People keep telling me different things and different ways to determine eye dominance. If I make a circle with my thumb and index finger and with both eyes open try to center an object 8-10' away and if I then close my right eye and the object is perfectly centered what eye dominant does that make me?
Eye Dominance
- Thread starter GaryB
- Start date
That would put you left eye dominant if your right eye is closed and the object is perfect center. Do you shoot left handed?
Adam
Adam
No, I am right handed and had always assumed that I was right eye dominant. While doing some background on CTE and reading how it was a visual system I decided that it was important to learn which eye dominant I was. In several other sports I seemed to do things that a left handed person would do. When I long jumped in High School and Jr. College I jumped off my left leg and in swimming I naturally breathed under my left arm when swimming the crawl. In competition I always noticed that in almost all cases right handed people jumped off of their right leg and swimmers usually breathed under their right arm.
We "may" see differently every day but I feel that it is important in pool, especially, to know which is your dominant eye.
We "may" see differently every day but I feel that it is important in pool, especially, to know which is your dominant eye.
The pointing and circle tests don't work......
Ask any eye doctor worth his salt and he will tell you. They are about 50% accurate.
Basically that means they don't work.
You can surely play pool without knowing which eye is dominant but if you want to improve as fast as you can you need to know which one is dominant and know how to position your eyes in the best position to envision the shot as well as humanly possible.
Unless you want to play the best pool of your life as soon as possible it doesn't matter.
Not knowing which eye is dominant and not knowing how to position it in the best way is like saying you don't need to use the sights on the rifle. Just point it and shoot.
How ridiculous would that be.
And that is how ridiculous it is for players that don't know anything about how important this is to say it doesn't matter.
But I guess if you don't know you don't know.
I'll make a deal with you.
Give me a call and I will show you how to find the dominant eye so you will absolutely know it is right for sure.
Just be by a pool table when you call.
Then I will go one step further. I will show you how to use that dominant eye to see the shots better than you ever have in your life.
I've done about 1,000 or so of these over the phone and with great success.
All I ask is you tell your friends how well this works and share your thought on your thread here. Good or Bad.
Fair enough. This will be the most important thing you will ever learn in pool. I guarantee it.
Looking forward to your call. Anytime this weekend after 2:00 PM.
715-563-8712 My name is Gene. The Perfect Aim guy....
Ask any eye doctor worth his salt and he will tell you. They are about 50% accurate.
Basically that means they don't work.
You can surely play pool without knowing which eye is dominant but if you want to improve as fast as you can you need to know which one is dominant and know how to position your eyes in the best position to envision the shot as well as humanly possible.
Unless you want to play the best pool of your life as soon as possible it doesn't matter.
Not knowing which eye is dominant and not knowing how to position it in the best way is like saying you don't need to use the sights on the rifle. Just point it and shoot.
How ridiculous would that be.
And that is how ridiculous it is for players that don't know anything about how important this is to say it doesn't matter.
But I guess if you don't know you don't know.
I'll make a deal with you.
Give me a call and I will show you how to find the dominant eye so you will absolutely know it is right for sure.
Just be by a pool table when you call.
Then I will go one step further. I will show you how to use that dominant eye to see the shots better than you ever have in your life.
I've done about 1,000 or so of these over the phone and with great success.
All I ask is you tell your friends how well this works and share your thought on your thread here. Good or Bad.
Fair enough. This will be the most important thing you will ever learn in pool. I guarantee it.
Looking forward to your call. Anytime this weekend after 2:00 PM.
715-563-8712 My name is Gene. The Perfect Aim guy....
Your eye sight is the same everyday.....
You just can't naturally get these eyes in the most correct place to envision the shot the best unless you know where these natural sights are.
This is why your vision seems to change.
The truth of the matter is the brain just does a lousy job of this some days.
Knowing how this works helps the brain sort this out which is a good thing on days that the shots just aren't going in.
This will give you the ability to correct the problem before the whole match or tournament becomes a disaster.
Not knowing is pretty silly when there is a way to do this very well.
It sounds like you might have monocular vision yourself though.
If this is the case you can close your left eye when down on the shot and it will not change.
About 2 to 5% of all players are like this.
You just can't naturally get these eyes in the most correct place to envision the shot the best unless you know where these natural sights are.
This is why your vision seems to change.
The truth of the matter is the brain just does a lousy job of this some days.
Knowing how this works helps the brain sort this out which is a good thing on days that the shots just aren't going in.
This will give you the ability to correct the problem before the whole match or tournament becomes a disaster.
