Fear of Feel

[cfrandy]

I think you meant, "I had everything including aim and position locked down before bending to the table, then bent down, confirmed my aim, and fired."

No one finishes aiming, bends down and shoots with both eyes closed--most of the time, anyhow.

I may as well close my eyes! I have a completely detached vitreous in my dominant eye (right) and cornea problems in my left. Otherwise...I'm blind in one eye and I can't see out of the other!

 

[cfrandy]

CJ,

It's not impossible to understand by a transfer of information what you have learned to do by instinct if you can get as close as possible to it and learn to see what happens with shots, cling, spin and shot pressure.

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to play pool or instruct others on the basic fundamentals of shot making. The only absolute skill required in shot making is that you can repeat the motions necessary to pocket the ball! Sounds easy enough, right? Unfortunately, it is NOT easy because the human body is NOT well suited to repeat these motions reliably...over and over again. Worse yet, we find our emotions undermining the activities we wish to do well. We are often divided within ourselves with one concern distracting from another.

Most people don't have time in their lives to do nothing but play pool and they want to find a pathway to a higher level of play than they have been obtaining. So for that person who cannot steep themselves in pool 24/7/365 its important to find a pathway that yourself and other professionals had access to simply by playing, playing and playing.

It's NOT that people "don't have the time" to do nothing but play pool. The reason most people will never get much better at pool is simply because they lack the MOTIVATION to become better players. Ask yourself this, "why do I play pool"? Unless your answer is, "to do nothing but play pool and derive an income from my playing pool"; then to put it quite simply...you lack the motivation to do what is required to achieve CJ Wiley's level of play!
The "pathway" to a higher level of play is NOT a new technique or understanding the physics of pool! CJ Wiley did NOT become a great professional pool player because of scientific knowledge. CJ Wiley became a great professional pool player because he was motivated to do so!
Ask YOURSELF why do YOU play pool, and maybe YOU will find the motivation to become a better player. In finding the motivation to become a better player, you will also do what is required of you...hint: it is NOT finding a new technique! It is in honing the skills you may ALREADY possess. Lee Trevino, Moe Norman, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk were all top professionals in golf yet NONE of them swung a golf club like the other! What they did have in common was the motivation to hone the skills they already possessed and become great!

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Most people don't have time in their lives to do nothing but play pool and they want to find a pathway to a higher level of play than they have been obtaining. So for that person who cannot steep themselves in pool 24/7/365 its important to find a pathway that yourself and other professionals had access to simply by playing, playing and playing.

I suppose it comes down to how you want to define "higher level of play". If it merely means running more racks or winning more, then shortcuts to help achieve that level are what many folks are looking for, and to greater and lesser degrees, some of them find them.

For me, higher levels of play means I'm working from my subconscious more and more of the time. There is no magic bullet trick or technique to help you get to that place. No glove, no cue, no chalk, no aiming system, no lessons, no physics books, no DVDs are going to get you to those higher levels. All of these things can help you in certain ways, but they can't ever replace time spent at the table.

You simply must play and play until it is second nature. If the details of our lives or other ambitions get in the way of doing that, well, that's why we are where we are and they are where they are. This isn't just in pool, it's in just about everything we do.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Nope.

I meant aiming subconsciously. I believe pocketing the ball should be pretty much automatic with someone walking up to the shot and lining up without much effort and dropping into the shot believing they are on the right line. The subconscious pretty much does all of the work with the precise alignment. I dont think anyone can be consistant diligently concentrating on being on the right line everytime.

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, how do you use an aiming system subconsciously? :smile:

But seriously, I get what you're saying. We all always want to aim as you are saying to aim.... thanks.

 

[ENGLISH!]

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to play pool or instruct others on the basic fundamentals of shot making. The only absolute skill required in shot making is that you can repeat the motions necessary to pocket the ball! Sounds easy enough, right? Unfortunately, it is NOT easy because the human body is NOT well suited to repeat these motions reliably...over and over again. Worse yet, we find our emotions undermining the activities we wish to do well. We are often divided within ourselves with one concern distracting from another.



