Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

gregcantrall said:
If I were coaching a brand new player.... I would have them start with what I call The Slow Kiss. Cue ball on the head spot and object ball on the foot spot. The object being to strike the object ball so that it comes back and freeze to the cue ball. Okay wait🤪 Before they get a second ball first master with cue ball only from head spot hit foot rail and have it come back to the cue tip that has remained at the end of the stroke. Stephen Hendry has demonstrated this and I concur.😉
Part of my theory of learning to walk before run. It gives an opportunity for the inspection of the form and adjustment of same. Walter Lindrum had to practice for a month before getting a second ball.
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Finding center ball and stroke straight through it being a good place to start. I can achieve equal accuracy in this drill look at either ball. My best speed control comes with cue ball last. And the ring finger trigger finger. Barry Stark teaches the grip in a straight forward and understandable way. Anyway walk then run.😁
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When my eyes would start to get lazy and undisciplined I would go back to cue ball only for practice. The object ball is one of the worst distractions life has to offer. With just the cue ball to worry about, it didn't take long to start hitting it nearly perfect again.
 
Boxcar said:
You're not looking at the cue ball. You are looking at the exact place on the cue ball that you must hit with your tip if you're going to make the shot. Pin point accuracy. Discipline. Concentration. Focus.

Set up a few easy shots. Get the shot aligned physically and mentally. The shot requires that you draw the ball 19 inches for perfect position on your next shot. Decide how you are going to execute the shot. Decide on the exact spot in the cue ball that you want to strike. Check alignment. Now tell your brain to tell your eyes to tell your hands to make your cue's tip hit the exact spot on the cue ball that will achieve the desired result. Look for a puff of blue smoke when the tip hits the ball. That millisecond, that moment in time is the only chance you have to physically affect the outcome of the shot. Poof, it's gone.
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You hit the key words: Discipine, Concentration and Focus. And, as I'm sure you know, playing or practising like that is hard work. I find 30 or 40 minutes in full concentration, staying with my PSR on every shot is not easy to do. Yet, to do it demands serious focus and concentration IMHO, it is a very effective way to practise.
 
I think, the ‘crux’ is ‘hand-eye-coordination’. It is such a painful effort (after learning to play the opposite way), that a super-human strength is required to overcome. But, when you can actually force it thru, you do feel pain from the effort. It goes against the life-long grain.
 
Just a recollection from a decade or so ago, might be on topic, might not be. About pistol aiming and shooting with an optic sight. Might relate to cue ball or object ball last or might be totally in left field.

My travel companion for awhile was another Master class competitor. Not a winner although he knocked at the door a lot of times, just a few points back. I built a pistol for him, tuned a handful more. His group sizes were a little bigger than mine which I natcherally attributed to my God given grace and talent and just plain skill!(grin)

Testing a gun he competed with regularly with an optic sight on it, the red dot, I was surprised that while it shot a pretty tight group, it was probably four inches from the x ring. Accepted practice with the red dot sights and the way I shot was to focus on the dot near the rear of the pistol, it replacing the front sight which was the focus when iron sights were used. He looked through the sight to the target and focused his eyesight on the target.

Does the red dot relate to the cue ball and the target to the object ball? An interesting thought especially since I consistently bettered his performances, just a bit even if shooting the same pistol for some reason.

Speaking of three-quarter table shots or longer, could it be that being able to see the cue ball a little more precisely we can gain more from focusing on what we see a little better rather than the target downrange?

Perhaps food for thought, perhaps idle speculation.

Hu
 
I first get my down range target. The point the object ball needs to be struck by the cue ball. While standing the aim is contact point to contact point for me. My training (practice) has me standing at address at a measured location in relation to the cue ball. Once I establish the line, I set the shooting platform with my focus on the object ball. As the bridge is set I check the cue ball. Survey the strike point on the cue ball and the path I expect it will take. Once set the feather stroke needs to be straight and on the line of aim. The analysis needs to confirm all's well. Once confirmed the mechanics will take care of the down range as long as I execute the strike to precision.
Center ball provides the simplest calculation. Any time side is involved the speed and spin factor adds degrees of difficulty. Either way once the calculations are done, the mechanics need to be consistent.
Whether it's a simple problem or algebra hard, I get the most correct solutions watching the cue ball as I strike it. My focus stays with the cue ball on it's journey.
 
you may be over thinking it some greg. but you know better for yourself than someone else does. so stick with it.
we all age and lose our speed. you were pretty good years back when you were waltzing around oregon and washington playing.
 
