Fast Mikie Retires His Willie (a true story)

[FastMikie]

Here's a treat: the true story of how I beat world champion Loree Jon Jones in 2 out of 3 exhibition games of 9 ball in front of a room full of witnesses and TV cameras.

Click on this link to read the story.

That was the last time I shot serious pool with my old Willie Hoppe 22 oz. cue that I bought almost a half century ago.

Enjoy!

 

[LowEnglish]

Here's a treat: the true story of how I beat world champion Loree Jon Jones in 2 out of 3 exhibition games of 9 ball in front of a room full of witnesses and TV cameras.

Click on this link to read the story.

That was the last time I shot serious pool with my old Willie Hoppe 22 oz. cue that I bought almost a half century ago.

Enjoy!

It took you 45 years before you ran your first rack of 9-ball, and you think you are better than Loree Jon Jones? LOL you sure stroked your ego quite a bit in that story!!

 

[Egg McDogit]

It took you 45 years before you ran your first rack of 9-ball, and you think you are better than Loree Jon Jones? LOL you sure stroked your ego quite a bit in that story!!

woah man 45 years to run a rack? are you serious? lol

 

[Black-Balled]

I had stumbled onto your site before and enjoyed it. Thanks for putting it up!

 

[Williebetmore]

Here's a treat: the true story of how I beat world champion Loree Jon Jones in 2 out of 3 exhibition games of 9 ball in front of a room full of witnesses and TV cameras.
Enjoy!

FastM,
I very much enjoyed the story. You have echoed a sentiment discussed often on this forum - short race 9-ball has WAY too much luck to be a reasonable way to differentiate players. Probably no one is as vocal in their dislike for this more than me, BUT.... isn't it great to be able to compete with and beat a pro. I've always thought that one of the huge attractions of golf is that on any given hole you can do as well or better than even the best player in the world - perhaps that is part of the attraction of 9-ball as well.

P.S. - In similar situations playing 9-ball or 8-ball, I am 2 out of 2 against Monica Webb, and 1 out of 2 against Jeanette Lee, 1 out of 1 against Nesli O'Hare, 1 out of 1 against Jeff Beckley (9-ball is a stupid game). In straight pool against 2 different players who have been #1 in the world, I am 0 for my lifetime (probably 15 or 20 matches). Perhaps 14.1 gives us a better idea of who we really are.

 

[FastMikie]

woah man 45 years to run a rack? are you serious? lol

The last 43 of those years I hardly played at all, just banging a few balls in social games maybe once every few years, at most. No competition, no lessons, nada...

 

[FastMikie]

FastM,
I very much enjoyed the story. You have echoed a sentiment discussed often on this forum - short race 9-ball has WAY too much luck to be a reasonable way to differentiate players. Probably no one is as vocal in their dislike for this more than me, BUT.... isn't it great to be able to compete with and beat a pro. I've always thought that one of the huge attractions of golf is that on any given hole you can do as well or better than even the best player in the world - perhaps that is part of the attraction of 9-ball as well.

P.S. - In similar situations playing 9-ball or 8-ball, I am 2 out of 2 against Monica Webb, and 1 out of 2 against Jeanette Lee, 1 out of 1 against Nesli O'Hare, 1 out of 1 against Jeff Beckley (9-ball is a stupid game). In straight pool against 2 different players who have been #1 in the world, I am 0 for my lifetime (probably 15 or 20 matches). Perhaps 14.1 gives us a better idea of who we really are.

You GET IT!!
Nine ball IS a stupid game, not really a test of skill as much as a test of luck, especially if only a few games are played. LJJ would have beat me like a red headed stepchild if we were playing straight pool.
Straight pool rules!

 

[Egg McDogit]

The last 43 of those years I hardly played at all, just banging a few balls in social games maybe once every few years, at most. No competition, no lessons, nada...

oh ok that makes a lot more sense

 

[Snapshot9]

I take exception ...

You GET IT!!
Nine ball IS a stupid game, not really a test of skill as much as a test of luck, especially if only a few games are played. LJJ would have beat me like a red headed stepchild if we were playing straight pool.
Straight pool rules!

9 ball is only a stupid game if you don't know how to play it
.... Just like every other game ... That's like saying Baseball is stupid, the guy got a lucky hit. Their is a reason for everything, and for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. If you don't get shape, or the cue rolls behind another ball, it is because you shot the previous shot wrong, not because you were unlucky.