It's NOT that people "don't have the time" to do nothing but play pool. The reason most people will never get much better at pool is simply because they lack the MOTIVATION to become better players. Ask yourself this, "why do I play pool"? Unless your answer is, "to do nothing but play pool and derive an income from my playing pool"; then to put it quite simply...you lack the motivation to do what is required to achieve CJ Wiley's level of play!
The "pathway" to a higher level of play is NOT a new technique or understanding the physics of pool! CJ Wiley did NOT become a great professional pool player because of scientific knowledge. CJ Wiley became a great professional pool player because he was motivated to do so!
Ask YOURSELF why do YOU play pool, and maybe YOU will find the motivation to become a better player. In finding the motivation to become a better player, you will also do what is required of you...hint: it is NOT finding a new technique! It is in honing the skills you may ALREADY possess. Lee Trevino, Moe Norman, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk were all top professionals in golf yet NONE of them swung a golf club like the other! What they did have in common was the motivation to hone the skills they already possessed and become great!

:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

 

[ENGLISH!]

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, how do you use an aiming system subconsciously? :smile:

But seriously, I get what you're saying. We all always want to aim as you are saying to aim.... thanks.

Hi Matt,

I think you've brought out a good point. Much of the 'turmoil' or disagreement regarding aiming is due to what seems to be rather often misapplications of the english language. I'm guilty too.

That said, I think it would be best that one can come to a point where the method that one uses, even though used consciously, becomes worry free.

I'll be rolling along using the see it hit it or a shadow method & all is going well then that odd mis pops up. Now my conscious mind wakes up & asks my subconscious mind, 'What the hell are you doing?'

Well, obviously, to me, my conscious mind gave my subconscious mind some bad info or missed something & gave an incomplete picture.

So as is most always the case, balance is the answer. We need the conscious mind to do it's job which is to gather all of the info that it can & then to pass it on to the subconscious mind & then get completely out of the way so that the subconscious mind can do it's job without any interference.

Some seem to confuse subconscious with objectivity & conscious with subjectivity. They seem to think that once something becomes subconscious it is no longer subjective. That could not be farther from the truth. One's subconscious is chocked full of subjectivity. However it uses that huge database of subjective info based on past experience to make very good decisions on what is the 'objective truth' vs a subjective non reality.

INHO: We need much more study into the amazing 'entity' that is our subconscious mind.

Sorry for the rant on your dime.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[cfrandy]

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, how do you use an aiming system subconsciously? :smile:

But seriously, I get what you're saying. We all always want to aim as you are saying to aim.... thanks.

I've always liked to ask this question, "If EVERY shot you HAD to make is a shot you HAVE made a hundred times before, would you need to consciously aim?

Hint...knowing the limitations of consciousness, the answer should be an easy one!

 

[8pack]

At the risk of sounding like a pedant, how do you use an aiming system subconsciously? :smile:

But seriously, I get what you're saying. We all always want to aim as you are saying to aim.... thanks.

I would say the start of the way you aim would be done consciously. Getting to the point when you pull the trigger is done subconsciously. Feel and knowledge gained through trial an error would play a big part to the subconscious part of aiming.
Just my opinion.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I would say the start of the way you aim would be done consciously. Getting to the point when you pull the trigger is done subconsciously. Feel and knowledge gained through trail an error would play a big part to the subconscious part of aiming.
Just my opinion.

Hi Anthony,

You said in 3 sentences what probably took me more than 3 paragraphs.:wink:

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[8pack]

Hi Anthony,

You said in 3 sentences what probably took me more than 3 paragraphs.:wink:

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

I have a way with words.:smile:

 

[cfrandy]

Go For A Walk!

I would say the start of the way you aim would be done consciously. Getting to the point when you pull the trigger is done subconsciously. Feel and knowledge gained through trial an error would play a big part to the subconscious part of aiming.
Just my opinion.

Much like making the decision to get off your butt to go for a walk! The most complicated part, walking (and all the motions your body must do to complete the task)...is done subconsciously!

 

[336Robin]

Playing Unconsciously

I suppose it comes down to how you want to define "higher level of play". If it merely means running more racks or winning more, then shortcuts to help achieve that level are what many folks are looking for, and to greater and lesser degrees, some of them find them.

For me, higher levels of play means I'm working from my subconscious more and more of the time. There is no magic bullet trick or technique to help you get to that place. No glove, no cue, no chalk, no aiming system, no lessons, no physics books, no DVDs are going to get you to those higher levels. All of these things can help you in certain ways, but they can't ever replace time spent at the table.

You simply must play and play until it is second nature. If the details of our lives or other ambitions get in the way of doing that, well, that's why we are where we are and they are where they are. This isn't just in pool, it's in just about everything we do.

