Fake 314-2 Shafts

[poolchady]

Common guys. 10 years ago I was the "slim" Chady ok!! I only gained abouth 60 pounds and you guys think I am not slim. Gee~~

Actually if you dig a little bit deeper, you would realize that there is no 100% predator counterfeit. Although Predator claimed that they use Titan and XTC for their ferrules, The material they use actually have different colors than the regular ones we could easily obtain from Atlas. Those Predator factories all sign NDAs with Predator which means they could not sell the material without Predator's apporoval. Mr. Soong, seriously, you don't even have the expertise to tell the difference between genuine and knockoffs, how did you know the shaft you saw is fake? Another "rumor" said ?

Soong just texted me about 10 minutes ago. He claimed that he did not "accuse" me of making knock offs. I guess what he was trying to address was it's "imply", not "accuse". I got confused too. Is this metaphor or oxymoron ? Does that mean when you "implied" someone of doing something you don't have to take responsibility if it's not true? I think it's worse than accusation. At least by accusing you have to bring up the evidence or proof you are right. Implication sucks.

Hey Blue Hog rider, dont bog yourself down with the chalk thing would you ? It's been a long time and I am actually losing money on that transaction. If you had issues with the seller (or buyer), it's natural to go through the paypal dispute process. I don't know why you are so mad about this. I already forgot the whole thing until you brought that up today. Over the past 16 years I sold cues and accessories to Europe, Russia, Ukraine, Ivory Coast, Chile, Germany, USA, Canada.... and about 40 more countries. Like I said, most people are decent and reasonable. I don't think it's a matter of which country the seller is from.

To JV, it's been 15 years and you couldn't spell my nickname ? it's Chady not Shady.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

@Blue Hog Ridr: I never said it "IS" Chady. I said, from what I've heard, its a bunch of Taiwanese and Chady in China. And u "assumed" it was Chady himself.

I never assumed anything Timothy. I kept both PMs from yourself to me. Do you need a refresher?

Chady. The transaction was for $234.
The first email I received from you was to accuse me of having Buyers Remorse.

None of the such. I didn't refuse to send the chalk back to you. You wanted me to send it to an address in Florida. I refused to do that as I wanted the item to go back to the exact address that it came from. If that contributed to your confusion re myself refusing to send the chalk back, then that is where that came from.

You initially refused to refund on the grounds that you don't do refunds on International orders.

When the order was taking too long, approx a month to get to you, I checked back with you. You said in an email that according to your local Post Office and the tracking number, the item hadn't left Canada yet.

Within a day or two after, I received confirmation that the package had arrived and was picked up by yourself.

There was no Buyers Remorse. The chalk was hard as a rock. A person wouldn't have been able to apply chalk if the tip was made from concrete.

Other than that, I would have been happy to keep the chalk.

In his first PM to myself,John was the one who suggested that, and he used the word, "Hate", was the reason that I supposedly sided with Timothy re his Thread.

That is why I posted in this Thread that Hate was a pretty strong word and as far as I was concerned, Water Under the bridge, as it was a few years ago.

But, I do like how people tend to not get the truth right when openly confronted in public, right Timmy.

BTW Chady. As I mentioned, I have both PMs from Timothy. Seeing how Timothy was willing to throw me under the bus, so to speak, and say that I was only assuming, I would be happy to Forward you both PMs, so you can read them in their entirety and complete with no edits. Just so you know that there was no assuming on my part anyway, and that your name was mentioned in both PMs.

Timothy mentioned information that I wouldn't know and would be pretty difficult for myself to make up. Considering that I am in Canada and he doesn't exactly live down the street.

See what happens when you are dishonest Timothy? It can come back and bite you in the butt when you least expect it.

Are you still the manager of a pool hall where customers give you all this info?

 

[i8ap4t]

from what I've heard Chady know these guys or he could be involved.[/B]

I believe that Mr Soong should not have mentioned Chady's name without anything more than a "I've heard". But in having said that, my understanding is that it was via PM, and he clearly stated that Chady know's the guys involved, or could be involved himself, not that Chady was the one who introduced the option of purchasing fake predators to him.

Obviously I don't have the PM's at my disposal, but my point is that everything seems to have snowballed from Chady possibly knowing about it, to him being the ringleader. Chinese wispers anyone?

