apparently you live somewhere where people don't bid big in calcuttas. i never said tourn. payouts only but total $$ paid. i live in the south where people have always had more gamble. some of these 1200under scotch events pay out big combined monies.
Fargo Caps = The dumbing down of pool
- Thread starter iusedtoberich
- Start date
Including calcutta payouts as earnings is problematic because in general the cost of getting the action on yourself is crowdsourced to match the expected payout. If you bought ME for 100 tournaments in a row at $30 a pop, you would have spent $3,000 for that action and probably gotten about $3,000 in payouts. If you bought SVB for 100 tournaments in a row you may have spent $300,000 for the action and gotten $300,000 in payouts. In either case, the expected return is not that far from zero. Anyone suggesting SVB can make a lot of money from Calcuttas is just wrong. It's best to ignore Calcuttas and focus on just tournament winnings when discussing how much anybody makes by playing tournaments.
Tournament payouts don't work out like this because the entry fee is fixed (SVB pays same as me) and only SVB has the option of getting the tournament action on himself for that low entry fee. So he is a net winner.
Yes, I get that your point is these people are perhaps underrated and play well together. But if YOU know that, so do other savvy gamblers at these tournaments and so you and those others would just bid up those teams you expect to do well. The fact is for a 1200 and under SD tournament, there are a lot of teams that are at 1100 and 1130 and 1150 and so forth because they like playing with their friend or spouse. The teams that come in close to 1200 all have positive expectations even without being underrated. I'm guessing there is some confirmation bias contributing here.
@mikepage I'm setting up my first ever tournament for Thursday. R5 FargoRated Hot matrix, NO ONE is excluded. For fun, I put in Gorst vs a local 400 just to learn the digitalpool bracket software. It makes the race 8-3, which is the same if I replace Gorst with a 700. I thought it was a digitalpool issue, until I went directly to the fargorate app and put in the fargo numbers, and it spit out 8-3 for a hot R5 race. Why are you not making it closer to the real odds? It seems you have an artificial limit of minimum games needed by the weaker player? I watched your video on setting up a handicapped event (linked on the digital pool bracket software) and it does not mention any limit.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Partner capped events I think are fine. Because they don't exclude. There are hundreds of local combinations of players that would fall right under the cap, and end up being a fair shake for all the participants. Also can match a pro level player with a banger, and still be ok.
When using a "match chart," you basically choose all the potential matchups you want to allow, and then based on the rating difference, the appropriate one will be chosen. The list of potential matchups for, say, R6 are ones that
(1) add to 11 or 12, and
(2) don't have the big number more than 3 times the low number.
So this includes 6-6, 6-5, 7-5, 7-4, 8-4, 8-3, and 9-3.
If rule (2) wasn't there, the next ones would be 9-2, 10-2, 10-1, and 11-1
For you vs Gorst with the expanded list, 10-2 would be chosen. And the for 400 vs Gorst 11-1 would be chosen.
Rule (2) is there because many tournament directors just don't want anybody going to 2 or 1. For a small weekly event for which people are not traveling far and not paying a big entry, I think going to 2 is fine, and for my weekly 8-Ball tournament I always did R5 with 7-2 and 8-2 added in
Ok, thank for the explanation. It makes sense. I don't necessarily agree with making it the default. Would rather the default be the real odds, then let the TD push a button on their end to have a min or max games when a match has a large disparity in skill. Anyway, thanks for the response.
My money where my mouth is tournament was a success! 12 players showed up for a non-capped, FargoRate handicapped event, on a Thursday at noon. The last 9 fell at 3:55 PM, and everyone was home before dinner. No one was excluded. No one was a favorite due to some pretty round number of 600. The players ranged from 329 to 667. ***I ended up winning***
Bracket:
digitalpool.com
Flyer:
Format:
Bracket:
DigitalPool - Bridging the gap between player and technology
Create and manage your own pool leagues and tournaments and challenge other players from around the pool world.
Flyer:
Format:
Oh boy -- just another tourney director roping some dopes into a tournament to fund his addiction. You should be very ashamed of yourself. Or very pleased. Your choice.My money where my mouth is tournament was a success! 12 players showed up for a non-capped, FargoRate handicapped event, on a Thursday at noon. The last 9 fell at 3:55 PM, and everyone was home before dinner. No one was excluded. No one was a favorite due to some pretty round number of 600. The players ranged from 329 to 667. ***I ended up winning***
Bracket:
DigitalPool - Bridging the gap between player and technology
Create and manage your own pool leagues and tournaments and challenge other players from around the pool world.
