Fargo and Handicaps

Fatboy said:
I’ve watched fargo matches online and I’ve seen guys who are 650ish play horrible(just basic pattern play is very weak) I’ve seen guys 650 play a much more experienced level.

Point being is there’s considerable variance among people with the same rating.
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You are correct about people with a Rating being different. Friend is super 10 Ball Player on Bar Table.

He is not strong at One Pocket on Nine Footer, as the game is different.

So how do you handicap this person, who is a great bar table player, but is not good on Nine footer?
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
You are correct about people with a Rating being different. Friend is super 10 Ball Player on Bar Table.

He is not strong at One Pocket on Nine Footer, as the game is different.

So how do you handicap this person, who is a great bar table player, but is not good on Nine footer?
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Match up and figure it out is always the best way to handicap pool.
 
garczar said:
Fine for head-2-head stuff but if you're trying to run a decent local/regional event you really an accurate H'capping method. FR is by far the best to come along.
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For sure. I never play tourneys. Maybe 15 in my whole life. My mind set is HU pool. Fargo certainly isn’t doing any harm. I’m not knocking it. Seems to be working good for what it is. If more people are playing because they are priced in and not dead $, that’s great, I think that’s the best result
 
Fatboy said:
For sure. I never play tourneys. Maybe 15 in my whole life. My mind set is HU pool. Fargo certainly isn’t doing any harm. I’m not knocking it. Seems to be working good for what it is. If more people are playing because they are priced in and not dead $, that’s great, I think that’s the best result
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I too believe the best way to match up is to FLIP THE DAMN coin. Long live ORANGE FIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
thenaturalpoolplayer said:
I don't understand why we have handicap systems at all? If you aren't good enough to beat another player then you should lose. We shouldn't be bending over backwards to try to help you win when you don't deserve it.
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Yes but it's been hashed out over the many years people have asked this question that without handicaps only the top players would ever show up for events unless someone does 5 different tournaments and leagues every night for all the various player skills. And there are plenty of chances to play in non-handicapped events, and some leagues have even race options as part of the league (APA Masters, USAPL Masters, etc..)
 
garczar said:
One last thing and i'm outta here: i've been hearing this ' you only get better by getting beat' nonsense FOREVER. You get better by being in tight/competitive situations where you have a CHANCE of winning. Playing in open tournaments only results in the vast majority of players being nothing more than DEAD MONEY aka 'donators'. Been to a lot of events where the same players cash over-n-over-n-over again. All you learn in these deals is how to watch and rack.
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I have never agreed that just playing better players would get you better, You need to learn from better players, but often just watching them run out on you before you rack won't do that. Tournaments, leagues, competition in general may hone someone's nerves to be steady in playing, but to learn to play better you would need those better players to explain why they are better and what you are doing to keep you from that level.
 
As a competitor I have always favored run what you brung, heads up. I have guys that can't run three balls brag about beating a tough local shortstop. After they get through bragging I ask "Heads up?" "Well no, he was spotting me the breaks, wild five and above, and four games on the wire racing to seven. Doesn't matter, I beat him!"

As a room owner all of my weekly and monthly events would be handicapped unless there was genuine demand for some open events more often than the three or four a year I would like to run. Few are happy with the way events are handicapped but they do feel like they have a better chance of cashing in handicapped events.

Something that struck me as totally strange in my gambling days, a stranger would come up wanting to play. "Sure" "How about twenty a game nine ball?" "You got it."

"I need a spot." Whoa, wait a minute! I have never given a stranger a spot and ain't fixing to start now. I might today with the fargo ratings but back when a stranger was just that, hell no. They might get a spot later to keep them in action when I was playing on their money but even then I'd give them what they asked for, not what they needed.

Hu
 
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thenaturalpoolplayer said:
Sand baggers are the worst...no pride. They are always garbage players anyway...that's why they can only win by sandbagging.
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Your being judgmental, and Hustlers also play pretend until they clean out your wallet.

We have history innArizona under our rating system, of shistrr getting low rating.

Hitting a few tournments, and taking first place moneys a few times.

Then there fakers move on to another city, or state.

Just another down side to handicapping.
 
fastone371 said:
We hear this complaint all the time, yet when there is a true open tournament the guys whining about handicaps don't sign up, they want to play weaker players even so they can steal.
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There was one guy in Michigan, every time he saw me enter a tournament he wouldn’t get in it🤣

I only play in open tournaments, My win percentage is pretty low. I try and have fun. I also practice and work on my game, unlike the players that have been C and D players their whole live. I have no interest in playing C and D players in some stupid tournament where I have to give up a bunch of weight. If some 600 or 700 player beats me, I’m fine with that as long as I didn’t dog my brains out
 
jtompilot said:
There was one guy in Michigan, every time he saw me enter a tournament he wouldn’t get in it🤣

I only play in open tournaments, My win percentage is pretty low. I try and have fun. I also practice and work on my game, unlike the players that have been C and D players their whole live. I have no interest in playing C and D players in some stupid tournament where I have to give up a bunch of weight. If some 600 or 700 player beats me, I’m fine with that as long as I didn’t dog my brains out
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Well the gripe I hear is Arizona under old AZ System, and Fargo keep player out of most events.

