Because two of them are just arguments, the third is what really matters. WHY do they do it?
Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Because two of them are just arguments, the third is what really matters. WHY do they do it?
I don't know if it was this thread earlier, or another thread. But, not too long ago, this same thing was discussed on here. Someone posted a video of Efren supposedly swiping at the cb, and I showed that he really wasn't. Then, someone else added to what I posted to prove that he wasn't.
What he and most likely others, are actually doing is aligning to center cb to get their aim and feel of the shot. Then on their final backstroke, they re-align the cue to where they actually want to hit the cb. Their final stroke is straight down that line. Not swiping, but straight.
Another thing to look at when trying to determine if they are actually swiping at the cb is simply to see where the tip ends up. Is it way off to the side like a swipe would do? Or is it more in line with a regularly applied off-center hit?
I think, it's like judging the path of the cueball. There are special cases like a perfect stun shot, where you'll always get a 90° angle. But imagine a shot that is almost straight in, and you intend to play it with natural follow. Every experienced pool player should be able to predict where the cueball is going to hit the rail, as long as they're hitting the ball accurately. There is no system for that. You have to feel it.
So you don't believe whether "they have to" or "it's the best way" have anything to do with "why"?
Your eagerness to argue is clouding your judgment.
pj
chgo
Actually, there are systems for that, which can shorten your learning curve for feel. Look around on Dr. Dave's or Bob Jewett's websites.
pj
chgo
Neil, why are you telling me what I feel and where I've fallen into any sort of trap? I had no intention of dividing folks into distinct camps, I was just slowing two classic approaches to problem solving that seem to be at odds at times.
God bless the reductionists, they certainly have their place in the world, and in science particularly. Without them the holists would be just pissing in the dark. Of course we need fundamental knowledge, but I think in this matter some players lean to the left, some to the right, and some are smack dab in the middle.
This is not unlike political viewpoints. I consider myself to be a centrist, with strong social leanings to the left, and strong economic leanings to the right. This, for me, provides the best vantage point from which to objectively assess the entire political spectrum.
I'm the same way with pool. I do listen, and I do try things that are recommended by better players than me, like you, Pat, Dr. Dave, Bob Jewett, Mike Page, and a list of others too long to mention here. I don't have all the books, and I haven't read the ones I have cover-to-cover, but I try to glean from them that which I feel is most useful to my goals. Remember, my goals may not be your goals.
I also try a lot of things that many experts would scoff at just on principle. Many of these things actually work well for me, even better than the techniques that are considered to be de rigueur by the reigning cognoscenti. To this end I pay very careful attention to what the top players are saying, even if it appears to fly in the face of accepted wisdom. What is the harm in that?
I figure if they say something in a certain way, it must be for a very good reason. Deep down inside I trust there must be some core of truth that is meaningful, even if their understanding of the mechanism behind it may be limited. It's up to me to suss out the truth behind their statements, they are only sharing it how they experience it. I feel the same should be true for others reading these players' opinions. If they can't read on their own without relying on others to shape their convictions, they need to grow up a bit.
This all reminds me of a little encounter from several years ago. I was visiting a small music shop I used to do repair work for before I decided to return to school and get a degree. They had replaced me with some young whippersnapper, so full of himself that I wanted to puke, but I showed him respect anyway, and merely mentioned that I used to be in the trade as well. He tightened up his ponytail, adjusted his beret, and proceeded to ignore me while he attempted to rout out a saddle slot in a very expensive Martin guitar.
Well, his poor little Dremel tool was bouncing and jerking all over the place, tearing splinters out of what looked to be a fine looking ebony bridge. He kept reducing the speed of the tool until it was at the lowest setting, and his problems just kept getting worse. While he was pondering his plight, I casually mentioned that he might try turning up the speed instead of going the other way. Well, he shot me the most arrogant look and said something like, "I wouldn't dream of doing that. This is a rare Martin guitar and I need to go as slowly and as carefully as I can."
So, I wished him well in his new job, walked out the front door and never came back. I never for one minute felt any compulsion to "save" this individual from his faulty reasoning. Someone told me he went on to be a pretty good repairman, and moved to Nashville or some music center and is well regarded there. I guess somewhere along the way he figured it out all by himself... just like I had to. I offer help and advice freely, whenever I can, but some people would prefer to struggle along on their own. So I let them.
If you are referring to the 30° rule, that's also just a rough approximantion and is only accurate in one special case. I remember using it as a beginner.
That's one, but pretty limited - however, it can help shorten the learning curve for CB angles off near-half-ball shots.
Another one is the rough estimation that the CB's rolling path will be something like 1/4 of the angle from the tangent line to the CB's straight path (as if the OB wasn't there).
There is no perfect system (is there for anything?), but as I said, they can be useful for learning.
pj
chgo
Sound the alarm if you wish, but the real CTE visuals of 15 and 30 connect perfectly to the right angles of a 2x1 table. Of course, if one does not know REAL CTE.....then they do not know what they don't know.
Stan Shuffett
Really, I thought I was being nice. It's you trying to shove your opinion around.
P.S. for the players doing it it should be obvious they have to and more obvious it's the best way for them, but WHY do they do it that way. Is there an advantage to it.
Actually, there is a system for that, and it works quite well. It's called the 30 degree rule.
I agree
I agree.
If you don't know what you don't know, then you just don't know,
and that goes both ways. I think its wonderful that your system connects to those angles for you. I for one didn't mention CTE at all or infer that you said anything. I said that to profess perfection was cause to alarm.
I agree.
If you don't know what you don't know, then you just don't know,
and that goes both ways. I think its wonderful that your system connects to those angles for you. I for one didn't mention CTE at all or infer that you said anything. I said that to profess perfection was cause to alarm.
It is not that they connect for just for me but the REAL CTE visuals can perfectly connect for anyone that is willing to engage seriously into a perceptual study.
I am glad we agree!
Stan Shuffett
Isn't this great!
We do! Warm Fuzzies all around! Isn't it just wonderful? No more discontent. Free at last!, Free at last!
We do! Warm Fuzzies all around! Isn't it just wonderful? No more discontent. Free at last!, Free at last!
They were speaking about the CB's path off the OB, not aiming. If there is a perfect system for determining that I'm all ears.
The Word "System"
It would seem that the minute the word, "System" comes up that some people shut down as if it has to be something complicated, none conducive to playing great pool or something bad. The 30 degree rule is awesome for weaving between balls and you can learn feel around it by using Top and Bottom English to bend the path of the cue ball enough to miss balls which is clearly the use of "Feel." A great very simple system.
It would seem that the minute the word, "System" comes up that some people shut down as if it has to be something complicated, none conducive to playing great pool or something bad. The 30 degree rule is awesome for weaving between balls and you can learn feel around it by using Top and Bottom English to bend the path of the cue ball enough to miss balls which is clearly the use of "Feel." A great very simple system.
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