Fake 314-2 Shafts

[JB Cases]

Are the windows locked?

Just kidding...but I wouldn't put it past ANYBODY, ANYWHERE...if somebody thinks they can get an EXTRA dime or dollar out of somebody else. This goes for any country, any culture, any nationality in the WORLD...not just China.

If you listen to today's news you are going to hear Governor Christy of NJ try to explain how he had NOTHING to do with any traffic difficulties in NJ that were "possibly" caused by HIM or his EMPLOYEES as a payback to a DIFFERENT political party.

MANY people are going to say they "would bet that neither HIM nor his EMPLOYEES would RISK his political career possibly leading up to the Presidency over something as trivial as that". The e-mails may say something COMPLETELY different.

WHO can you TRUTHFULLY believe?

They are in the process of identifying and courts-martialing a few HIGH level US Navy officers...ADMIRALS at the highest. For what? Supposedly taking bribes from an Asian con man that is well known throughout the Pacific maritime world by mariners from around the world...navies as well as civilians.

The Asian guy is now in Federal prison in San Diego awaiting trial. One or more of the US Navy officers have already been convicted. A few more are under trial or investigation.

How MANY people would have BET that these guys would NEVER do something like that? I would bet that MANY would say that.

These shafts could range from COMPLETE fakes, to SECONDS that were maybe supposed to be destroyed or sold at a reduced price (though I have never heard of Predator seconds being for sale anywhere), to ACTUAL shafts that DIDN'T pass through the BACK DOOR, but SOMEHOW got out into the world and were unaccounted for by the people who are supposedly in charge of production, logistics, materials, and distribution.

You choose which theory suits your fancy until we actually find out the true story. In the mean time, I'll sit back and watch. When I worked for NSA our motto was, "IN GOD WE TRUST. ALL OTHERS WE MONITOR". I'm in my monitoring mode right now. I'll leave the TRUSTING up to the rest of you.

I understand. The Germans have a saying, trust is good but control is better.

Just saying that I don't think that the factories would risk multi-million $ contracts to make a few bucks extra. Then again I have had stuff slip out the back door in one of my previous businesses by people I thought I could trust 100%.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I understand. The Germans have a saying, trust is good but control is better.

Just saying that I don't think that the factories would risk multi-million $ contracts to make a few bucks extra. Then again I have had stuff slip out the back door in one of my previous businesses by people I thought I could trust 100%.

Ronald Reagan said, "Trust but Verify".

But enough of the politics.

When can you have one of your people "slip" me one of your cases out the back? I need a good deal.

 

[LHP5]

I know this thread is old but did it ever get resolved? Predator or anyone ever take action against this?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I agree.

A pretty Chady, oops, I meant Shady deal.

He has a few ball swingers on the Forum, but others know different.
Apparently, Pred shafts weren't the
only items on the list or in the planning
stages.

 

[JC]

A fake of a dried out Chinese POS shaft?

Is that like faking orgasm while masturbating?

JC

 

[row21097]

Damn...always hearing on here about how the Chinese are stealing from the Americans (supposedly), but seldom hear about the Chinese who are stealing from the Chinese who are stealing from the Americans.

You KNOW what THAT means? It means if they are NEAR the SAME quality then you were getting RIPPED off in the FIRST place. That is the WAL-MART theory and most manufacturers theories. Now that EVERYTHING is overseas who do you think is gonna rip off who? We don't have anything left to rip off except ideas.

It is the same thing with cues and everything else. Why are people able to sell ALMOST the same thing, using similar quality materials at WAY less?

Because they are paying their employees LESS than the others. That is the good old American way...er, er..er...I mean Chinese way.

Aloha.

I have no experience with knock off shafts, but I can say with absolute certanity that the knock off schckles were ABSOLUTLY NOT of the same quality of the OIM. Best to avoid knock offs.

Bert

 

[JB Cases]

Predator has an office in Hong Kong and plenty of people in China and Taiwan with finger on the pulse. If anyone is selling counterfeit Predator shafts then they already knew about it probably long before Timmy saw one.

And if any major cue dealer is in on it then it's 100% that the dealer knew EXACTLY what materials to use for a counterfeit shaft.

