Eye movements - calling Scott Lee and maybe others

BillPorter

BillPorter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been noticing my eye movements as I shoot and realized that my most common pattern is to focus first on the cue ball as I position my tip near the point on the cue ball I intend to hit. Then I fixated on the object ball and home in on the contact point I need to hit for the shot. On my last warm up stroke, just before the final backstroke, I pause for a fraction of a second with my cue tip near the cue ball and glance at the cue ball, I guess assuring myself that the cue tip is going to contact the cue ball at the intended spot. Then, as I start my final backstroke, I return to a focus on the object ball and try to maintain that focus until I see the cue ball contact the object ball.

I seem to recall Scott Lee making a point about the pattern of eye movements, but I couldn't find a full explanation of his suggestion. Of course, I'm open to anyone else jumping in to critque my pattern or suggestion a different one. Thanks in advance for your contributions!:)
 
I may have misread your post but, I think it is best to bring your focus on the object ball and then start your backstroke. You wan't to be focused on something throughout the whole of your stroke, not shifting focus during the stroke.

If I misread what you said, then just ignore me :).
 
not sure

Cameron Smith said:
I may have misread your post but, I think it is best to bring your focus on the object ball and then start your backstroke. You wan't to be focused on something throughout the whole of your stroke, not shifting focus during the stroke.

If I misread what you said, then just ignore me :).
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I think I shift back to the object ball just before starting my final backstroke, but, until I am back on the pool table, I'm not sure that I don't strart the backstroke a small fraction of a second before shifting focus to the object ball. And it might make a different in shot making to have your focus on the object ball throughout your final backstroke. Thanks for the input!
 
From everything I've been taught, that sounds like a very good system, although one thing I would comment on is you mention looking at the CB for tip placement, then the OB for aim, and then you're at your final backswing. I think it's important during your practice strokes to go back on forth between CB tip placement and OB aim point multiple times to ensure that the same stroke goes toward both points. I find that when I'm not in dead stroke, sometimes I'll line up with center ball, then look at the OB to find my point of aim, then look back at the CB and find out I'm not on center ball anymore. I need several switches of focus back and forth between CB and OB before I've got the right english AND the right aim aligned at the same time.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
From everything I've been taught, that sounds like a very good system, although one thing I would comment on is you mention looking at the CB for tip placement, then the OB for aim, and then you're at your final backswing. I think it's important during your practice strokes to go back on forth between CB tip placement and OB aim point multiple times to ensure that the same stroke goes toward both points. I find that when I'm not in dead stroke, sometimes I'll line up with center ball, then look at the OB to find my point of aim, then look back at the CB and find out I'm not on center ball anymore. I need several switches of focus back and forth between CB and OB before I've got the right english AND the right aim aligned at the same time.

-Andrew
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I used to use more back and forth eye movements, but it seems like my ball making has improved since I switched to staying focused on the OB more. Of course, I see what you mean about having your cue tip stray from its initial placement, and that may well happen with me from time to time.
 
My understanding is that it is often helpful to move your eyes to focus on the object ball at the "set" position. Different people have different eye patterns, but keep in mind that there is a time requirement of several seconds required for the eyes to really focus clearly. Moving your eyes to the OB at the set position provides adequate focus time prior to actually stroking the cue.
 
I don't think Scott or Randy will give this one away for free since it is a part of what is taught in pool school.
 
BillPorter said:
I have been noticing my eye movements as I shoot and realized that my most common pattern is to focus first on the cue ball as I position my tip near the point on the cue ball I intend to hit. Then I fixated on the object ball and home in on the contact point I need to hit for the shot. On my last warm up stroke, just before the final backstroke, I pause for a fraction of a second with my cue tip near the cue ball and glance at the cue ball, I guess assuring myself that the cue tip is going to contact the cue ball at the intended spot. Then, as I start my final backstroke, I return to a focus on the object ball and try to maintain that focus until I see the cue ball contact the object ball.

I seem to recall Scott Lee making a point about the pattern of eye movements, but I couldn't find a full explanation of his suggestion. Of course, I'm open to anyone else jumping in to critque my pattern or suggestion a different one. Thanks in advance for your contributions!:)
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Pool School teaches three distinct eye patterns (maybe more, but we were shown three) and what the eyes should be doing when doing the patterns. Looking up while you pull back your last stroke is discussed.