That's like saying, 'it was the girl's fault she got pregnant, not mine'. Take
responsibility for what you do right in the game, AND FOR WHAT YOU DO WRONG. Yes, people can combo and banging the money ball around, and
sometimes it goes in, but they had to hit it correctly for that pocket or it
would not have gone in.

When 2 accomplished players play 9 ball, there is no luck involved.
They know exactly (or pretty exactly) what they are doing and execute accordingly. If one of them makes a mistake, they get themselves in trouble. If you make a mistatke in your job, aren't you in trouble then too?

Just as each player knows how good they are, they also know just how
good THEY ARE NOT. I win a lot of matches just knowing how good
my opponent is and how good THEY ARE NOT. I can evaluate their
weaknesses pretty fast, and know which low percentage shots to leave
them if I have to, or the type of safety that will cripple them, and there
is no luck to it.

People always 'put down' what they don't understand. If you would ever
watch someone 'that is really really good' play the game, you wouldn't say it was stupid or lucky at all. Ignorance is bliss, because you never have to
deal with your own misgivings.

 

[bud green]

Nine ball isn't a stupid game if the races are long enough. Race to 2 or 3 obviously means nothing but a race to at least nine almost always goes to the best shooter. Look at Manalo winning three events in a week playing nine ball against strong shooters- he obviously is playing the best pool right now on the west coast and he won like he should have. Of course, I do have to admit that his winning by snapping two nine balls on the break while tied at 7-7 with Jamito does give your argument more merit. Grady M. has a different set of rules for nine ball that decrease the luck factor- maybe someday the game will change to more of a call shot game but I doubt it....tv probably loves it when someone shits in the nine and the crowd goes bananas.

Race to 3 nine ball is like playing a game of straight pool to 30 or 40. Every local A player I know has run at least 40 and most of them don't practice 14.1 more than once a month.

Race to 11 nine ball is my guess to the equivalent of a 150 pt match in 14.1

 

[AuntyDan]

The worst thing though is when the luck goes back the other way. 2 years ago I played 2 games with Karen Corr at a WPBA charity event. She won the first rack easily, but in the second I got lucky on the 1 ball and ran the rack out. I was feeling really good about this until I played her again this year. She beat me 2-0 and, just to make my humiliation complete, Jennifer Baretta had a ringside seat for the whole thing.

Oh well, maybe next year I can even the score.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Here's a treat: the true story of how I beat world champion Loree Jon Jones in 2 out of 3 exhibition games of 9 ball in front of a room full of witnesses and TV cameras.

Click on this link to read the story.

That was the last time I shot serious pool with my old Willie Hoppe 22 oz. cue that I bought almost a half century ago.

Enjoy!

Okay, I'd just like to start off by quoting FastMikie's webpage on his experience with Loree Jon Jones:

"Every time I whip out my Willie, people are very impressed, and Loree was no exception. I think she was also impressed to learn that I was playing with my Willie before she was born, and she may have been doing the math on that one when she was racking the balls for me, because I could see she was a lot quieter than she had been during the trick shot exhibition."


I just want everyone to know that the moment I read this, I closed the page-window, erased my browser history, got up from my desk, went to the bathroom and washed my eyes.

 

[Egg McDogit]

lol I'd completely missed all the innuendo...what kind of azb'er am I

Okay, I'd just like to start off by quoting FastMikie's webpage on his experience with Loree Jon Jones:

"Every time I whip out my Willie, people are very impressed, and Loree was no exception. I think she was also impressed to learn that I was playing with my Willie before she was born, and she may have been doing the math on that one when she was racking the balls for me, because I could see she was a lot quieter than she had been during the trick shot exhibition."


I just want everyone to know that the moment I read this, I closed the page-window, erased my browser history, got up from my desk, went to the bathroom and washed my eyes.

 

[BigLip]

9 ball is only a stupid game if you don't know how to play it
.... Just like every other game ... That's like saying Baseball is stupid, the guy got a lucky hit. Their is a reason for everything, and for every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction. If you don't get shape, or the cue rolls behind another ball, it is because you shot the previous shot wrong, not because you were unlucky.

