Fallout from a smoking ban!!!

[catscradle]

i just cant believe that a smoking ban really would cause a solid business to have to close down. in massachusetts we've had no smoking in public places for years now. it completely levels the playing field. its not like you can just go to another pool hall and smoke (or bar for that matter). the smokers all just head outside, feed their need and come back in and shoot. i mean really, if they want to shoot pool where else are they gonna go? are they gonna quit pool b/c they cant smoke inside anymore?

brian

The problem there is that it is a city by city ban. If you remember before the state-wide ban in MA individual towns and cities would have bans and others wouldn't as a result the rooms in towns having bans would suffer as their smoking patrons went to other rooms and the non-smokers followed them. Before the state-wide ban, I knew a guy in Framingham who had a smoking and a non-smoking section. He told me that they kept statistics and found that though the non-smoking section had more people come to play there, the smoking section had more that stayed for hours and hours. I presume that was because if you take 4 or 5 hard core players at least a couple of them smoke, and the ones who don't will put up with it to be "where the action is" and follow the smokers to another room in another town. However, once it goes state-wide, player drift is only a problem where a smoking state is bordered (i.e. NH for a couple of more months).
I find I drive 20 minutes to a non-smoking room in MA when I could go 3 miles to a NH smoking room. For me the clear air is worth the drive. It is amazing to me also how many smokers once they can't smoke comment on how much they appreciate the clear air and how little they mind going outside. The place I play in Tyngsboro actually opened a cigar shop attached to the room so that people didn't have to go outside. I often wonder if it is legal. Young people (who are most of the smokers) seem more receptive to a smoking ban than older smokers.
The article mentione filters. That's all well and good, but back when the state was a smoking state, and had filter regulations, I never saw a well maintained filter system and often they weren't even turned on to save electricity.

 

[MrLucky]

if you read the article...

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2007/Jun/20070616Busi003.asp

he was already having problems, he just says the ban hastened his closing ! If a business is mis managed or poorly conceived !ie: in the wrong location etcetera it is easy to use a smoke ban to argue that was the cause of our demise !!!! I have seen here where my spot which allows smoking and banned under 21 year olds as is the law in dekalb county is losing traffic to the Pool Room in Gwinnett that banned smoking !!!! So will the owners here blame allowing Smoking for their demise if they close???? I think not!

 

[catscradle]

.... That the majority of smokers have a problem with this just reinforces the view most nonsmokers have that smokers tend to be rude, and only think of themselves.

Russ

In my experience the majority of smokers don't have a problem with it, but the ones who do have a problem with it are pretty vocal about it.

 

[catscradle]

... Personally, without a lot of difference in equipment, I would drive 20 minutes more to go to a smoking room rather than a non-smoking room, that is also dependent on the action too, as I am a gambler.
...

I on the other hand drive an extra 20 minutes to go to a non-smoking room.

Inititially, I was of the opinion that you have, that it is the room-owners "right" to decide. The more I thought about it though I saw a huge hole in that reasoning. Basically, if the government has the perogative to regulate whether or not a place it issues a license to is smoking or non-smoking, then it hasn't a perogative to regulate at all. That would throw all the anit-trust laws right out the window with the non-smoking laws. The government either always has the or it never has the perogative.

 

[chefjeff]

I on the other hand drive an extra 20 minutes to go to a non-smoking room.

Inititially, I was of the opinion that you have, that it is the room-owners "right" to decide. The more I thought about it though I saw a huge hole in that reasoning. Basically, if the government has the perogative to regulate whether or not a place it issues a license to is smoking or non-smoking, then it hasn't a perogative to regulate at all. That would throw all the anit-trust laws right out the window with the non-smoking laws. The government either always has the or it never has the perogative.

Correct, but why is that a "flaw?"

Seriously, have you looked into the anti-trust legislation history and the whys of it? Hint: if ain't to protect the public from monopoly pricing. I'll go there, too, if anyone wants to argue in favor of those forced-backed "sound good" laws.

Using one bad law to forgo reason in another bad law does nothing to justify the first.

Jeff Livingston

 

[rvan]

I live in phoenix and at first it suked but now thats its been a month or so its relay not that bad. The rooms smell better and its clear.
I'm a smoker and it is a pain in the ass but its better.
Thanks Rvan.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Sorry to jump in late when everybody was hoping this thread would die.

Well ... Wah, wah, wah ... I'm gonna take my balls and go home! He's tired of it, he's an idiot who doesn't know it all shake out in 6 months, hell, who cares?

Like it was said, the industry oughta be begging for smoke-free rooms. Aside from all the other good reasons for banning the smoke in the here and now, do you want to see the game grow? Seriously, what parent in their right mind would take their youngster into a smoky poolroom? Who's going to encourage them to play and hang out in such a place? It sure wouldn't be me if New York hadn't gone non-smoking, I tell you.

 

[TX Poolnut]

A lot of these laws were put on the books after being voted on by referendum or ballot measure by the citizens of the community.

If the community doesn't want your business, you're screwed. That's the way it should be. It seems to me that the business owner got exactly what the free society of that community wanted him to have.

Ain't democracy a beotch?

 

[fish on]

My wife and I went to a Outback to eat last week.
We were seated as per our request in a so called non_smoking area .
Guess what,we sat 2' away from the bar area tables ,we smoked by proxy.
I asked waitress about this ,she said manager would like to ban smoking period! We had waited over 1hour for this!!