Not knowing is pretty silly when there is a way to do this very well.
It sounds like you might have monocular vision yourself though.
If this is the case you can close your left eye when down on the shot and it will not change.
About 2 to 5% of all players are like this.
From a prior thread
In a prior thread the complications in eye dominance were discussed (See http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=297099 )
Several scientific studies were referenced and discussed. Probably the most important finding is that eye dominance shifts over distance to the target. The size of the image on the retina is the primary cause for this shift. The amount of shift changes for different distances.
While the player may have a preferred head placement the eyes will accommodate as needed.
I developed a method for determining head placement (relative to the cue stick) as referenced on Dr Dave's resource page but have since come up with a method that is better and allows for the complications discussed here.
Have the player place the cue stick on the long rail over the intersection between the table and the rail cloth. Sight down this line to the side pocket and see where the head is relative to the stick. Now have the player sight the stick to the corner pocket and determine head placement. Interestingly the head placement is not always the same for the two different sightings. The "best" head placement is usually relative to sighting the corner pocket,
In my opinion the player should sight the OB as they bend over (far point eye dominance needs) and look at the cue ball after they have bent all the way over.
Other studies have shown that eye dominance often (not always) shifts as one moves across the lateral field (from right to left and from left to right). For this reason the player should not sight a shot until they are behind the cue ball and take a step back. However, because eye dominance shifts with image size the player should not stop looking at the OB until they reach the shooting position.
These recommendations are based on studies of how binocular vision works in humans.
Given the vagaries of eye dominance over distance and lateral gaze I am of the opinion that placement of the cue under the chin (along the mid line of the head) is the "best" placement for the player (unless there is some physiological anomaly). We use the mid line for accommodation throughout life and the body naturally makes its adjustments relative to this line. However, there are many reasons for adjusting this reference point based on the body's needs and the physiological limits of each individual eye.
After reviewing the head placement used by several pro players it also appears that one needs to have the front plane of the face at a right angle to the cue stick. That is, no matter what the location of the head relative to the stick, both eyes should have the same 90 degree angle relative to the stick.
Incidentally, Earl Strickland is one of the few players who often (not always) sight length of table shots with one eye and sights close shots with two eyes. Obviously, there are all sorts of ways to sight a cue stick.
In a prior thread the complications in eye dominance were discussed (See http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=297099 )
Several scientific studies were referenced and discussed. Probably the most important finding is that eye dominance shifts over distance to the target. The size of the image on the retina is the primary cause for this shift. The amount of shift changes for different distances.
While the player may have a preferred head placement the eyes will accommodate as needed.
I developed a method for determining head placement (relative to the cue stick) as referenced on Dr Dave's resource page but have since come up with a method that is better and allows for the complications discussed here.
Have the player place the cue stick on the long rail over the intersection between the table and the rail cloth. Sight down this line to the side pocket and see where the head is relative to the stick. Now have the player sight the stick to the corner pocket and determine head placement. Interestingly the head placement is not always the same for the two different sightings. The "best" head placement is usually relative to sighting the corner pocket,
In my opinion the player should sight the OB as they bend over (far point eye dominance needs) and look at the cue ball after they have bent all the way over.
Other studies have shown that eye dominance often (not always) shifts as one moves across the lateral field (from right to left and from left to right). For this reason the player should not sight a shot until they are behind the cue ball and take a step back. However, because eye dominance shifts with image size the player should not stop looking at the OB until they reach the shooting position.
These recommendations are based on studies of how binocular vision works in humans.
Given the vagaries of eye dominance over distance and lateral gaze I am of the opinion that placement of the cue under the chin (along the mid line of the head) is the "best" placement for the player (unless there is some physiological anomaly). We use the mid line for accommodation throughout life and the body naturally makes its adjustments relative to this line. However, there are many reasons for adjusting this reference point based on the body's needs and the physiological limits of each individual eye.
After reviewing the head placement used by several pro players it also appears that one needs to have the front plane of the face at a right angle to the cue stick. That is, no matter what the location of the head relative to the stick, both eyes should have the same 90 degree angle relative to the stick.
Incidentally, Earl Strickland is one of the few players who often (not always) sight length of table shots with one eye and sights close shots with two eyes. Obviously, there are all sorts of ways to sight a cue stick.
My findings with ocular vision with actual pool players...
I've read many of the links that you've looked at to find the answers here.
My facts come from hard core helping players find what works best for them.
First a person with ocular vision has no choice. They cannot see the shot the same as other players. If they try to they get a terrible headache. In fact there is info on the internet that some people get migraines and they blame it on their ocular vision.