I agree a lot with what you are saying here.

For me my technique is the best describeable way that got me the closest that I could get to a perfect alignment point is was describeable in finite terms that I could make work and from that that I could make another describeable way work for applying English which is another thing.

Not to be confused...playing a shot with Center and playing a shot with English requires different alignments to same delivery point--target in the pocket-- which really makes things confusing to a person who is seeking a holistic answer many of which never truly find it.

I feel very blessed that I can at least offer my description to the aiming scenario and know for a fact that I found answers that have served me well.

I hope when everything I have is out in this area that people who would not otherwise figure out how to get there on their own ideas will be able to look at what I have over the course of two small volumes and see the pathway to playing the game with a holistic approach knowing how they do the things they do to a close enough degree that their personal feel is applied to it in a way that they understand.

If I can do that "and that is what I am trying hard to do," then I will be very happy.

 

[336Robin]

Motivation and Technique

You do not have to be a rocket scientist to play pool or instruct others on the basic fundamentals of shot making. The only absolute skill required in shot making is that you can repeat the motions necessary to pocket the ball! Sounds easy enough, right? Unfortunately, it is NOT easy because the human body is NOT well suited to repeat these motions reliably...over and over again. Worse yet, we find our emotions undermining the activities we wish to do well. We are often divided within ourselves with one concern distracting from another.



It's NOT that people "don't have the time" to do nothing but play pool. The reason most people will never get much better at pool is simply because they lack the MOTIVATION to become better players. Ask yourself this, "why do I play pool"? Unless your answer is, "to do nothing but play pool and derive an income from my playing pool"; then to put it quite simply...you lack the motivation to do what is required to achieve CJ Wiley's level of play!
The "pathway" to a higher level of play is NOT a new technique or understanding the physics of pool! CJ Wiley did NOT become a great professional pool player because of scientific knowledge. CJ Wiley became a great professional pool player because he was motivated to do so!
Ask YOURSELF why do YOU play pool, and maybe YOU will find the motivation to become a better player. In finding the motivation to become a better player, you will also do what is required of you...hint: it is NOT finding a new technique! It is in honing the skills you may ALREADY possess. Lee Trevino, Moe Norman, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Tiger Woods, Jim Furyk were all top professionals in golf yet NONE of them swung a golf club like the other! What they did have in common was the motivation to hone the skills they already possessed and become great!

There is some truth to what you say about Motivation that is for sure but to say that finding a better technique is not what would help many people I disagree because many people are completely lost as to what to do to get them there.

Ive witnessed a lot of good intentioned people who really wanted to learn the game quit because they couldnt figure it out and they didnt have anything to get them really close to what they were needing so they could go the rest of the way on their own intution.

What I am trying to do with my system is give the closeness they need to what is really happening with shot picture and delivery target point so they can see for themselves and learn what needs to be seen and how to deal with the principles of CIT and Side Spin.

Up to this point I haven't seen anything that really gets you there and shows the whole picture as I'm laying it out. I am doing something different within a word "system" that has become tainted and viewed and complicated "as your post suggests in a round about way," and showing people a simpler way to a holistic approach itself is going to be a challenge and for each player that has to confront the idea that maybe what he is doing isnt working its going to a be a personal journey to figuring out that maybe taking a look at another approach might be the right thing to do.

People tend to lump what I am doing into what has been done, simply by application of the word......System.....and they have no idea how simple it might can be.

Hmm.....Maybe I should have named my book.....The Holistic Approach to Shot Making....?

 

[cfrandy]

There is some truth to what you say about Motivation that is for sure but to say that finding a better technique is not what would help many people I disagree because many people are completely lost as to what to do to get them there.

Ive witnessed a lot of good intentioned people who really wanted to learn the game quit because they couldnt figure it out and they didnt have anything to get them really close to what they were needing so they could go the rest of the way on their own intution.

What I am trying to do with my system is give the closeness they need to what is really happening with shot picture and delivery target point so they can see for themselves and learn what needs to be seen and how to deal with the principles of CIT and Side Spin.

Up to this point I haven't seen anything that really gets you there and shows the whole picture as I'm laying it out. I am doing something different within a word "system" that has become tainted and viewed and complicated "as your post suggests in a round about way," and showing people a simpler way to a holistic approach itself is going to be a challenge and for each player that has to confront the idea that maybe what he is doing isnt working its going to a be a personal journey to figuring out that maybe taking a look at another approach might be the right thing to do.