Smells fishy to me.

But as I said to my wife years ago upon seeing all the high end brand shops in China, how would anyone really know what's real and what isn't? I mean if you go into a Prada shop in China how would the average person know the difference between a real Prada bag and a fake one?

They make such high quality counterfeits here even the technicians from the name brands sometimes have to take the bags apart to see if they are real or not.

And I turned out to be right because a year or so ago there was a scandal wherin people were mixing in counterfeit goods alongside the real ones in the high end shops in China and Hong Kong.

But anyway, I wouldn't go on just the word of a kid who is whispering in people's ears about who is doing what. This type of backdoor smear bullshit shouldn't be on the forum.

Timothy if you want to accuse someone do it openly. I am going to call my friend in a little while to let him know that you are here on AZB smearing his name. Expect him to call you.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I am going to call my friend in a little while to let him know that you are here on AZB smearing his name.

You consider him a Friend?

He had zero problem smearing my name to Pay Pal to make it look as tho I were the cheat and liar.

 

[JB Cases]

You consider him a Friend?

He had zero problem smearing my name to Pay Pal to make it look as tho I were the cheat and liar.

that is between you two. your dispute is not my cause. when I see someone I know being accused of something that I think is not plausible I will inform that person so that they can deal with it.

if Timmy wants to name names he should just come out and say it instead of using other members to do it for him.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

that is between you two.

Was between. Water under the bridge, I learned a lesson.

Just like it is between Timothy and Chady. Got nothing to do with you regardless.

Look at the date of the thread John. Are you saying that this is the first time that you have seen it and now feel compelled to be involved?

Chady started a Moori Thread not long ago. I'm sure he reads the Forums even if he doesn't post much.

A fairly serious charge against another billiard dealer if it isn't true. I wondered at the start what might motivate Tim to lie and make an accusation as that. What would be his reward other than a visit from a few Chinese guys some night.

I know in your PM to me, you used the word Hate.

Hate is a strong word in that, to myself, would mean that you wouldn't care if bodily harm came to an individual. Despise. Nope, I don't feel that strongly about anyone, not on AZ anyway.

A plane load of Bilderbergers going into the Pacific. No tears on my behalf.

Anyway, I don't hate Chady as you insinuated. As I mentioned, I learned my lesson and like yourself, I would also warn anyone that got into anything with him to be careful.

Just like you're planning on warning him. Fair enuff eh?

 

[JB Cases]

Was between. Water under the bridge, I learned a lesson.

Just like it is between Timothy and Chady. Got nothing to do with you regardless.

Look at the date of the thread John. Are you saying that this is the first time that you have seen it and now feel compelled to be involved?

Chady started a Moori Thread not long ago. I'm sure he reads the Forums even if he doesn't post much.

A fairly serious charge against another billiard dealer if it isn't true. I wondered at the start what might motivate Tim to lie and make an accusation as that. What would be his reward other than a visit from a few Chinese guys some night.

I know in your PM to me, you used the word Hate.

Hate is a strong word in that, to myself, would mean that you wouldn't care if bodily harm came to an individual. Despise. Nope, I don't feel that strongly about anyone, not on AZ anyway.

A plane load of Bilderbergers going into the Pacific. No tears on my behalf.

Anyway, I don't hate Chady as you insinuated. As I mentioned, I learned my lesson and like yourself, I would also warn anyone that got into anything with him to be careful.

Just like you're planning on warning him. Fair enuff eh?

I only saw the accusation from you yesterday. I had commented on the concept of counterfeit Predator shafts.

If you want to use your feelings about Chady to allow you to just believe a kid who didn't even know how to check a cue for straightness several years ago to the point that you are happy to accuse Chady of counterfeiting then I certainly can't stop you. You were unhappy about what? A couple boxes of chalk that you ordered from Taiwan that you say Chady wouldn't take back? I get it that you can be upset when a seller won't jump and immediately reverse a transaction. We in the USA and Canada have grown up with a satisfaction guaranteed - no hassle returns climate. So when you don't get that and it ends up in a disagreement I can understand that you are upset.