I didn't just read a study and put this down. I have seen this with 100's of ocular players that I have worked with. Many of them would say as soon as they try to move the cue towards the middle like other players they seem to get a headache. They just can't do it.
If we lose an eye it takes awhile for the brain to rewire to see well with that one eye like ocular vision. That's why players with binocular vision don't see well when they close one eye and move it over. The natural process takes awhile.
When I work with players that have ocular vision I don't try to reinvent the wheel but just show them how to work with what they have.
By working with some of the top players in the country with ocular vision I could see a definite pattern. The better ocular players do it this way and that. The bad ones not.
By teaching the techniques that the better ocular vision players use the results are very good teaching this to the players that were struggling.
These players don't have anyone to help them at all. Many teachers don't even understand that these players have no choice but to put the cue directly under the dominant eye to envision the shot correctly. Their dominant eye is directly wired to their brain so to speak. It's just the way it is. I'm not guessing or just reading about it.
As far as using the stick to line up to something. Anyone can come down on a shot without the cueball there, object ball only and have it look perfect right off the bat. . In fact I try to teach players to pretend the cue ball isn't even there. Keep it in the peripheral vision.
Players with ocular vision have to line up with the dominant eye correct in the preshot and keep it there all the way down into the shot looking only at the OB.
This is how every player that has ocular vision aims if they want to be successful.
Some of the info out there is good but it doesn't really pertain to the challenges we face trying to aim a shot. Especially when it comes to ocular vision.
A whole new book of rules for these players.
Once these players that have ocular vision see the correct ways that they need to envision the shot their aiming ability skyrockets.
Results speak volumes for sure.
I've read many of the links that you've looked at to find the answers here.
My facts come from hard core helping players find what works best for them.
First a person with ocular vision has no choice. They cannot see the shot the same as other players. If they try to they get a terrible headache. In fact there is info on the internet that some people get migraines and they blame it on their ocular vision.
I didn't just read a study and put this down. I have seen this with 100's of ocular players that I have worked with. Many of them would say as soon as they try to move the cue towards the middle like other players they seem to get a headache. They just can't do it.
If we lose an eye it takes awhile for the brain to rewire to see well with that one eye like ocular vision. That's why players with binocular vision don't see well when they close one eye and move it over. The natural process takes awhile.
When I work with players that have ocular vision I don't try to reinvent the wheel but just show them how to work with what they have.
By working with some of the top players in the country with ocular vision I could see a definite pattern. The better ocular players do it this way and that. The bad ones not.
By teaching the techniques that the better ocular vision players use the results are very good teaching this to the players that were struggling.
These players don't have anyone to help them at all. Many teachers don't even understand that these players have no choice but to put the cue directly under the dominant eye to envision the shot correctly. Their dominant eye is directly wired to their brain so to speak. It's just the way it is. I'm not guessing or just reading about it.
As far as using the stick to line up to something. Anyone can come down on a shot without the cueball there, object ball only and have it look perfect right off the bat. . In fact I try to teach players to pretend the cue ball isn't even there. Keep it in the peripheral vision.
Players with ocular vision have to line up with the dominant eye correct in the preshot and keep it there all the way down into the shot looking only at the OB.
This is how every player that has ocular vision aims if they want to be successful.
Some of the info out there is good but it doesn't really pertain to the challenges we face trying to aim a shot. Especially when it comes to ocular vision.
A whole new book of rules for these players.
Once these players that have ocular vision see the correct ways that they need to envision the shot their aiming ability skyrockets.
Results speak volumes for sure.
A lot depends on the condition of your eyes to start with. I was born with eye problems that left me with good vision in my left eye and poor vision in my right eye. So, I became left eye dominant. I'm right handed; so when aiming at things I have to take the parallax error into consideration that equal strength eyed people correct for automatically. Also, one weak and one strong eye results in poor depth perception.
I have learned to compensate for that too over the years. Does it affect my pool playing? Yes, somewhat - especially on long shots. However, playing pool and other things I do help exercise my eyes and result in better vision. I had to relearn some things after having cataract surgery on both eyes a couple of years ago. I guess that for those with equal eye strength their dominant eye will be the one on the same side as their dominant hand. The good news, is since my left eye is the "good" eye - I shoot some shots left handed instead of using a bridge. It takes some practice and feels strange in the beginning but I'd rather not use a bridge now.