People tend to lump what I am doing into what has been done, simply by application of the word......System.....and they have no idea how simple it might can be.

Hmm.....Maybe I should have named my book.....The Holistic Approach to Shot Making....?

Could you answer just one question? It seems to be the question everyone else in this thread refuses to answer. Why do YOU play pool?

 

[336Robin]

I love Pool thats why.

Could you answer just one question? It seems to be the question everyone else in this thread refuses to answer. Why do YOU play pool?

Sure,
I love pool absolutely, its me and the table and me figuring out and learning everything I can about it. I love being able to figure out the skills to be had in this game its like a huge jigsaw puzzle that really can be simply explained if you look for the things to make it much simpler.

 

[duckie]

There is some truth to what you say about Motivation that is for sure but to say that finding a better technique is not what would help many people I disagree because many people are completely lost as to what to do to get them there.

Ive witnessed a lot of good intentioned people who really wanted to learn the game quit because they couldnt figure it out and they didnt have anything to get them really close to what they were needing so they could go the rest of the way on their own intution.

What I am trying to do with my system is give the closeness they need to what is really happening with shot picture and delivery target point so they can see for themselves and learn what needs to be seen and how to deal with the principles of CIT and Side Spin.

Up to this point I haven't seen anything that really gets you there and shows the whole picture as I'm laying it out. I am doing something different within a word "system" that has become tainted and viewed and complicated "as your post suggests in a round about way," and showing people a simpler way to a holistic approach itself is going to be a challenge and for each player that has to confront the idea that maybe what he is doing isnt working its going to a be a personal journey to figuring out that maybe taking a look at another approach might be the right thing to do.

People tend to lump what I am doing into what has been done, simply by application of the word......System.....and they have no idea how simple it might can be.

The sells pitch is getting old.

I ride and work in a motorcycle shop. There are some people that should not own motorcycles cause they just don't have a clue and nor do they want one.

Same in pool. Just don't have the motivation to seek the answers. Just don't have the motivation to learn. There is nothing you can do. That is just them.

The use of the word system is not the issue, but the claims made about that system, at times, will be. Just don't make claims you can not back up like there are gaps in ghost ball aiming and not give examples of such.

The whole issue is making claims and just wanting people to blindly accept that claim without question....ie gaps in ghost ball aiming.

If you truly are motivated to help people with their game, then your books would be free or maybe on a donation basis.

This is why I haven't done so with my stuff......its free cause I truly want to help people. Its so simple, even a kids and beginners can use understand and use it. Can't say that about all systems.

There is a difference in aiming and getting into position to shoot. I have no idea what people mean by alignment. For me, the only difference in applying spin v center ball is where I place the my bridge hand on the table.

Getting into position to shoot is solely dependent on the ball positions on the table. There is no aiming system that can cover all the shooting position possible. If all you play is 9 ball, you haven't a clue about what I'm talking about. I can say for a fact that never in a game of 9 ball is the CB been stuck in a middle of a full rack like can happen in 14.1.

Below is a example of what I am talking about. There are also times one leg has to go up on the table and so on. I have never thought about aligning anything, just get in to best shooting position allowable for the ball positions. Include a pic of that also.

Your motivation now is in promoting your books whenever possible, not really helping people.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Could you answer just one question? It seems to be the question everyone else in this thread refuses to answer. Why do YOU play pool?

Hi Randy,

I did not know you were asking the question literally & looking for answers. Perhaps a specific thread in the main forum might be a good idea.

I play it because it's a game my Dad introduced to me. I enjoyed playing it.

I enjoy competing, especially against myself. Hence, I enjoy the challenges that the game presents within one's inner self. Much like golf.

I also like the near immediate judgement that it can bring much like football does on every play. You know almost immediately whether or not you've won as an individual... for that play.

I hope that gives you an idea of why I play & enjoy playing.

Best 2 You & All,
Rick

 

[Chrippa]

Could you answer just one question? It seems to be the question everyone else in this thread refuses to answer. Why do YOU play pool?

Because it´s pulling me, it´s interest me in many .......................dots. And what´s pulling me is something that gets my attention and my attention goes to were I need to go to learn the things that are pulling me. And when somethings are pulling me I push forward.
The why´s will appear if you just let the things that pull you reveal itself by doing it.