 

[Russ Chewning]

Well fish on, you KNOW what the smokers will say.

They'll say:

A. You don't have to eat there if you don't like smoke.

or

B. It's the owner's God given right to run his business however he wants. (Which, they overlook the fact that this same argument could be made for allowing the owner to urinate in the soup if he wants. Or, for adding beard shavings to the steak seasoning. Or, for popping his zits into the mayonnaise. Yuuuuuuuuuum YUM! )

Russ

 

[chefjeff]

Well fish on, you KNOW what the smokers will say.

They'll say:

A. You don't have to eat there if you don't like smoke.

or

B. It's the owner's God given right to run his business however he wants. (Which, they overlook the fact that this same argument could be made for allowing the owner to urinate in the soup if he wants. Or, for adding beard shavings to the steak seasoning. Or, for popping his zits into the mayonnaise. Yuuuuuuuuuum YUM! )

Russ

I'm not a smoker...what would I say Mr. Soothsayer?

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

My wife and I went to a Outback to eat last week.
We were seated as per our request in a so called non_smoking area .
Guess what,we sat 2' away from the bar area tables ,we smoked by proxy.
I asked waitress about this ,she said manager would like to ban smoking period! We had waited over 1hour for this!!

What did the manager say when you complained to him?

Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

A lot of these laws were put on the books after being voted on by referendum or ballot measure by the citizens of the community.

If the community doesn't want your business, you're screwed. That's the way it should be. It seems to me that the business owner got exactly what the free society of that community wanted him to have.

Ain't democracy a beotch?

Democracy is violence by a bigger group over a smaller one. It is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner.

The lambs have no rights, apparently...except to be eaten by the free* society.

Jeff Livingston

* Freedom isn't one group forcing another group to behave as the first wants. Freedom is for the individual, the smallest minority. No one individual is free to initiate harm against another. And to follow that, no one can get conspire with others to inititate harm against another(s).

 

[chefjeff]

Sorry to jump in late when everybody was hoping this thread would die.

Well ... Wah, wah, wah ... I'm gonna take my balls and go home! He's tired of it, he's an idiot who doesn't know it all shake out in 6 months, hell, who cares?

Like it was said, the industry oughta be begging for smoke-free rooms. Aside from all the other good reasons for banning the smoke in the here and now, do you want to see the game grow? Seriously, what parent in their right mind would take their youngster into a smoky poolroom? Who's going to encourage them to play and hang out in such a place? It sure wouldn't be me if New York hadn't gone non-smoking, I tell you.

ANYONE who owns a pool hall or restaurant can go non-smoking ANYTIME. THAT is freedom.

Begging (ie, asking) is the polar opposite of forcing. Think about this: It has become the norm to use force to control businesses that the majority doesn't like. What if the majority doesn't like pool halls? Would it be OK if the majority bans pool?

Jeff Livingston

 

[Jimmy M.]

Now you're not a fan of democracy either?

Democracy is violence by a bigger group over a smaller one. It is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for dinner.

The lambs have no rights, apparently...except to be eaten by the free* society.

Jeff Livingston

* Freedom isn't one group forcing another group to behave as the first wants. Freedom is for the individual, the smallest minority. No one individual is free to initiate harm against another. And to follow that, no one can get conspire with others to inititate harm against another(s).

 

[chefjeff]

Now you're not a fan of democracy either?

No, never have been, except when I was falsely programmed by govt schools that democracy was the ideal politcal system. It took me about 15 years after that to discover the truth about democracy and its problems.

The US was founded as a representative Republic. That is better and safer than a democracy. The founders recognized the dangers of the majority, so they designed the govt's powers to not be taken over by the majority. This has changed over the years, for example, the 17th Amendment changed the election of Senators to majority vote of the people...I'd like to see that Amendment repealed. That is but one example.

I don't really care if the govt is a constitutional republic or if market anarchy triumphs or whatever. I cannot know beforehand what exact way is best*. I only care that the system in place respects the individual as the highest authority.

OK?

Jeff Livingston

* However, I can indentify, by honestly and objectively examining the past, which systems do NOT work: Socialism, corporatism, merchantilism, communism, fascism, nationalism, empire-building, are just some that have been proven over and over to cause more problems than they solve. The process I advocate to find the best system is to first remove those negatives, thus allowing the free individuals to create thier own solutions to their own and society's problems.

 

[cueandcushion]

More fallout

Another side effect from the ban on smoking...

I got to buy a smoke eater off Ebay for $400. My last ones cost $1800 so that was a bargain! So the smoking bans will cause the smoke eater companies to lose business! I hope this thread doesnt get derailed into some political debate.....

 

[supergreenman]

Another side effect from the ban on smoking...

I got to buy a smoke eater off Ebay for $400. My last ones cost $1800 so that was a bargain! So the smoking bans will cause the smoke eater companies to lose business! I hope this thread doesnt get derailed into some political debate.....

I was tempted..... but I remembered those wise words from the movie bambie... If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So I didn't take shots at cheffjeff and his ultra liberatarian views.

But I was tempted....

 

[DaveK]

I was tempted..... but I remembered those wise words from the movie bambie... If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So I didn't take shots at cheffjeff and his ultra liberatarian views.

But I was tempted....

Thump away Thumper !

Dave

 

[Neil]

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