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Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Well if I need to explain it, maybe you should stick to just walking.
You think you can aim better then me?
Anthony, he doesn't even know how to hold the cue. Stop talking to him. He is trolling.
"There are no hard shots, or easy shots, there are just shots" - CJ Wiley
That's precisely right. To pocket balls consistently, a player must "get down on the shot as if it's already been made".
I love it when a player takes extra time on a tough shot, it means they will probably figure out a way to "dog it". "Think long, think wrong" is the best rule of thumb. This doesn't mean to play fast, it means to play at a consistent tempo, no matter how challenging the shot may be. "There are no hard shots, or easy shots, there are just shots" - CJ Wiley
That's precisely right. To pocket balls consistently, a player must "get down on the shot as if it's already been made".
I love it when a player takes extra time on a tough shot, it means they will probably figure out a way to "dog it". "Think long, think wrong" is the best rule of thumb. This doesn't mean to play fast, it means to play at a consistent tempo, no matter how challenging the shot may be. "There are no hard shots, or easy shots, there are just shots" - CJ Wiley
I think cfrandy has been misunderstood by some.
Something is said & then it all turns into a dogfight of words.
When I'm playing well there is no 'real' thought. I see the shot & I shoot the shot.
I think that is what he is trying to say.
I have no conscious thought to how I am 'aiming'. If I'm using TOI it's just align ctc, cte, or c to the 1/4 line & execute. Because TOI is dynamic, it's not really aiming at all, at least not how I take the normal meaning.
When I'm shooting with english, it's much the same because there are dynamics involved.
If I or one is using a center hit then I think aiming becomes more important because there are less dynamics in play with which to 'use'. The aim line becomes more crucial.
Perhaps there is more feel in some methods than others.
Anyway, I think cfrandy is trying to make a point along those lines.
But, like Dennis Miller often says, I could be wrong.
Best to All,
Rick
Something is said & then it all turns into a dogfight of words.
When I'm playing well there is no 'real' thought. I see the shot & I shoot the shot.
I think that is what he is trying to say.
I have no conscious thought to how I am 'aiming'. If I'm using TOI it's just align ctc, cte, or c to the 1/4 line & execute. Because TOI is dynamic, it's not really aiming at all, at least not how I take the normal meaning.
When I'm shooting with english, it's much the same because there are dynamics involved.
If I or one is using a center hit then I think aiming becomes more important because there are less dynamics in play with which to 'use'. The aim line becomes more crucial.
Perhaps there is more feel in some methods than others.
Anyway, I think cfrandy is trying to make a point along those lines.
But, like Dennis Miller often says, I could be wrong.
Best to All,
Rick
No dogfight here..just having fun.
And i understand what he's saying and what it means to just let things happen.
I have a PSR, I use aiming methods as well as a method that just requires me to get the balls in the right position for me to fire. My way of connecting to the balls require me to visually look for something , judge where i need to hit the ob, how I'm going into that shot with the cb( Mainly judging speed) and all this requires me to think.
Then I let it happen. Some shots not to much thinking going on.This is what I do, you don't, good for you.
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To each their own on thinking, it could be said one didn't take enough time on the shot.
So you say.
"There are no hard shots, or easy shots, there are just shots"
You wanna bet some cash on that?
No dogfight here..just having fun.
And i understand what he's saying and what it means to just let things happen.
I have a PSR, I use aiming methods as well as a method that just requires me to get the balls in the right position for me to fire. My way of connecting to the balls require me to visually look for something , judge where i need to hit the ob, how I'm going to going into that shot with the cb( Mainly judging speed) and all this requires me to think.
This is what I do, you don't, good for you.
Hi Anthony,
I was not referring to you specifically. It just looked like he was getting ganged up on a bit over what might have simply been a misunderstanding.
I hear what you're saying. I'm not always in the exact same mode for whatever the reason. I certainly have a thoughtful method that requires a bit more of 'traditional' aiming.
The best golfers in the world can't always go to the course with their best 'auto pilot' game & most have a fall back to method to get them around the course as best as possible for that day.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Sorry Rick, wasn't referring to you specifically either..lol
This is a repost. I received a private message telling me I am crazy if I have to think about a hanger. I guess he never missed a hanger, or ball in hand like Mika and Efren have.
Ok call me crazy, better yet, I admit to crazy.
There could be a lot to think about on one shot or it could be just a simple 1 ft stop shot. You better think each and every one of them through completely, a hanger requires thought.
It's he who computes these thoughts quickly that remains even.
If Shane plays a shot with extreme spin 4 rails through traffic for position or a possible safe, maybe a 2 way shot, and tells you he didn't think about it....Bullcrap...He processes the info quickly, so quickly that he may have looked at 3 other options before his choice.
AZB is famous for making the game complicated. Recognize your options or choices and select. Once you have decided, don't look back, just execute. Tunnel vision doesn’t work on a pool table.
You must compute the info quickly otherwise prepare for the state mental institution.
I have two words to say about not thinking………Bullcrap
You must compute before you shoot, do it quick or sit on your stick looking like Gilbert Gottfried.