Flyer:
View attachment 794362
Format:
View attachment 794363
sudocrushms
Well-known member
Wish more places did tourneys like this (personally prefer scratch though). The house closest to me does Monday Open and Wednesday HDCP tournaments, but they don't start until 1900CT and usually run until 0100-0200...My money where my mouth is tournament was a success! 12 players showed up for a non-capped, FargoRate handicapped event, on a Thursday at noon. The last 9 fell at 3:55 PM, and everyone was home before dinner. No one was excluded. No one was a favorite due to some pretty round number of 600. The players ranged from 329 to 667. ***I ended up winning***
Bracket:
DigitalPool - Bridging the gap between player and technology
Create and manage your own pool leagues and tournaments and challenge other players from around the pool world.
Flyer:
View attachment 794362
Format:
View attachment 794363
Last 2 times I've tried:
- Open: 1st round BYE, sat there for 1:15 before my first match (against a 737, of course). Waited another hour after that before my next match and just couldn't focus anymore. Went 0-2 and still didn't get home until midnight... Absurd.
- HDCP: 1st round BYE (again...), sat for 45 minutes, won first match, sat another hour, played possibly the slowest R6 of my life (dude would have had shot clock violations every shot...), the entire field was waiting for us to finish. Was frustrated and lost that one. Then lost my next one. Got home a little after 0100...
So total was 5 matches (R6) in about 11 hours. Insanity.
I was trying to establish a Fargo, but it's just a complete waste of time and energy. Even after those i still don't show up in the FargoRate list
.Not that I care, I know what speed I can play. It's just frustrating that very few of the good players in the Twin Cities will play friendlies. Everyone just wants action...
There are several good players from the Metro on this forum. Maybe a Salotto day?
Good on ya! This is how Fargo should be used! What was the feedback like? Was the pool hall happy?My money where my mouth is tournament was a success! 12 players showed up for a non-capped, FargoRate handicapped event, on a Thursday at noon. The last 9 fell at 3:55 PM, and everyone was home before dinner. No one was excluded. No one was a favorite due to some pretty round number of 600. The players ranged from 329 to 667. ***I ended up winning***
Bracket:
DigitalPool - Bridging the gap between player and technology
Create and manage your own pool leagues and tournaments and challenge other players from around the pool world.
Flyer:
View attachment 794362
Format:
View attachment 794363
Thanks! I only had 2 complaints that I heard anyway, which is like batting 1000 with pool players, ha ha!
The first was said directly to me. My first opponent (before our match started) said it should be a double elimination, that he has never even played a single elimination event before (or in many years, I forget now). I said to him "the whole point of this tournament is to be fast and go home early. That is simply not possible with double elimination." He says "it is depending on the number of players." I responded "look around, there are 12. Impossible".
I ended up beating him 6-0. I rode the 9 a few times, (don't think I lucked it in though), and one game I made the 9 on the break. I don't think he'll be back! He's used to everything called I guess. I'm 100% not changing to double elim or called shots. Its against my DNA.
The other complaint I heard from the owner, someone told him. This one I'll keep an eye on. The feedback was when players have low robustness, to change them manually. There was only one player below 200 robustness. He had about 30. He ended up getting 4th out of 12 players. If he plays again, I'll prob bump him up a little. But actually, fargorate will take care of that, and he should move up automatically since this tournament will be a big contribution his rating. I didn't know the guy so I just ran with what was in the system. Watching him play, I actually think the rating was about right.
The owner was happy. Of the 12 players, 3 were the regular daytime players that are there every day anyway. But 9 were there just for the tournament. He made $5 a head on the tournament players, plus any snacks they bought.
There was one small conflict, but I think it was ok. In the daytime, all the regulars want the big tables to play one hole on. The room has I think 8 big tables and 7 small tables. There was only one regular for about 30 min that couldn't play on the big table due to the tournament. But all in all I think that's ok, but on the other hand, its not my room.
Last edited:
Running my own tournament I was nervous as hell. I really wanted it to go well, and had a big sense of pride. I spent all week practicing with the digital pool software making fake tournaments to figure it out. When I saw way more players came than I expected, I was thinking I should drop out and focus on running it. At the last minute I decided what the hell and to play.