Why do I read this thread, because it´s pulling me.

regards

Christian

 

[336Robin]

Ok I will address your post

The sells pitch is getting old.

I ride and work in a motorcycle shop. There are some people that should not own motorcycles cause they just don't have a clue and nor do they want one.

Same in pool. Just don't have the motivation to seek the answers. Just don't have the motivation to learn. There is nothing you can do. That is just them.
Exactly I want to help people that want help and thats it. If you dont want any help...no worries dont read my posts that contain what I have to offer.

The use of the word system is not the issue, but the claims made about that system, at times, will be. Just don't make claims you can not back up like there are gaps in ghost ball aiming and not give examples of such.

System is very much the issue, its viewed as bad, complicated and unnatural, The aiming wars here have been over exactly that...Systemization....
I dont make any claims that I dont back up in the book.

The whole issue is making claims and just wanting people to blindly accept that claim without question....ie gaps in ghost ball aiming.

If you truly are motivated to help people with their game, then your books would be free or maybe on a donation basis.

I spent a lot of time getting my material together for people that want it, if you do not want it thats fine, its your choice

This is why I haven't done so with my stuff......its free cause I truly want to help people. Its so simple, even a kids and beginners can use understand and use it. Can't say that about all systems.

There is a difference in aiming and getting into position to shoot. I have no idea what people mean by alignmentWhich says a lot in itself.
For me, the only difference in applying spin v center ball is where I place the my bridge hand on the table. Im glad you have things so simply figured out,
perhaps others should know.

Getting into position to shoot is solely dependent on the ball positions on the table. There is no aiming system that can cover all the shooting position possible. If all you play is 9 ball, you haven't a clue about what I'm talking about. I can say for a fact that never in a game of 9 ball is the CB been stuck in a middle of a full rack like can happen in 14.1.

Every shot you will ever shoot has commonalities, but you will never know because you dont care to.

Below is a example of what I am talking about. There are also times one leg has to go up on the table and so on. I have never thought about aligning anything, just get in to best shooting position allowable for the ball positions. Include a pic of that also.

Your motivation now is in promoting your books whenever possible, not really helping people.

You are absolutely wrong about that, that is akin to calling me greedy and you do not know me that well, I have some information to share if you care to buy it,

Its very affordable and books cost to print not to mention the hours spent writing and learning the skill sets I had to learn to do this. I did this because
I felt compelled to and now I have it for sale. If you truly believe in benevolence go work for free not suggest to someone else to. Just because I offer
a product that I am backing up with my good name does not give you the right to say it should be for free. You can say it but I wont follow your suggestion.

Duckie,
Here is my answers. I wish you would take those pictures down because they blow the thread all out of proportion and now you have to scroll sideways a mile.
While you are at it go tell your boss you now work for free.

 

[Chrippa]

The sells pitch is getting old.

I ride and work in a motorcycle shop. There are some people that should not own motorcycles cause they just don't have a clue and nor do they want one.

Same in pool. Just don't have the motivation to seek the answers. Just don't have the motivation to learn. There is nothing you can do. That is just them.

The use of the word system is not the issue, but the claims made about that system, at times, will be. Just don't make claims you can not back up like there are gaps in ghost ball aiming and not give examples of such.

The whole issue is making claims and just wanting people to blindly accept that claim without question....ie gaps in ghost ball aiming.

If you truly are motivated to help people with their game, then your books would be free or maybe on a donation basis.

This is why I haven't done so with my stuff......its free cause I truly want to help people. Its so simple, even a kids and beginners can use understand and use it. Can't say that about all systems.

There is a difference in aiming and getting into position to shoot. I have no idea what people mean by alignment. For me, the only difference in applying spin v center ball is where I place the my bridge hand on the table.

Getting into position to shoot is solely dependent on the ball positions on the table. There is no aiming system that can cover all the shooting position possible. If all you play is 9 ball, you haven't a clue about what I'm talking about. I can say for a fact that never in a game of 9 ball is the CB been stuck in a middle of a full rack like can happen in 14.1.

Below is a example of what I am talking about. There are also times one leg has to go up on the table and so on. I have never thought about aligning anything, just get in to best shooting position allowable for the ball positions. Include a pic of that also.

Your motivation now is in promoting your books whenever possible, not really helping people.

I must say that you are a very interesting person.
Not everyone seems to grasp things like you Duckie and in that you might find what you seek.
Play well:smile:!


Regards

Christian