I think this should be dropped. And I will happily be the hypocrite that mentions that we should keep this thread on the topic of counterfits in the marketplace, and stray from the he said she said crap.

 

[i8ap4t]

When people asked are any of these Taiwanese AZ-related, I mentioned, from what I've heard Chady know these guys or he could be involved.

I believe that Mr Soong should not have mentioned Chady's name without anything more than a "I've heard". But in having said that, my understanding is that it was via PM, and he clearly stated that Chady know's the guys involved, or could be involved himself, not that Chady was the one who introduced the option of purchasing fake predators to him.

Obviously I don't have the PM's at my disposal, but my point is that everything seems to have snowballed from Chady possibly knowing about it, to him being the ringleader. Chinese wispers anyone?

I think this should be dropped. And I will happily be the hypocrite that mentions that we should keep this thread on the topic of counterfits in the marketplace, and stray from the he said she said crap.

 

[i8ap4t]

Actually if you dig a little bit deeper, you would realize that there is no 100% predator counterfeit. Although Predator claimed that they use Titan and XTC for their ferrules, The material they use actually have different colors than the regular ones we could easily obtain from Atlas. Those Predator factories all sign NDAs with Predator which means they could not sell the material without Predator's apporoval. Mr. Soong, seriously, you don't even have the expertise to tell the difference between genuine and knockoffs, how did you know the shaft you saw is fake? Another "rumor" said ?

If you read the original post of the thread, Mr Soong mentions how they were quite open about it, and were looking for someone to sell these fakes overseas.
Obviously if Chady was involved, they would already had a channel to market, and would not have required Mr Soong.

Asside from that, Mr Soong mentioned that they there more than happy to change the ferrule and tip to match what is required, which makes me thing that we are talking about an offshoot factory producing them. Possibly someone for the production line has seen an opportunity, and has jumped ship to make fakes elsewhere. Make a lot more selling a shaft for $100 direct to customer, than $20 to predator.

If it was a factory that used to be in contract with predator, they should already know which top and ferrule to use. But could possibly just be trying to save costs?

I wouldn't rule it out as being seconds from a current predator factory, or even made after hours. Sure they have a NDA with Predator, but if I make $300 a month on the factory floor, and the opportunity to sell a shaft for $100 crossed my path, you bet your ass I will sell it!

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

And to further a bit. Timothy offered to set me up and get me a shaft himself to try out.
Or to take to court, was his words. I wouldn't need one to take to court.

As I have 3 or 4 Pred shafts and a couple of Predator cues, I had no need or desire.

But thinking back, if I had have considered and asked for a couple of dozen, where Timothy may have also profited, I am sure that he would have tried to hook me up.

So, a possibility that for the right money, he was willing to be complicate in a deal all the while throwing Chady and Friends under the Bus.

Hope thats not the way they do business in China. Actually, I know better. Much of my fishing tackle and related items come from China. The items have always been top notch and can honestly say that I have not been disappointed even once.

The sellers that I deal and have dealt with have always been great to work with and above board.

 

[smoooothstroke]

Has a Predator rep or company member been notified?

 

[i8ap4t]

Has a Predator rep or company member been notified?

Predator is a marketing company. Pretty sure they would have done enough market research to know that there are potential fakes out there.

Aside from the fact that we know Mr Soong has seen a fake before, we have no information that would be useful to Predator. It would be best for Mr Soong to contact predator directly as he has the first hand information.
But even then, I doubt anything will change. Aside from adding more 'security features' like the holograms that appared on the Moori's, predator can't do much else except educate the public, and make sure they buy from offical dealers.

 

[JB Cases]

Has a Predator rep or company member been notified?

As I said before Predator has an office, I think it might even be designated their headquarters, in Hong Kong AFAIK. Trust me, they are well aware of what's happening with their brand long before it reaches AZ Billiards.

Predator is a marketing company. Pretty sure they would have done enough market research to know that there are potential fakes out there.

Aside from the fact that we know Mr Soong has seen a fake before, we have no information that would be useful to Predator. It would be best for Mr Soong to contact predator directly as he has the first hand information.
But even then, I doubt anything will change. Aside from adding more 'security features' like the holograms that appared on the Moori's, predator can't do much else except educate the public, and make sure they buy from offical dealers.