I have learned to compensate for that too over the years. Does it affect my pool playing? Yes, somewhat - especially on long shots. However, playing pool and other things I do help exercise my eyes and result in better vision. I had to relearn some things after having cataract surgery on both eyes a couple of years ago. I guess that for those with equal eye strength their dominant eye will be the one on the same side as their dominant hand. The good news, is since my left eye is the "good" eye - I shoot some shots left handed instead of using a bridge. It takes some practice and feels strange in the beginning but I'd rather not use a bridge now.
You are correct on this distance thing for sure.....
When a player is in the preshot eye dominance doesn't even matter with the exception of the players with ocular vision which effects only about 3% to 5% of all people.
But us other 97% of the people have the normal eye dominance that really causes havoc with the ability to aim. With the main problem of the non dominant eye trying to share the dominant eyes job. This problem cannot be fixed unless you know how to stop it from happening.
In the preshot eye dominance will seem to not make a difference. But we need to have the dominant eye in the correct position up there to have the correct look for each individual player. If you don't know which eye is dominant when you are down on the shot there is no way to know the most correct position up above in the preshot.
With this I agree. At the longer distance eye dominance doesn't seem to have a bearing on how well we see the shot. Down in the shooting position the dominant eye has to be in the correct position for the player or the shot will not look right at all.
A person can look at all the studies they want and guess all they want.
With over 10,000 mini lessons and full lessons and working with players finding dominant eyes I don't need to look at these studies to know what is right and what is wrong.
I have seen it with my own eyes. The players I show know that it is right when I show them because they can see it with their own eyes also.
I really do have the answer to everyones aiming problems.
What I teach is so right that it's like turning on the light.
When the light is on it is on. No doubt that the light is on and everyone can see that the light is on so they would all agree that the light is on.
The same when the light is off.
The same with this eye dominance trouble we all have trying to aim. It is that cut and dried. There is no confusion. It is only this way or that. Nobody has to guess .
With this aiming it is not so easy. There are so many theories on how this is and everyone seems to think they have the answer, so when someone really has the answer the real deal gets lost in the rubble.
Many teachers and players even move the feet or stance around thinking that this has something to do with the aiming when in reality they are just accidently getting the eyes right.
I didn't reinvent the wheel but just show players how to envision each and every shot 100% correctly for their eye dominance.
You get the right picture to the brain and it's amazing how well we can all envision the shot better.
Perfect Aim shows a player how to do this.
But it's kind of lost in the rubble as I said.
But yes you are right. Distance does matter when it comes to eye dominance. I didn't need to read it from a book. In fact I could write a book that would be 100% correct on this subject pertaining to eye dominance and how it pertains to a players aiming perception of a pool shot.
It's just the way the eyes work naturally.
It can be taught and it is.
When a player is in the preshot eye dominance doesn't even matter with the exception of the players with ocular vision which effects only about 3% to 5% of all people.
But us other 97% of the people have the normal eye dominance that really causes havoc with the ability to aim. With the main problem of the non dominant eye trying to share the dominant eyes job. This problem cannot be fixed unless you know how to stop it from happening.
In the preshot eye dominance will seem to not make a difference. But we need to have the dominant eye in the correct position up there to have the correct look for each individual player. If you don't know which eye is dominant when you are down on the shot there is no way to know the most correct position up above in the preshot.
With this I agree. At the longer distance eye dominance doesn't seem to have a bearing on how well we see the shot. Down in the shooting position the dominant eye has to be in the correct position for the player or the shot will not look right at all.
A person can look at all the studies they want and guess all they want.
With over 10,000 mini lessons and full lessons and working with players finding dominant eyes I don't need to look at these studies to know what is right and what is wrong.
I have seen it with my own eyes. The players I show know that it is right when I show them because they can see it with their own eyes also.
I really do have the answer to everyones aiming problems.
What I teach is so right that it's like turning on the light.
When the light is on it is on. No doubt that the light is on and everyone can see that the light is on so they would all agree that the light is on.
The same when the light is off.
The same with this eye dominance trouble we all have trying to aim. It is that cut and dried. There is no confusion. It is only this way or that. Nobody has to guess .
With this aiming it is not so easy. There are so many theories on how this is and everyone seems to think they have the answer, so when someone really has the answer the real deal gets lost in the rubble.
Many teachers and players even move the feet or stance around thinking that this has something to do with the aiming when in reality they are just accidently getting the eyes right.
I didn't reinvent the wheel but just show players how to envision each and every shot 100% correctly for their eye dominance.
You get the right picture to the brain and it's amazing how well we can all envision the shot better.
Perfect Aim shows a player how to do this.
But it's kind of lost in the rubble as I said.