That's like saying, 'it was the girl's fault she got pregnant, not mine'. Take
responsibility for what you do right in the game, AND FOR WHAT YOU DO WRONG. Yes, people can combo and banging the money ball around, and
sometimes it goes in, but they had to hit it correctly for that pocket or it
would not have gone in.

When 2 accomplished players play 9 ball, there is no luck involved.
They know exactly (or pretty exactly) what they are doing and execute accordingly. If one of them makes a mistake, they get themselves in trouble. If you make a mistatke in your job, aren't you in trouble then too?

Just as each player knows how good they are, they also know just how
good THEY ARE NOT. I win a lot of matches just knowing how good
my opponent is and how good THEY ARE NOT. I can evaluate their
weaknesses pretty fast, and know which low percentage shots to leave
them if I have to, or the type of safety that will cripple them, and there
is no luck to it.

People always 'put down' what they don't understand. If you would ever
watch someone 'that is really really good' play the game, you wouldn't say it was stupid or lucky at all. Ignorance is bliss, because you never have to
deal with your own misgivings.

this is true...all of it is very ture..
but even if a good player dogs a shot and it goes and knocks a ball in he can either keep shooting or if the 9 ball falls he wins...it gives you more chances to mess up...which is where luck is involved...now of course it can go the other way around too...

how much luck is involved w/ straight pool? it is a lot harder to "get lucky" and the best man ALWAYS wins in straight pool...

sometimes in 9 ball the not best player has better luck...anytime luck is involved the lesser player has that much more chance...but like i said you are right...2 good 9 ball players playing each other is a work of art...but 2 good straight pool players is even more exciting...IMO

by the way sir...i can see how that was a great feeling! you shoulda gave her your number?

 

[Williebetmore]

9 ball is only a stupid game if you don't know how to play it

When 2 accomplished players play 9 ball, there is no luck involved.

People always 'put down' what they don't understand. If you would ever
watch someone 'that is really really good' play the game, you wouldn't say it was stupid or lucky at all. Ignorance is bliss, because you never have to
deal with your own misgivings.

Snapshot,
I think you are misunderstanding what we (and judging from previous threads we are not a small group) are trying to criticize regarding 9-ball. I don't think most of us will find anything to criticize in your analysis (except for one glaring mis-statement which I will address further down). There is no question that the superior player will win most times, especially in longer races. There is no question that "understanding" and studying the game will help, and that a high degree of skill is necessary to play well. There is no question that there is luck involved in all forms of athletic endeavor. However, the issues you bring up are NOT what we mean when we say it is a "stupid" game (remember, this is just levity, we all enjoy playing all games including 9-ball). Here are the "stupid" parts of the game.

#1 - Power break. Why take an elegant pasttime and demean it with the power break (slop in the nine and you win). Yes, application of brute force requires athletic ability and study; but if we wanted to watch real brute force, we would be posting on the shot put forum. The break is WAY TOO IMPORTANT, and there is TOO MUCH LUCK involved in the outcome of the break. As I have posted numerous times, in the vast majority of games that I have viewed at DCC (among players of high skill, and approximately same ballpark of skill) the winner can be predicted greater than 80% of the time just by looking at the table after the opening break - WITH NO REGARD TO WHO'S SHOOTING (you will go broke betting against this proposition). All of those guys are runout players, and there is little surprise about who is going to win the rack after the break is completed. Is this really the way championships at the highest level should be decided?

#2 Slop counts. OUCH!!!! While even in 14.1, slop can count a little bit, it is RIDICULOUS that lucked in balls can continue a run or win a game at the championship level.

#3 Its a rotation game. ALL rotation games have the same deadly flaw. The hardest balls to navigate count the least. Read FL's website for a cogent description of the evils of rotation games (but yes, I like to play them all) - fun to play, but a terrible way to determine a champion.

#4 Its too easy (at least for the top 100 players). Ask David Broxson who recently beat Johnny Archer by winning 8 straight games (no disrespect intended, but who do we really think is the better player?).
At DCC any player in that room could beat any other player in that room with some rolls (even though it is obvious who the top 5 or 10 are) - not a great quality for a game that is trying to determine the best player.

#5 The luck factor. Your assertion that there is NO luck in 9-ball contests between accomplished players is just not true (or perhaps you meant something different). In fact, I can't recall ever seeing an Accu-Stats 9-ball video where there aren't numerous examples of what I and most others would call luck. Examples: You break, make 5 balls, squat whitey in the center, but an object ball rolls up on whitey and you have no shot and almost no chance of a safety. You miss a shot badly, cueball goes 4 rails, slopping in the 9, you are now world champion. I miss a shot badly, but leave you totally hooked. The examples can go on and on.