Better player have few event to enter. Room and Bar oener cater to C n D players.

Their business, there rules, and at end of month or week
Their plan help pay bills.

If bill do not get paid place closes, or get dold.
 
It's interesting. Around San Fran south bay area, Fargo handicapping concepts seem pretty minimal. Of course we have local APA and BCA leagues that do their own handicapping thing, but pretty much all bars and small venue tourney's are wide open, simple double elimination 8b/9b things. Even at the few remaining large, well known poolhalls like CA Billiards, Hard Times, etc - most weekly and larger tourney's are open. We also have a large local, non sanctioned bar league that has two divisions (A, so called "upper level" and B so called "intermediate") that has no handicapping - it's been around forever, is quite popular (maybe a few hundred players at all levels). Around here it seems very few folks, except higher level players that travel and play large tourney's even know what Fargo is.

I've been out of pool for decades until 2 years ago, so not sure if this is just due to general lower density of poolhall and leagues around here or what - but the local league & recreational scene seems fairly vibrant, yet Fargo and handicapping in general just doesn't seem to be part of the local culture. I visit AZ area on a semi regular basis, and it's the polar opposite - seems every small/med/large tourney uses Fargo ratings and it seems ingrained deeply into local culture, as nearly any $$ match with an unknown starts off with "what's your fargo?" negotiation process with everyone staring at their phones. I've been told by a few CA and AZ old timers that this cultural divide on handicapping has always existed in the two states. From the various AZB threads I see on this stuff, Fargo ratings and handicapping seem to be widespread in many other locations also, as Garzcar describes the scene in OK, KS, TX, MO, etc. Curious to hear about other areas... Is NorCal some sort of anomaly in the Fargo world?

I'm fairly ambivalent on it, especially as Fargo seems to be clearly well a eatablished part of modern pool at the pro & international level. Seems pretty well designed and to do exactly what it's designed to do... I'm generally old school and prefer everything wide open for tourney's but I get how it levels things out for noobs, helps leagues grow, and the overall utility of standardized ratings. Seems to me the best formula for a venue is to offer a mix of both worlds - run open and Fargo rated leagues/tourney's and players can choose their poison.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
Your being judgmental, and Hustlers also play pretend until they clean out your wallet.

We have history innArizona under our rating system, of shistrr getting low rating.

Hitting a few tournments, and taking first place moneys a few times.

Then there fakers move on to another city, or state.

Just another down side to handicapping.
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I put hustlers in the same category as sandbaggers.
 
thenaturalpoolplayer said:
I put hustlers in the same category as sandbaggers.
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sounds like someone got hustled. look, most people that get 'hustled' hustled themselves. they see what they think is an easy mark and it turns out that they are the prey. part of pool and always will be. hope you don't go in many poolrooms 'cause somebody is always lurking with a paddle for your ass. i've been on both ends of the deal and it never made me mad when i got took. i tip my hat to someone who can 'lay it down' with style. BTW, as for sandbagging in Fargo its nearly impossible over any length of time. you 'might' get away with it short-term but that's about it. there were a couple players in the Ok/Ks area who snuck in 'under the radar' but it only lasted a couple tournaments. some events would have a starting FR of around 500-550 if they didn't know you but would reserve the right for a mid-tournament rating 'adjustment' if it was obvious the player was way under/over-rated.
 
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garczar said:
sounds like someone got hustled. look, most people that get 'hustled' hustled themselves. they see what they think is an easy mark and it turns out that they are the prey. part of pool and always will be. hope you don't go in many poolrooms 'cause somebody is always lurking with a paddle for your ass. i've been on both ends of the deal and it never made me mad when i got took. i tip my hat to someone who can 'lay it down' with style.
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Until you get to play part of victim, then do you shake Hustlers hand and say thanks for screwing, or cry like girl who was raped?

Best way to avoid bring Hustled, ir Hustler I’d avoid strangers, and do not play for money.
 
garczar said:
sounds like someone got hustled. look, most people that get 'hustled' hustled themselves. they see what they think is an easy mark and it turns out that they are the prey. part of pool and always will be. hope you don't go in many poolrooms 'cause somebody is always lurking with a paddle for your ass. i've been on both ends of the deal and it never made me mad when i got took. i tip my hat to someone who can 'lay it down' with style. BTW, as for sandbagging in Fargo its nearly impossible over any length of time. you 'might' get away with it short-term but that's about it. there were a couple players in the Ok/Ks area who snuck in 'under the radar' but it only lasted a couple tournaments. some events would have a starting FR of around 500-550 if they didn't know you but would reserve the right for a mid-tournament rating 'adjustment' if it was obvious the player was way under/over-rated.
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lol ya right. It's not hard to tell if somebody is tanking it on purpose...besides I never take a spot anyway. Chances are if I walk into a pool room then I am the best player. ;)
 
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