger are the big 3 to final my process.
So when you refer to the final eye shift, for you or for Stephen Hendry, please clarify if that’s the eye’s final shift from CB to OB, or from OB to CB?
If it’s CB to OB, you (and Stephen) are not focusing on the CB at the point of impact, and this entire claim of CB last is quite misleading as to what I interpret CB last to mean.
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I am looking at the cue tip and ball impact and reading any spin imparted at contact. My eyes stay with the cueball in transit and I am so focused on the white's impact with the object ball that I can detect any skid or transfer of rotation at that collision.
I would not hazard to speak for Stephen Hendry. He does stress finding the point of contact on the object ball and staying with it. At the same time he speaks of his last look is the cue ball.
While Stephen related the pause to the eye shift, I relate the pause to giving the ring finger the control.
It just helps
Did I mention that Stephen Hendry can respond to questions that he finds interesting. I would suspect that his coverage of the eye patterns as a response to an indication of interest in a post I made. He has shown an interest in promoting excellence in the game. His content is excellent. That combined with the coaching of Barry Stark could provide a blueprint for a world champion.
I find this very conflicting and confusing statements as to what he (Stephen Hendry) has his eyes focused on during the forward stroke, CB or OB?
I can't remember more than the pause at the back was to make the transition to the cue ball. So from the pause at the back, the eyes would be on the white through the stroke. That's my take anyway
. Changing the pattern can bring disruption. So it's dangerous tinkering. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Of course if it's broken, fix it from the ground up. Start over with the foundation then the structure then worry about the aiming. Well wait a minute.... I am aiming when building the shooting platform. Go figure. My take is getting the robot orientation starting with the Lazer focus on the object ball point of aim. If I do that aiming well setting the platform I should be able to close my eyes and shoot. Oh wait Mark Williams has put that on display.
Seems I missed this question:
Barry Stark definitely teaches object ball last. I don't recall the video you are referencing. Pretty sure I have watched all of his though. I had a brief interaction with him before Stephen Hendry made his video regarding his method. We(Barry and I) agreed to disagree, so I assume he still teaches object ball last. Seems to work good for Judd. Kyren Wilson studied under Barry so I assume he does as Barry prescribed.
Either method! My original post 10 years ago was simply to make the point that at the very least the methods are equal. My experience is that I can perform better watching my tip go through the ball. The degree of precision of the strike on the cue ball in turn is reflected in the results of the shot. 14.1 is a game that rewards precision over power. Well short precise cue ball paths were what I noticed watching Ray Martin playing 9 ball. My personal experience is that I can make some very delicate cue ball movements now that were not a sure thing before I started watching the tip/ball interaction.
Ronnie owns most of the records that were set by Stephen. Judd is a close second to Ronnie. So close that Ronnie hugged him in his latest big victory.
As for any that thinking, "well that's snooker". Ronnie said Snooker compared to Pool like The Masters compared to Putt Putt golf. Stephen says it's like Chess to Checkers.
It’s not hard to find. Go to YouTube, punch in Barry Stark. The second one down from the top is titled Aim Part 1. The video lasts 5:52.
He demonstrates each of the 4 various methods of eye patterns used during the stroke, but stresses that there is only one correct answer to what you should look at from the start of the forward stroke for all 4 methods, and that is the object ball.
Got it.
It would be interesting to hear his take on Stephen Hendry saying that both he and Ronnie are cue ball last.
The different eye patterns are interesting and I suspect that there are different patterns that end up with absolute focus on the collision between the cue and ball as well.
My background in rifle and shotgun shooting has me aiming down the cue as if a shotgun. My one handed practice has shown me what a large part of aiming comes long before my bridge hand touches the table.
Just watching Kyren Wilson and Ding. Kyren racking up 4 frames before Ding makes a ball. Kyren's study under Barry Stark leads me to assume, object ball.
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Here's another; Her form looks like Barry Stark and her eye pattern looks like Ronni O'Sullivan.
obsession bordering on delusion. whatever works for a player is what they should do. the constant need of approval for whatever method you may like makes zero sense. i don't play snooker so what they do means nada to me actually. been playing pool for 40+yrs and am pretty damn observant and i've never seen one top pool player that looks at the cb last. i'm sure some do but none i've watched. again, WHY is proving this method better(which it isn't) so damn important? you like it and that's great. others don't and that's great.
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So why do you reply? Am I on your lawn ?