But yes you are right. Distance does matter when it comes to eye dominance. I didn't need to read it from a book. In fact I could write a book that would be 100% correct on this subject pertaining to eye dominance and how it pertains to a players aiming perception of a pool shot.
It's just the way the eyes work naturally.
It can be taught and it is.
Gene,
I agree with your idea about locating the dominant eye in the driver's seat to be consistent in ball pocketing. I played for years not even realizing I had a dominant eye. I paid the price with my game going up and down and never knowing why I had trouble with certain shots.
As my head position changes, my subconscious mind compensates for the incorrect alignment and steers the cue stick. My stroke deteriorates on bad nights and my ball pocketing really suffers. When I get my eyes in the right position, I feel like I could never miss, again! :smile:
Many players are lucky enough to never have the same problem I do. They can see the shot without worrying about a dominant eye. You explain your thoughts to them and they look at you like you're nuts and just creating a problem for yourself. They'll never understand that we all see things differently.
Putting the stick under my chin and letting nature take its course didn't work for me and I'm sure it doesn't work for many others. If that's what players do and it works for them, great! One size doesn't fit all. We are all built differently. Our perception is different. To all instructors and authors out there...get with the program. There is a group of people who don't see what you see! Don't dismiss us as stirring up trouble in the pool world. If you were really interested you would put more research into this phenomena and quit telling us to put the cue under our chins and let the brain figure it out. Vague bs, non-answer. Do I need an instructor to tell me that? It's just an opinion like, "keep your eye on the ball."
I've figured out in the last couple of years ways to combat dominant eye problems. They work, but get panned on this forum. Maybe 1 in 10 has these same issues, but they'll never know because the status quo is still in the dismissive, "cue under the chin," mindset. No real reason why except to let the brain figure it out. Then why do we worry about stroke training? Give them a cue, point them in the right direction and let nature take its course. It's the same thing, isn't it?
Keep working and "Perfect"ing it, Gene. The rest of the pool world will catch up in the future. In the meantime, the people that don't have the dominant eye issues will never understand and become the biggest critics. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means they don't "see" what you're talking about and probably won't for the fore"see"able future. :grin:
Best,
Mike
I agree with your idea about locating the dominant eye in the driver's seat to be consistent in ball pocketing. I played for years not even realizing I had a dominant eye. I paid the price with my game going up and down and never knowing why I had trouble with certain shots.
As my head position changes, my subconscious mind compensates for the incorrect alignment and steers the cue stick. My stroke deteriorates on bad nights and my ball pocketing really suffers. When I get my eyes in the right position, I feel like I could never miss, again! :smile:
Many players are lucky enough to never have the same problem I do. They can see the shot without worrying about a dominant eye. You explain your thoughts to them and they look at you like you're nuts and just creating a problem for yourself. They'll never understand that we all see things differently.
Putting the stick under my chin and letting nature take its course didn't work for me and I'm sure it doesn't work for many others. If that's what players do and it works for them, great! One size doesn't fit all. We are all built differently. Our perception is different. To all instructors and authors out there...get with the program. There is a group of people who don't see what you see! Don't dismiss us as stirring up trouble in the pool world. If you were really interested you would put more research into this phenomena and quit telling us to put the cue under our chins and let the brain figure it out. Vague bs, non-answer. Do I need an instructor to tell me that? It's just an opinion like, "keep your eye on the ball."
I've figured out in the last couple of years ways to combat dominant eye problems. They work, but get panned on this forum. Maybe 1 in 10 has these same issues, but they'll never know because the status quo is still in the dismissive, "cue under the chin," mindset. No real reason why except to let the brain figure it out. Then why do we worry about stroke training? Give them a cue, point them in the right direction and let nature take its course. It's the same thing, isn't it?
Keep working and "Perfect"ing it, Gene. The rest of the pool world will catch up in the future. In the meantime, the people that don't have the dominant eye issues will never understand and become the biggest critics. That doesn't mean you're wrong, it just means they don't "see" what you're talking about and probably won't for the fore"see"able future. :grin:
Best,
Mike
There is no discussion with people who absolutely know. For my part I prefer the reasonably unbiased replicated empirical findings from qualified observers. But then, I have nothing to sell, only ideas for thoughtful minds to consider.
My contributions to this thread are completed.
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I do absolutely know.......
See the results, read about 2,000 testimonials Joe.
Just because I made a video to help people, you got to be kidding
How many of these Unbiased empirical findings play pool or even touch a cue stick.
I have been on the road teaching and learning more about this everyday.