On the other hand, Chady has been in the business for a long long time and he deals in very high end cues and other billiard supplies. He owns a shop in Shanghai, is partners in Zen cues, and deals with just about every high end cue maker and dealer.

And, he is very wealthy outside of pool. He also deals with the factories that make Predator cues with his own private label brands. So all this points to very little incentive to get involved with counterfeit Predator shafts. Not saying it's not possible....people who are successful make irrational moves all the time but for you to simply accept the word of a kid who is a complete newbie in the billiard business over a veteran because you lost a few dollars in a chalk deal is stretching a bit in my opinion.

It is actually exactly part of the problem on this forum. That you or anyone is free to defame with no proof is ridiculous. I have no problem with you detailing your deal with Chady. That's between you both and you have every right to outline your side and invite rebuttal.

But I could manipulate you so easily into believing that people you don't like are guilty of actual crimes and watch you spatter it on the forum if I wanted to. THAT is the problem and it's kind of sad that you don't see it.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

If you want to use your feelings about Chady to allow you to just believe a kid who didn't even know how to check a cue for straightness several years ago to the point that you are happy to accuse Chady of counterfeiting then I certainly can't stop you. You were unhappy about what? A couple boxes of chalk that you ordered from Taiwan that you say Chady wouldn't take back?

My feelings about Chady? I already said that it was water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. My first deal with him was my last. When Tim told me, about the only thought I had was that it didn't surprise me. I didn't run off the Predator to tattle on him with the hope that it may be true. You do that, not me. When you ratted the Knock Offs to Predator, you probably hoped that there would be something in it for you, otherwise, what personal stake would you have in it.

Did I accuse Chady of anything? I said, "Apparently". Apparently according to Tim. He was the one that started the thread, leaving it up to any member that wanted to PM for more info, which I did and sure many others did as well.

A couple of boxes of chalk? Don't make it sound like I was crying over a couple of boxes.

Try more like 40 pieces at 8 or 9 bucks a piece. Been awhile, can't remember the exact number of cubes nor the exact asking price. But, it was a few hundred and not 20 bucks ok. I still ended up out on that one with no offers to make it proper, from your Friend.

You like to put words in peoples mouths don't you.

Anyway, you like to fight and argue so feel free to contact your Friend and keep the Thread alive. The thread is about you now, isn't it.

I said my piece and don't feel like getting into a back and forth with you for a year or so.

If I ever get banned from this place, it won't be because of you.

 

[JB Cases]

My feelings about Chady? I already said that it was water under the bridge as far as I am concerned. My first deal with him was my last. When Tim told me, about the only thought I had was that it didn't surprise me. I didn't run off the Predator to tattle on him with the hope that it may be true. You do that, not me. When you ratted the Knock Offs to Predator, you probably hoped that there would be something in it for you, otherwise, what personal stake would you have in it.

Did I accuse Chady of anything? I said, "Apparently". Apparently according to Tim. He was the one that started the thread, leaving it up to any member that wanted to PM for more info, which I did and sure many others did as well.

A couple of boxes of chalk? Don't make it sound like I was crying over a couple of boxes.

Try more like 40 pieces at 8 or 9 bucks a piece. Been awhile, can't remember the exact number of cubes nor the exact asking price. But, it was a few hundred and not 20 bucks ok. I still ended up out on that one with no offers to make it proper, from your Friend.

You like to put words in peoples mouths don't you.

Anyway, you like to fight and argue so feel free to contact your Friend and keep the Thread alive. The thread is about you now, isn't it.

I said my piece and don't feel like getting into a back and forth with you for a year or so.

If I ever get banned from this place, it won't be because of you.

the thread is about making ambiguous and possibly false accusations and how easy it is to manipulate people like you into making them.

and I didn't tattle to predator because I have seen nothing here that they would need any help from me. I did inform Chady about the thread and Timmy's gossip.

I only like to fight when something is worth fighting for. I consider this worth commenting on. someday just to prove a point I might show some of you how easily you are manipulated.

to answer your earlier question of what motivation would Timmy have.... oh I don't know perhaps it is good if people lose trust in your competitor? the kid is trying to sell both end cues and Chady is established in this business. no conflict of interest there huh?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I guess that I am easily manipulated. John The Manipulator will now show us how.