We don't even know what Timmy saw. We know that he came on AZB to "report" the existence of counterfeit shafts, claims to be on the moral high ground, but then privately offer to supply them while tossing out the name in private messages of a highly regarded cue dealer as the source of the claimed counterfeits.

The fact is that the machinery to make pie splices is easily available to anyone here. There is one maker that made the machine and he will sell to anyone who asks. But even without the machine there are abundant Predator knockoffs around. I have even seen single piece d-grade shafts with Predator's logo on them.

Anyway, my fundamental point here is that unless someone has actual proof, something tangible, then coming on here and spreading malicious rumors should be deemed uncool and a reason for a ban. I am all for protecting the membership against unscrupulous people WHEN YOU HAVE PROOF. But if all you have is "I heard so and so did x and x" then put on your investigative hat and go find backup if you really want to break the news.

Otherwise you end up looking like a fool who just can't wait to knock someone on the slightest pretext.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

We don't even know what Timmy saw.

Read post numbah one. It is quite clear as to what he saw, or said he did.

 

[JB Cases]

Read post numbah one. It is quite clear as to what he saw, or said he did.

I read it, probably more carefully than you. He CLAIMS to have seen counterfeit Predator shafts. We don't know if he ACTUALLY saw counterfeit Predator shafts.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

What did he see then?

Real Predator shafts that were being touted as counterfeits and sold for $110.00

 

[JB Cases]

What did he see then?

Real Predator shafts that were being touted as counterfeits and sold for $110.00

Who knows? Did you buy one? Can you find any place online where anyone is selling these? Or is Timothy the ONLY outlet that these criminal masterminds chose?

And they chose to tell him all about their master plan including the names of the gang members.....

Really a dumb criminal conspiracy if you ask me. But hey, Timmy can get you some if you want to use them to go to "court".

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Really a dumb criminal conspiracy if you ask me.

Well, jails aren't full of really smart criminals are they.

Timothy made an apology to Chady. Posted that I was just imagining that he PMed me and said that Chady was one of the people involved.

But alas John, this thread is pretty much dead now. Is there another thread that you can go play in, or is your mind still squirming for this one.

Hey, Lou started a thread and is talking about Gambling. Be a good little chap, run along and dick up someone elses thread with your twaddle.

 

[i8ap4t]

I don't understand why you wouldn't trust Mr Soong here.
His post was to warn other forum members. I don't understand why anyone would lie about this. He even offered to arrange a fake for a fellow member to inspect (blue hog).

The information he wasn't sure on was if there were any AZB member affiliate with fakes. This is were he wrongly mentioned Chady's name without further evidence.

What I truely don't understand is you not trusting him on the fakes existance without evidence, but then threatening him with court if he provides any.

Again I will say that bringing in the whole he says she says thing is the wrong way to go. How is this forum meant to be a community if no one trusts each other?
You CLAIM you make and sell cases, but how do I ACTUALLY know that?

Apologies for any offense caused. This post was not meant targeted at you Mr Barton, but rather just a outlet for my frustration at a situation that seems to be ever too frequent on this forum.

 

[JB Cases]

I don't understand why you wouldn't trust Mr Soong here.
His post was to warn other forum members. I don't understand why anyone would lie about this. He even offered to arrange a fake for a fellow member to inspect (blue hog).

The information he wasn't sure on was if there were any AZB member affiliate with fakes. This is were he wrongly mentioned Chady's name without further evidence.

What I truely don't understand is you not trusting him on the fakes existance without evidence, but then threatening him with court if he provides any.

Again I will say that bringing in the whole he says she says thing is the wrong way to go. How is this forum meant to be a community if no one trusts each other?
You CLAIM you make and sell cases, but how do I ACTUALLY know that?

Apologies for any offense caused. This post was not meant targeted at you Mr Barton, but rather just a outlet for my frustration at a situation that seems to be ever too frequent on this forum.

I am not threatening anyone. if there are counterfeit predator shafts that Timmy has access to then that is between him and predator. he apparently offered to sell some for someone else to possibly use for evidence.

as to why I don't put much credibility into Timmy' s account.....the fact that he ran around implicating someone in a crime without any proof other than some guy in a pool room said maybe he is involved leads me to question Timmy's judgement on the whole issue.

now do I believe that counterfeit predator shafts exist...sure...I have already said that. do I believe that some guys bought a machine to do pie spliced shafts......went through the trouble to counterfeit predator including logo and then decided to tell a child all about it?

no, that I don't believe.