It takes a few minutes to but put a theory on paper but it take a lifetime sometimes to make a huge discovery that nobody has ever figured out before. At 60 years old I am trying to share this with players that can use it a lifetime.
I feel bad when people try to discredit what I teach because I have a video or they really don't understand how it really looks.
I think there is a big bird that when feels threatened puts it's head in the sand thinking they are safe. Is that true.
I don't know how to spell it though
The word is too big. I'm just a pool player that knows exactly how to aim.........
Oh ya. And I made a video. So what?
When I show players how the eyes work there is no confusion why they had trouble aiming before. They can see what the problem was with their own eyes.
The secret is they can see it.............
See the results, read about 2,000 testimonials Joe.
Just because I made a video to help people, you got to be kidding
How many of these Unbiased empirical findings play pool or even touch a cue stick.
I have been on the road teaching and learning more about this everyday.
It takes a few minutes to but put a theory on paper but it take a lifetime sometimes to make a huge discovery that nobody has ever figured out before. At 60 years old I am trying to share this with players that can use it a lifetime.
I feel bad when people try to discredit what I teach because I have a video or they really don't understand how it really looks.
I think there is a big bird that when feels threatened puts it's head in the sand thinking they are safe. Is that true.
I don't know how to spell it though
The word is too big. I'm just a pool player that knows exactly how to aim.........
Oh ya. And I made a video. So what?
When I show players how the eyes work there is no confusion why they had trouble aiming before. They can see what the problem was with their own eyes.
The secret is they can see it.............
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So none of the regular tests are accurate--or at least no more than 50%. So even though I consistently center an object while closing my right eye I can still be right eyed dominant? Weird. I really thought that there would be a simple answer but somehow we got really off topic but that was really no big surprise. I had one person say that the test made me left eye dominant and the rest wanted me to do something altogether different and then we went to "ocular." No simple test or answer?
Gene I will call you early next week but closer to 6pm your time as I am on the West Coast. Please bear in mind that I am going through this because I am committed to learning CTE. I saw your 1st DVD and respect your knowledge of how the eyes work but I have that goal in mind.
Any other opinions out there?
Gene I will call you early next week but closer to 6pm your time as I am on the West Coast. Please bear in mind that I am going through this because I am committed to learning CTE. I saw your 1st DVD and respect your knowledge of how the eyes work but I have that goal in mind.
Any other opinions out there?
A Simple Experiment
On a 9 foot table place a 4 or 5 foot straight edge diagonally on the table in line with a corner pocket. Now place an OB and QB about 2 feet apart against the straight edge. Realign the straight edge and the balls as necessary so that the balls are physically straight in to the corner pocket.
Stand behind the QB, about a cue sticks distance, don't look at the QB yet, while looking at the OB align your body until your eyes tell you that you are seeing the OB straight into the corner pocket.
When you feel that you are alined properly look down at the QB, do your eyes tell you the QB is in line with the OB or do your eyes tell you that the QB appears to be off to the left or right of the OB.
When I do this experiment the QB appears not to be straight in with the OB, even though I know that the OB and QB are physically aligned with the corner pocket, instead the QB appears to be about a quarter ball off to my left.
Can someone who has conducted this experiment comment on what they believe is going on with the eyes. I do know that as an objects distance increases that my eye dominance moves from the center of my right closer to the bridge of my nose (inline with the right eye tear duct.
I do practice what Joe W states by not taking my eye off of the OB contact point until I am in the shooting position, I guess I have always done this.......don't know.
John :smile:
On a 9 foot table place a 4 or 5 foot straight edge diagonally on the table in line with a corner pocket. Now place an OB and QB about 2 feet apart against the straight edge. Realign the straight edge and the balls as necessary so that the balls are physically straight in to the corner pocket.
Stand behind the QB, about a cue sticks distance, don't look at the QB yet, while looking at the OB align your body until your eyes tell you that you are seeing the OB straight into the corner pocket.
When you feel that you are alined properly look down at the QB, do your eyes tell you the QB is in line with the OB or do your eyes tell you that the QB appears to be off to the left or right of the OB.
When I do this experiment the QB appears not to be straight in with the OB, even though I know that the OB and QB are physically aligned with the corner pocket, instead the QB appears to be about a quarter ball off to my left.
Can someone who has conducted this experiment comment on what they believe is going on with the eyes. I do know that as an objects distance increases that my eye dominance moves from the center of my right closer to the bridge of my nose (inline with the right eye tear duct.
I do practice what Joe W states by not taking my eye off of the OB contact point until I am in the shooting position, I guess I have always done this.......don't know.