Gee, I wish that I was as smart as you.

to answer your earlier question of what motivation would Timmy have.... oh I don't know perhaps it is good if people lose trust in your competitor? the kid is trying to sell both end cues and Chady is established in this business. no conflict of interest there huh?

Now you're making false accusations John. See how easily I manipulated you into doing that.

You live in the land of Knock Offs. Apparently you know more than the rest of us do about them. The way you have described it, its almost like a Badge of Honor. How hard is it to imagine that someone that you/we know in the Billiard Industry possibly has his hands in on it. Predator has been knocked off for some time now. No surprise if someone else is giving it a whirl.

John, even tho you are married to a Chinese lady, you are still a Gweilo.
To your employees, you are a Gweilo. They may not say it to your face, but at lunch break, they call you that.

Do you think for one minute, anyone is going to tell you the truth re something like this.

Possibly dangerous stuff regardless of whether Timothy is telling a story or not. I wouldn't care to be on the receiving end.

The post that I was responding to was that of Classic Cues, in that he posted. Really "Un Cool Shady"

So I posted back, I guess I should have left a little Winky Smiley behind it. Then there would have been no doubt.

In the short run, I have no vested interest in this. Are you sure that you don't. Gweilo Barton.

 

[poolchady]

I was told by a couple of AZ friends saying that this kid Timothy Soong accuses me of selling predator knock-offs. Unfortunately I have never got the chance to find the spare time to make the knock-off shafts. My own family business keeps me busy enough. Plus this pool cue thing takes the rest of my free calendar. My schedule is all booked. Too bad Mr. Soong. Sorry I disappoint you.

I did see those fake shafts at local poolhalls a couple of times. So far they look 100% identical but with tighter scale grain and all of them are for BK2 or earlier models. I haven't seen fake BK3 shafts yet.

Regarding the chalks issue with Blue Hog rider, he is the only person to question me the quality of my cosmo chalks. He bought a couple of cosmo chalks (I think it's 25 pieces or less) from me about 2 or 3 years ago. After receiving those chalks, he emailed me saying that he couldn't get used to those chalks and want a refund. I asked him to send the chalks back and I will refund him but I couldn't take those chalks he already used. At the beginning He insisted in keeping all the chalks while getting a full refund. Hell no for me. He then posted the transaction on AZ forum. For the rest you guys could use the search function to find the original thread. Bottom line is I won't send anyone the refund money unless they send the goods back. Period.

My first appearance in this society was in 1998 when there was no ebay and we only had "news group" to discuss. I have met many many people and most of them befriended with me. I find that most people on this forum are decent and nice. I don't think I need to waste my time explaining these false accusation but John reminds me to at least take some time to explain.

For those gentleman who wants to start their knock-off business, I do have some contacts and know a few suppliers who are capable of making radial laminated shaft rods. This is no biggie. As long as you have proper equip everybody could do it. Many billiard suppliers bought these shaft rods and sell them to repairing shops or cuemakers. Pie structured or laminated shafts are legit so I don't think this is an issue. Predators so called "patented" design is mainly on the hallow ferrules of the shafts. This design reduces the deflection but at the mean time weakens the shaft. Nothing is perfect imho.

Well, I just finished my fasting and I have a few hours of meditation to do now. Gotta run.

 

[liakos]

This thread is awesome lol! It's amazing, but then again it's not! It's pool players doing there same old routine this is why I admire all those people who are in business in the billiard world! You guys got the most difficult customers!!

My cue maker told me one time, I wish I had a couple more customers like you! I said why? Because you make the work worth it! I didn't know what he meant at the time, but when I got to see more and more players,,,,, I understood! Pool players SUCK!!!( this first mean 100% of them, but a very very high % of them do)

 

[JB Cases]

I guess that I am easily manipulated. John The Manipulator will now show us how.

Gee, I wish that I was as smart as you.



Now you're making false accusations John. See how easily I manipulated you into doing that.