gregcantrall said:
I first get my down range target. The point the object ball needs to be struck by the cue ball. While standing the aim is contact point to contact point for me. My training (practice) has me standing at address at a measured location in relation to the cue ball. Once I establish the line, I set the shooting platform with my focus on the object ball. As the bridge is set I check the cue ball. Survey the strike point on the cue ball and the path I expect it will take. Once set the feather stroke needs to be straight and on the line of aim. The analysis needs to confirm all's well. Once confirmed the mechanics will take care of the down range as long as I execute the strike to precision.
Center ball provides the simplest calculation. Any time side is involved the speed and spin factor adds degrees of difficulty. Either way once the calculations are done, the mechanics need to be consistent.
Whether it's a simple problem or algebra hard, I get the most correct solutions watching the cue ball as I strike it. My focus stays with the cue ball on it's journey.
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What Greg said.
 
maha said:
you may be over thinking it some greg. but you know better for yourself than someone else does. so stick with it.
we all age and lose our speed. you were pretty good years back when you were waltzing around oregon and washington playing.
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Well, hopefully the only thinking when playing is the strategy or plan. If I am thinking about how to do it, I am struggling. Sitting in the easy chair it's difficult to relate what it is that I do. Shoot when I am in stroke I don't remember anything.😉🤷
The funny part about ageing is, well I feel like I have better skills and more knowledge (well when I remember). Hard to admit I don't have the strength or endurance. A set of push ups would remind me.🤷
 
you were pretty good years back when you were waltzing around oregon and washington playing
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Some of my best dances did come in Lincoln City at the Northwest regional tournaments. My good showings at those tournaments got my Fargo up to 630 (for a week 😉) ok 620-625. Kicked me all the way up to the Masters division, where I had a memorable match with Kenny Dodd playing 8 ball race to 6. At 3-3 he broke and ran. Then I broke dry and he ran that one too. Then he broke and ran to his key ball hanging it in the Jaws of the Diamond pocket, with ball in hand shape on the 8. I won the match, have no recollection of the first two racks. The last rack, I just remember he left me a bait shot that should have led to me being painted into a corner but I ran out instead. He was surprised to say the least.🤷
 
Ronnie vs Mark Allen in this year's World Championship. The break-off usually gives a good look at the eye pattern. The long distance shots are the only ones I have a chance of reading Ronnie. Mark does raise and lower his brow more obviously than Ronnie.

 
I found a few looks at Stephen Hendry's eyes in this video. If he hadn't said he looks at the white last, I wouldn't have guessed. Kind of like Ronnie hard to see the eye pattern. His discussion was to the effect of the pause is to look at the object ball but eyes are on the white last.
 
gregcantrall said:
I found a few looks at Stephen Hendry's eyes in this video. If he hadn't said he looks at the white last, I wouldn't have guessed. Kind of like Ronnie hard to see the eye pattern. His discussion was to the effect of the pause is to look at the object ball but eyes are on the white last.
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@ 03:36 he's staring at the object ball and wobbles the ball in. Also note how snaky the stroke is/got. I think this is physical distortion traceable to the fist grip and in part attributable to visual bias distortion.
 
He did mention he shot cue ball last of his own accord and then switched at 14 on the advisement of some coach. @ 03:25 he clearly follows the ball into the pocket with at least his left eye. The right eye acts like a fake.
 
straightline said:
He did mention he shot cue ball last of his own accord and then switched at 14 on the advisement of some coach. @ 03:25 he clearly follows the ball into the pocket with at least his left eye. The right eye acts like a fake.
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It was Neil Robertson that mentioned the coach getting him to switch.
The whole video is definitely worth rewatching, the coaching prompted switch comes in around the 2:40 mark. I noticed that Stephen has to be prompted to even mention he is cue ball last. He goes straight to the pause and how it helped him.

I have always found Stephen's commentary to be insightful and educational. I find it one of the greatest values of the snooker productions now made available live through Matchroom. I have subscribed to his new channel and did mention in the comments to an earlier video that I would be interested in the eye sequence. He has provided!!!
 
I put more value in players comments regarding the sequence. (Who you gonna believe, me or your Your Lyin' Eyes?). I found Willie Hoppe's words interesting in the regard that he spoke of a disbelief on the part of others. Even someone stating that he didn't know what he was looking at and when. To which is answer was, "Ok"?! Fine.
I see a lot of that to this day. I see instructor s that have taught the Other and seem to be reluctant to learn . Well "I am a Teacher" the best teachers are learners First.
Well you know What. I have "Gone both ways" and I know what I prefer. Try it. You might like it.🤷 No Worries. I'm not Gay.😉
 
I am seeing eye patterns in the strongest players that would fit what I get from Stephen. Yes even Ronnie! BUTt! I would not hazard to speak as to what he does. However I have heard of him working with Academy. Watching the young and upcoming players is education.
 
Watching for the switch handed as well.

And oh yeah, show me a Pool player that had the discipline to practice daily with 1 ball. And I will show you a Broke Ass pool player practicing in the morning before the bar starts to happen.
Who said that?! Don't talk about my Mama.
 
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