John :smile:
John,
I've done many tests like this one. Your results are that you're right eye dominant, but lining up your shots with your left eye as the dominant eye. When you start out with this as your first look at the shot, you're done. The brain is tenacious when it aims, no matter which eye sees the shot first. It will work with the info you've given to it and say the shot looks good, even though you aren't lined up correctly. Hello, steering the cue.
I keep my dominant right eye, dominant by starting my PSR well back of the table to get my first glance at the correct alignment. At a distance, the eyes are more binocular and don't fight for dominance. As I move into the shot and aim, I make sure my right eye is at least equally if not more forward and aiming the shot. The left is there helping, but not in charge.
Short cut shots can be the toughest of all. They are simple and you step into them not really worrying about aiming. I've ended many a run with the easiest shots because I didn't take the time to get my right eye in the correct place. :angry:
I shot for years not knowing this information and like many others, rode the roller coaster of consistency. I was able to run over a 100 balls when I was in the right eye positioning, but couldn't run a 30 the next night. I never knew who was going to show up, so I figured I didn't have the mental focus and quit for twenty years. Since I've started to play again, this new info has forced me to start all over and it can be ugly. :grin-square:
I'd like to see more research about eye dominance for the players that need it. Many don't have my problem and that's great! But, for the others that do, valid research rather than anecdotal evidence and hearsay are desperately needed.
Best,
Mike
I've done many tests like this one. Your results are that you're right eye dominant, but lining up your shots with your left eye as the dominant eye. When you start out with this as your first look at the shot, you're done. The brain is tenacious when it aims, no matter which eye sees the shot first. It will work with the info you've given to it and say the shot looks good, even though you aren't lined up correctly. Hello, steering the cue.
I keep my dominant right eye, dominant by starting my PSR well back of the table to get my first glance at the correct alignment. At a distance, the eyes are more binocular and don't fight for dominance. As I move into the shot and aim, I make sure my right eye is at least equally if not more forward and aiming the shot. The left is there helping, but not in charge.
Short cut shots can be the toughest of all. They are simple and you step into them not really worrying about aiming. I've ended many a run with the easiest shots because I didn't take the time to get my right eye in the correct place. :angry:
I shot for years not knowing this information and like many others, rode the roller coaster of consistency. I was able to run over a 100 balls when I was in the right eye positioning, but couldn't run a 30 the next night. I never knew who was going to show up, so I figured I didn't have the mental focus and quit for twenty years. Since I've started to play again, this new info has forced me to start all over and it can be ugly. :grin-square:
I'd like to see more research about eye dominance for the players that need it. Many don't have my problem and that's great! But, for the others that do, valid research rather than anecdotal evidence and hearsay are desperately needed.
Best,
Mike
John,
I've done many tests like this one. Your results are that you're right eye dominant, but lining up your shots with your left eye as the dominant eye. When you start out with this as your first look at the shot, you're done. The brain is tenacious when it aims, no matter which eye sees the shot first. It will work with the info you've given to it and say the shot looks good, even though you aren't lined up correctly. Hello, steering the cue.
I keep my dominant right eye, dominant by starting my PSR well back of the table to get my first glance at the correct alignment. At a distance, the eyes are more binocular and don't fight for dominance. As I move into the shot and aim, I make sure my right eye is at least equally if not more forward and aiming the shot. The left is there helping, but not in charge.
Short cut shots can be the toughest of all. They are simple and you step into them not really worrying about aiming. I've ended many a run with the easiest shots because I didn't take the time to get my right eye in the correct place. :angry:
I shot for years not knowing this information and like many others, rode the roller coaster of consistency. I was able to run over a 100 balls when I was in the right eye positioning, but couldn't run a 30 the next night. I never knew who was going to show up, so I figured I didn't have the mental focus and quit for twenty years. Since I've started to play again, this new info has forced me to start all over and it can be ugly. :grin-square:
I'd like to see more research about eye dominance for the players that need it. Many don't have my problem and that's great! But, for the others that do, valid research rather than anecdotal evidence and hearsay are desperately needed.
Best,
Mike
Thanks Mike. Your information (in Bold type) will help. I'm practicing right now. I'll give it a go.
Just set up the experiment again on my table. Mike you hit the nail on the head with that one. Even though I'm right eye dominant, when I line up the OB my left eye is the one that has positioned my body.
Thanks again.
John
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Ok I'm really confused now ...
When I get down to shoot a perfectly straight shot, I "see" everthing straight, stroke to QB, QB to OB, OB to pocket yet the QB always goes to the right a little.