 

[JB Cases]

Again I will say that bringing in the whole he says she says thing is the wrong way to go. How is this forum meant to be a community if no one trusts each other?
You CLAIM you make and sell cases, but how do I ACTUALLY know that?

Apologies for any offense caused. This post was not meant targeted at you Mr Barton, but rather just a outlet for my frustration at a situation that seems to be ever too frequent on this forum.

I trust everyone who puts their evidence on the table.

notice I had zero problem with Timmy's account until BHR brought Chady into it.

How do you know I make cases? you don't which is why I made a couple dozen videos of me in my shop.

and many azb members have visited me in the shop and one of them worked for me for almost a year.

sad that you don't understand the difference. and do you think Timmy's apology means anything? oh gee sorry I defamed you to others....let me put it more bluntly sorry I raped your reputation hope it is all good now.

 

[JB Cases]

Well, jails aren't full of really smart criminals are they.

Timothy made an apology to Chady. Posted that I was just imagining that he PMed me and said that Chady was one of the people involved.

But alas John, this thread is pretty much dead now. Is there another thread that you can go play in, or is your mind still squirming for this one.

Hey, Lou started a thread and is talking about Gambling. Be a good little chap, run along and dick up someone elses thread with your twaddle.

you a little upset that you got played?

 

[JB Cases]

I agree.

A pretty Chady, oops, I meant Shady deal.

He has a few ball swingers on the Forum, but others know different.
Apparently, Pred shafts weren't the
only items on the list or in the planning
stages.

You say let it die but did you then edit this post?

You got flat out played by a teenager and you won't even have the decency to edit your accusatory posts.

 

[JB Cases]

I never assumed anything Timothy. I kept both PMs from yourself to me. Do you need a refresher?

Chady. The transaction was for $234.
The first email I received from you was to accuse me of having Buyers Remorse.

None of the such. I didn't refuse to send the chalk back to you. You wanted me to send it to an address in Florida. I refused to do that as I wanted the item to go back to the exact address that it came from. If that contributed to your confusion re myself refusing to send the chalk back, then that is where that came from.

You initially refused to refund on the grounds that you don't do refunds on International orders.

When the order was taking too long, approx a month to get to you, I checked back with you. You said in an email that according to your local Post Office and the tracking number, the item hadn't left Canada yet.

Within a day or two after, I received confirmation that the package had arrived and was picked up by yourself.

There was no Buyers Remorse. The chalk was hard as a rock. A person wouldn't have been able to apply chalk if the tip was made from concrete.

Other than that, I would have been happy to keep the chalk.

In his first PM to myself,John was the one who suggested that, and he used the word, "Hate", was the reason that I supposedly sided with Timothy re his Thread.

That is why I posted in this Thread that Hate was a pretty strong word and as far as I was concerned, Water Under the bridge, as it was a few years ago.

But, I do like how people tend to not get the truth right when openly confronted in public, right Timmy.

BTW Chady. As I mentioned, I have both PMs from Timothy. Seeing how Timothy was willing to throw me under the bus, so to speak, and say that I was only assuming, I would be happy to Forward you both PMs, so you can read them in their entirety and complete with no edits. Just so you know that there was no assuming on my part anyway, and that your name was mentioned in both PMs.

Timothy mentioned information that I wouldn't know and would be pretty difficult for myself to make up. Considering that I am in Canada and he doesn't exactly live down the street.

See what happens when you are dishonest Timothy? It can come back and bite you in the butt when you least expect it.

Are you still the manager of a pool hall where customers give you all this info?

And to further a bit. Timothy offered to set me up and get me a shaft himself to try out.
Or to take to court, was his words. I wouldn't need one to take to court.

As I have 3 or 4 Pred shafts and a couple of Predator cues, I had no need or desire.

But thinking back, if I had have considered and asked for a couple of dozen, where Timothy may have also profited, I am sure that he would have tried to hook me up.

So, a possibility that for the right money, he was willing to be complicate in a deal all the while throwing Chady and Friends under the Bus.

Hope thats not the way they do business in China. Actually, I know better. Much of my fishing tackle and related items come from China. The items have always been top notch and can honestly say that I have not been disappointed even once.

The sellers that I deal and have dealt with have always been great to work with and above board.

Preservation.