Fred
 
Andrew Manning said:
I think it's important during your practice strokes to go back on forth between CB tip placement and OB aim point multiple times to ensure that the same stroke goes toward both points.
-Andrew
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I would caution against switching your focus back and forth while you are doing your warm-up strokes. Your hands naturally want to follow your eyes. If you are moving the cue toward the cue ball, and let your eyes move up table to the object ball, there is a possibility your hand my push the cue a bit more forward and fouling during your warm-ups.
If you need to look up, stop your cue movement first.
Steve
 
What about focusing on the pocket you intend to fire the ball into when you pull the trigger?
 
My description was not quite accurate

I just came back from the pool hall where I realized that my description of my eye movements was not quite accurate. I found that more often than not, I went back and forth two or three times from CB to OB before locking in on the OB.
 
Great thread as I have been having some problem with eye movement lately.
 
look out MNshooter...here it is...FOR FREE

BillPorter said:
I just came back from the pool hall where I realized that my description of my eye movements was not quite accurate. I found that more often than not, I went back and forth two or three times from CB to OB before locking in on the OB.
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Bill...This is extremely common, and most players, even experts, have no idea what kind of eye movements they are plagued with. This is not SECRET information, and yes, it is part of what we teach at pool school. It's just not well understood by most players. We use close up video to show, in detail, what's happening with a players eyes, and then teach them how to TRAIN themselves to use one of two personal eye patterns (we used to teach three, Fred...now just the first and last). The two P.E.P.'s that we suggest, are: eyes focused on the OB, at the "set" position; or, eyes focused on the OB, at the "pause" position. Either one works well, and we help you to decide which is better for you. I'd be more than happy to work with you, the next time I come to Cincinnati, on this problem, and any others you like.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Pugh said:
Great thread as I have been having some problem with eye movement lately.
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Riley...This is just one of many things that I will work on, with both you and your wife, when I come out to see you. I hope to be out there right after Derby City. You'll be hearing from me soon! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
I'm most comfortable lining up on the shot and focusing in on the CB during my warmup strokes (I use 2) then shifting my vision to the OB (at set) before I pull the trigger.
Solving the bouncing eyes problem (I didn't even know it was a problem) and getting a fixed preshot routine have helped my game and shot confidence immensly. Thanks Scott....
Now if I can get the speed under better control I'll be golden...

Scott.....You need to send me a few business cards. I gave the one you left with me to a guy at the pool hall. Your visit there generated some interest...

McCue Banger McCue
 
Thanks, Scott

Scott Lee said:
Bill...This is extremely common, and most players, even experts, have no idea what kind of eye movements they are plagued with. This is not SECRET information, and yes, it is part of what we teach at pool school. It's just not well understood by most players. We use close up video to show, in detail, what's happening with a players eyes, and then teach them how to TRAIN themselves to use one of two personal eye patterns (we used to teach three, Fred...now just the first and last). The two P.E.P.'s that we suggest, are: eyes focused on the OB, at the "set" position; or, eyes focused on the OB, at the "pause" position. Either one works well, and we help you to decide which is better for you. I'd be more than happy to work with you, the next time I come to Cincinnati, on this problem, and any others you like.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott, thanks for the input on this one. It's nice having a top pool instructor checking in on this forum. Hope to see you when you next come through this area.
 
Dead Money said:
What about focusing on the pocket you intend to fire the ball into when you pull the trigger?
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WHY?????

What's the pocket got to do with the shot?????

Focus (2-seconds) on the target ball then "pull the trigger.....SPF=randyg
 
Of all Instructors, Scott knows the eye patterns well. You posters listen to Scott and he can improve your game over night.....SPF=randyg
 
Scott Lee said:
...or, eyes focused on the OB, at the "pause" position...
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I'm assuming "pause" is the moment right before the shooting arm begins to move forward to stroke the CB. So does the above imply that your eyes are focusing on the CB as you are cocking your shooting arm back and that your eyes switch to the OB at the pause? Thanks.
 
jsp said:
I'm assuming "pause" is the moment right before the shooting arm begins to move forward to stroke the CB. So does the above imply that your eyes are focusing on the CB as you are cocking your shooting arm back and that your eyes switch to the OB at the pause? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I've heard Allison Fisher say in an interview that she uses the eye pattern you're describing. Her eyes come to fully focus on the OB during the pause at the end of her backswing.

-Andrew
 
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