I was thinking that I may be stroking slightly to the right but after some experimenting this week, I now think its my eyes. I'm not seeing the "truth" if that makes sense.
Anyone ?
When I get down to shoot a perfectly straight shot, I "see" everthing straight, stroke to QB, QB to OB, OB to pocket yet the QB always goes to the right a little.
I was thinking that I may be stroking slightly to the right but after some experimenting this week, I now think its my eyes. I'm not seeing the "truth" if that makes sense.
Anyone ?
After reading and studying the eye dominance problem for awhile here is my solution. It may or may not work for others. First, I have a tendency to be slightly right eye dominant with a preference for the cue under the right side of my nose.
I force myself to shoot with the cue under my chin (center of nose) because I think the brain uses this as a reference point for all body movements, including the swing arm. I find that when I allow my head to drift to the left I tend to miss. This may be because I have trained myself to center the cue.
From one step behind the shot I sight the object ball using the cue stick as a pointer. As I step into the shot I lay the cue stick on this line through the CB to the OB target and the line down which the OB should roll (a nine inch line from about one inch behind the OB to the center of the pocket). My brain adjusts for far target dominance shifts as I bend over. Because I have sighted while standing I am aware of where the line of travel is for the CB as I arrive at the shooting position and make minor adjustments as needed.
Using this technique I “know” that the center on my head is looking straight down the line to the OB and adjust my cue stick as needed.
Probably one of the most important things I have learned (that has improved my consistency in shot making) is to determine where the cue stick will finish when the swing is complete. This determination of the cue stick line of travel all the way down the line my eyes see is the single most important aspect of “seeing” the shot. When I am sure the cue stick is on this line, I look at the OB and its line of travel for about two seconds of warm up strokes before pulling the trigger.
When English is required I off set the cue as needed but continue to see the line of travel for the CB and the stick.
It takes much longer to state what I do than to do it because the whole sighting problem is now “automatic.”
I force myself to shoot with the cue under my chin (center of nose) because I think the brain uses this as a reference point for all body movements, including the swing arm. I find that when I allow my head to drift to the left I tend to miss. This may be because I have trained myself to center the cue.
From one step behind the shot I sight the object ball using the cue stick as a pointer. As I step into the shot I lay the cue stick on this line through the CB to the OB target and the line down which the OB should roll (a nine inch line from about one inch behind the OB to the center of the pocket). My brain adjusts for far target dominance shifts as I bend over. Because I have sighted while standing I am aware of where the line of travel is for the CB as I arrive at the shooting position and make minor adjustments as needed.
Using this technique I “know” that the center on my head is looking straight down the line to the OB and adjust my cue stick as needed.
Probably one of the most important things I have learned (that has improved my consistency in shot making) is to determine where the cue stick will finish when the swing is complete. This determination of the cue stick line of travel all the way down the line my eyes see is the single most important aspect of “seeing” the shot. When I am sure the cue stick is on this line, I look at the OB and its line of travel for about two seconds of warm up strokes before pulling the trigger.
When English is required I off set the cue as needed but continue to see the line of travel for the CB and the stick.
It takes much longer to state what I do than to do it because the whole sighting problem is now “automatic.”
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Thanks Mike. Your information (in Bold type) will help. I'm practicing right now. I'll give it a go.
Just set up the experiment again on my table. Mike you hit the nail on the head with that one. Even though I'm right eye dominant, when I line up the OB my left eye is the one that has positioned my body.
Thanks again.
John
Good news, John! There's a couple of other ways that throw your eyes off of the alignment, too. CJ said it better than I can in a post he made a few weeks ago. Loosely quoting he said that some players bend over into the shot and this causes their head and shoulder alignment to move their eyes off of the shot line.
I was guilty of lining up my shot above the ball and turning down into the shot by rotating my left shoulder forward. This caused my left (non-dominant) eye to pick up the shot after I had already aimed with my right eye. My body was aligned with my right eye and changed as I lowered into the shot. I was in essence, looking across the shot line instead of down the shot line.
One of the most basic fundamentals of aiming is to keep your eye/head position consistent as you lower into the shot. As stated by others, keeping your eye on the object ball is important, but not the only thing. The shot picture can be passed back and forth between the eyes even though the shooter maintains a constant gaze on the object ball. It's imperative that the head does not move off of the shot line. As Gene says, the eyes must be in the correct position and this ensures they are.
I will try and link CJ's posts on the subject because they are exactly on subject here. He went further and cryptically :smile: described a fix for this problem which I know you'll see right away being a student of his methods (not TOI :wink
.Best,
Mike