You live in the land of Knock Offs. Apparently you know more than the rest of us do about them. The way you have described it, its almost like a Badge of Honor. How hard is it to imagine that someone that you/we know in the Billiard Industry possibly has his hands in on it. Predator has been knocked off for some time now. No surprise if someone else is giving it a whirl.

John, even tho you are married to a Chinese lady, you are still a Gweilo.
To your employees, you are a Gweilo. They may not say it to your face, but at lunch break, they call you that.

Do you think for one minute, anyone is going to tell you the truth re something like this.

Possibly dangerous stuff regardless of whether Timothy is telling a story or not. I wouldn't care to be on the receiving end.

The post that I was responding to was that of Classic Cues, in that he posted. Really "Un Cool Shady"

So I posted back, I guess I should have left a little Winky Smiley behind it. Then there would have been no doubt.

In the short run, I have no vested interest in this. Are you sure that you don't. Gweilo Barton.

aww gee name calling? never heard that before.....and in China it is laowei. Glad to see you know so much more about China than I do. Glad to know that you know the companies here and people involved so much better than me.

no accusation.....you asked for possible motive to lie and I supplied a possible one.

Now you have your answer from Chady. And he reiterated again the chalk issue. I also bought the same chalk from him and and have had no issues with it. Why would you think you should be allowed to keep the chalk and get a refund?

 

[LHP5]

Hey guys not trying to get in the middle of all this but I was the one who bumped this thread back from the dead. I just wanted to see if there was any end to the possibility of fake pred shafts hitting the market. Any fake pred shaft could also possibly hit the sale sections here so I was just curious if there was a resolution to all this. Not trying to open up old wounds so I apologize if that has occurred. Hopefully, all can be resolved between all you, but again I apologize if old wounds were ripped open.

 

[timothysoong]

I wanna make things clear here.

I never said its definitely Chady.

I said, I know a "lil" info.

When people asked are any of these Taiwanese AZ-related, I mentioned, from what I've heard Chady know these guys or he could be involved.

I only heard stories from people here, I do not have any proof, which is why I don't call out names in this case.

@Blue Hog Ridr: I never said it "IS" Chady. I said, from what I've heard, its a bunch of Taiwanese and Chady in China. And u "assumed" it was Chady himself.

Not trying to make things big here, so Chady, I'd like to apologize if u felt that u were accused.

This thread was mainly to warn others there are knock offs out there and to buy with authorized dealers, never intended to be like this.

I explained my part, I'm done here.

 

[Jive]

I wanna make things clear here.

I never said its definitely Chady.

I said, I know a "lil" info.

When people asked are any of these Taiwanese AZ-related, I mentioned, from what I've heard Chady know these guys or he could be involved.

I only heard stories from people here, I do not have any proof, which is why I don't call out names in this case.

@Blue Hog Ridr: I never said it "IS" Chady. I said, from what I've heard, its a bunch of Taiwanese and Chady in China. And u "assumed" it was Chady himself.

Not trying to make things big here, so Chady, I'd like to apologize if u felt that u were accused.

This thread was mainly to warn others there are knock offs out there and to buy with authorized dealers, never intended to be like this.

I explained my part, I'm done here.

I'm not stirring the pot here but you're contradicting whatever you're saying and I'm confused.

So you're not saying it's definitely Chady but he could be involved? What's the difference in meaning? Is he involved or is he not? Or are you saying there's two different Chadys? Hmmm...that's not a common name though...will the real slim Chady please stand up?

You said you'd like to apologise to Chady IF he felt accused? Again I'm not sure if you're apologising or you're ONLY apologising if he truly isn't involved?

You start a thread like this as a goodwill to warn people which is always a good thing but it's pretty confusing. Did you or did you not tell people who PMed you it's Chady who is involved in fake predator shafts? If you did then you must have reliable info to substantiate your claim so no need to apologise right? If you did not tell anyone it's Chady and it's all a miscommunication then why are you apologising?

Am I slow or stupid and not following all these?

I need to know the truth cos I'm meeting Chady next month for the Custom Cue Forum in Beijing and I'm really worried he's gonna swoop out all my Predators with fake ones....