I know several very well-known pro's and road players. Almost all have bemoaned the fact that so many games are decided by luck (a MUCH higher percentage than 14.1 or one-pocket). What we "whiners" are pointing out is that the status of the game we love is diminished by the predominance of 9-ball play among the best players. I think most of us yearn for a return to the "glory days" of pool, when 14.1 ruled, and the best player would win most of the time. Having said all of that, I must get back to work so I can get home early and play some 9-ball with my friend (and some straight pool too).

 

[Boro Nut]

woah man 45 years to run a rack? are you serious? lol

I know it does sound a bit extreme, but in mitigation we should remember he was snookered on the 1 ball for 23 of them.

Boro Nut

 

[DaveK]

I know it does sound a bit extreme, but in mitigation we should remember he was snookered on the 1 ball for 23 of them.

Boro Nut

Sheesh, talk about slow play, the ref should put that guy on the calender !

Dave

 

[FastMikie]

Snapshot,
I think you are misunderstanding what we (and judging from previous threads we are not a small group) are trying to criticize regarding 9-ball. I don't think most of us will find anything to criticize in your analysis (except for one glaring mis-statement which I will address further down). There is no question that the superior player will win most times, especially in longer races. There is no question that "understanding" and studying the game will help, and that a high degree of skill is necessary to play well. There is no question that there is luck involved in all forms of athletic endeavor. However, the issues you bring up are NOT what we mean when we say it is a "stupid" game (remember, this is just levity, we all enjoy playing all games including 9-ball). Here are the "stupid" parts of the game.

#1 - Power break. Why take an elegant pasttime and demean it with the power break (slop in the nine and you win). Yes, application of brute force requires athletic ability and study; but if we wanted to watch real brute force, we would be posting on the shot put forum. The break is WAY TOO IMPORTANT, and there is TOO MUCH LUCK involved in the outcome of the break. As I have posted numerous times, in the vast majority of games that I have viewed at DCC (among players of high skill, and approximately same ballpark of skill) the winner can be predicted greater than 80% of the time just by looking at the table after the opening break - WITH NO REGARD TO WHO'S SHOOTING (you will go broke betting against this proposition). All of those guys are runout players, and there is little surprise about who is going to win the rack after the break is completed. Is this really the way championships at the highest level should be decided?

#2 Slop counts. OUCH!!!! While even in 14.1, slop can count a little bit, it is RIDICULOUS that lucked in balls can continue a run or win a game at the championship level.

#3 Its a rotation game. ALL rotation games have the same deadly flaw. The hardest balls to navigate count the least. Read FL's website for a cogent description of the evils of rotation games (but yes, I like to play them all) - fun to play, but a terrible way to determine a champion.

#4 Its too easy (at least for the top 100 players). Ask David Broxson who recently beat Johnny Archer by winning 8 straight games (no disrespect intended, but who do we really think is the better player?).
At DCC any player in that room could beat any other player in that room with some rolls (even though it is obvious who the top 5 or 10 are) - not a great quality for a game that is trying to determine the best player.

#5 The luck factor. Your assertion that there is NO luck in 9-ball contests between accomplished players is just not true (or perhaps you meant something different). In fact, I can't recall ever seeing an Accu-Stats 9-ball video where there aren't numerous examples of what I and most others would call luck. Examples: You break, make 5 balls, squat whitey in the center, but an object ball rolls up on whitey and you have no shot and almost no chance of a safety. You miss a shot badly, cueball goes 4 rails, slopping in the 9, you are now world champion. I miss a shot badly, but leave you totally hooked. The examples can go on and on.

I know several very well-known pro's and road players. Almost all have bemoaned the fact that so many games are decided by luck (a MUCH higher percentage than 14.1 or one-pocket). What we "whiners" are pointing out is that the status of the game we love is diminished by the predominance of 9-ball play among the best players. I think most of us yearn for a return to the "glory days" of pool, when 14.1 ruled, and the best player would win most of the time. Having said all of that, I must get back to work so I can get home early and play some 9-ball with my friend (and some straight pool too).

Totally well said, Willie!