I think I got lucky and all the players were in house before noon. I had a quick meeting and said this is my first ever tournament, and if I screw it up please go easy on me, ha ha. I thanked everyone for coming, introduced myself, and said this tournament is for daytime players that want organized competition, and to go home early. A couple of the guys came up to me repeatedly and thanked me, and said they can't play late night events. One also recommended I go to a retirement home that people there are itching for something to do.
I told the players at the meeting that "since I'm playing, when your match is over, go stand by the computer and I'll come as soon as I dog the shot". During my play, I was shaking like a leaf, kept watching if anyone needed me. I honestly had not taken my cue out of my case since the Intl Open 2 weeks prior. And I could not hit a ball before the matches as I spent 45 min getting everything ready at the room when I walked in. I ended up playing really well, even though I was shaking. ha ha.
The play was FAST. We used 4 tables for the first round. There were 12 players. I actually thought a 5th table would help us, but it didn't make a difference, and I said to the houseman to rent it out if a customer comes in. There were a few byes, so a few had to wait about 30 min to play their first match. But after that, all the players were pretty much playing non-stop. I as the TD did not get a bye the first round. I didn't have a single break until I was in the finals waiting about 15 min for the other match to finish. It was literally non-stop play for me, 3 matches back to back, running to the computer between shots all 3 matches, then a 10 min break to play my 4th.
I'm having a second one this Tuesday. I guess the proof will be in the pudding how many of these players come back, and how many new players I get.
I think I got lucky and all the players were in house before noon. I had a quick meeting and said this is my first ever tournament, and if I screw it up please go easy on me, ha ha. I thanked everyone for coming, introduced myself, and said this tournament is for daytime players that want organized competition, and to go home early. A couple of the guys came up to me repeatedly and thanked me, and said they can't play late night events. One also recommended I go to a retirement home that people there are itching for something to do.
I told the players at the meeting that "since I'm playing, when your match is over, go stand by the computer and I'll come as soon as I dog the shot". During my play, I was shaking like a leaf, kept watching if anyone needed me. I honestly had not taken my cue out of my case since the Intl Open 2 weeks prior. And I could not hit a ball before the matches as I spent 45 min getting everything ready at the room when I walked in. I ended up playing really well, even though I was shaking. ha ha.
The play was FAST. We used 4 tables for the first round. There were 12 players. I actually thought a 5th table would help us, but it didn't make a difference, and I said to the houseman to rent it out if a customer comes in. There were a few byes, so a few had to wait about 30 min to play their first match. But after that, all the players were pretty much playing non-stop. I as the TD did not get a bye the first round. I didn't have a single break until I was in the finals waiting about 15 min for the other match to finish. It was literally non-stop play for me, 3 matches back to back, running to the computer between shots all 3 matches, then a 10 min break to play my 4th.
I'm having a second one this Tuesday. I guess the proof will be in the pudding how many of these players come back, and how many new players I get.
Oh, and one other complaint, from a guy in this very thread that didn't even play! ha ha ha. I sent him the bracket and invited him to the next one. He saw some of the races were 8-3 and said he'd rather give the 5 and 7 like the old days.
I purposely picked the fargo "hot" column. I think most tournaments pick the "med" column. Even with the "hot", the better players always have the edge. If I was a good player, I'd love to play in any "mild" or "med" event I could find. It's like stealing. I don't think good players even realize this. "Hot" is the fairest for everyone, but still gives the better player a small edge. Mid and Mild give a big edge.
I purposely picked the fargo "hot" column. I think most tournaments pick the "med" column. Even with the "hot", the better players always have the edge. If I was a good player, I'd love to play in any "mild" or "med" event I could find. It's like stealing. I don't think good players even realize this. "Hot" is the fairest for everyone, but still gives the better player a small edge. Mid and Mild give a big edge.
It’s funny until about 5 years ago I think every weekly event I ever played was single elimination. We’d have 64 player fields ($5 entry, loser pays time) ball spot handicap. Start at 8pm. Be over at 230am. Now with 16 players and double elimination, those same players take until 3am. It’s asinine. I hate double elimination with a passion.
SE is ok i guess when used in this quikie daytime tourn. context. You're not going to get big weekend fields to play SE. JoePublic recreational players won't spend $ on a trip of any size where one match might send them packing. I guess you could do a 'second chance' where the losers go into their own short race event.