Sincerely: SS
Ok call me crazy, better yet, I admit to crazy.
There could be a lot to think about on one shot or it could be just a simple 1 ft stop shot. You better think each and every one of them through completely, a hanger requires thought.
It's he who computes these thoughts quickly that remains even.
If Shane plays a shot with extreme spin 4 rails through traffic for position or a possible safe, maybe a 2 way shot, and tells you he didn't think about it....Bullcrap...He processes the info quickly, so quickly that he may have looked at 3 other options before his choice.
AZB is famous for making the game complicated. Recognize your options or choices and select. Once you have decided, don't look back, just execute. Tunnel vision doesn’t work on a pool table.
You must compute the info quickly otherwise prepare for the state mental institution.
I have two words to say about not thinking………Bullcrap
You must compute before you shoot, do it quick or sit on your stick looking like Gilbert Gottfried.
Sincerely: SS
No need for the 'Sorry', on this end.
It's just the nature of the beast here of a text only with quotes format that lends to possible miscommunications. I think it's best to clarify asap whenever there's a chance.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
Dynamics? What are they?
Dynamics is an interesting word.
As I understand it Cte finds the aiming line to the pocket, so does my system,
Now I know the ball is going straight to the pocket in a line so what in the world are dynamics?...The shot doesnt go in a curve...Im beginning to get a feel for what it was I think it was Neil who said CJ cant explain what it is he does. As far as I know you have to find an aiming line of some kind but Im sure he has to be doing something special, like commune with the Universe or something....just open up and let the sunshine in...lol
So what are these mysterious dynamics?....Inquiring minds want to know!
Can you take a stab at it Rick?
Dynamics is an interesting word.
As I understand it Cte finds the aiming line to the pocket, so does my system,
Now I know the ball is going straight to the pocket in a line so what in the world are dynamics?...The shot doesnt go in a curve...Im beginning to get a feel for what it was I think it was Neil who said CJ cant explain what it is he does. As far as I know you have to find an aiming line of some kind but Im sure he has to be doing something special, like commune with the Universe or something....just open up and let the sunshine in...lol
So what are these mysterious dynamics?....Inquiring minds want to know!
Can you take a stab at it Rick?
Everyone thinks about what to do, but the better players do so more on a subconscious level. That's why I think speed control and positional drills are important.
The more you build common routes into your subconscious and muscle memory, the less you have to think about it (on a conscious level) when they come up in a game.
Thanks.
Im not a cte user I just dabble with it from time to time. I do believe in letting the subconscious do most of the work though (not saying that is how you use cte, Im not here to argue, Im just saying that is the way I understand it and play with it to work).
When I am playing for real I like to find the approximate line while standing and pretty much drop straight in on the shot. This means I have multiple starting positions. Lately I have been playing with just using the three starting positions of what I gathered from cte (one more for thin shots) and pivoting into my shots (not much but just a little)
Lately, and I mean this has lasted for about a week now, I have really been in the zone using this method. Every shot is effortless, no visualization, nothing. Just use the visuals I have been doing then pivot in and pop. What is funny is when I go back to my normal method, which is normally pretty good, I have been dropping out of the zone.
Pool is a funny game.
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One thing I've been experimenting with is standing directly behind the shot line. Then turning so my body is 45 degrees to the line, and then dropping straight down.
An easy way to practice this is set up a straight in shot to the side pocket. Stand right behind it, and then turn to your right (if right handed) and face the corner pocket on the side of the table you're shooting towards. Since the corner pocket is a 45 degree angle from the side pocket, it works really well.
Hi Robin,
Your post sounds a bit like some that have been posed to me in the past that were really very disingenuous & were really nothing but a disguised snare trap.
But....what I mean by more dynamic is that the CB is not rolling or spinning on just the horizontal axis alone from a perfect hit along the vertical axis.
Hence, there is squirt & side spin in play. Also the speed of the hit effects what those components can & can not do before making contact with the object ball.
So... to me, the initial line is not so vitally critical as the path to the OB will be affected by more dynamics or parameters than a hit on the vertical axis.
I can't & don't want to try to consciously calculate all those dynamics or parameters in play & hope that I come out with the proper equation. It's sort of like a tennis player hitting a top spin forehand over the net & back down before the end line. He doesn't consciously calculate that. He just does it by...'Feel'. And when he or she does so, the ball is moving in a manner beyond their control & is not merely sitting still before them.
I have hardly ever shot with BHE english per say. I've almost always shot with 'parallel' english. I put that in singles quotes as there are those like Patrick that will say that there is no such thing as parallel english.
I understand his & their point. But... in my mind, I am not utilising BHE nor FHE as it would normally be described nor for the reasons that many say one should. I don't & never have utilized the pivot point of a cue. I bridge short & I bridge long.
As I've said recently, I am rather glad that I started & learned to play before I had any physics education. I'm also rather glad that I received a physics education.
I can imagine what many think about some of what I say here & I would answer them much like Efren does, 'I got Lucky'.
Well...some say, the more I practice the More Lucky I get.
I hope that gives you an idea of what I mean when I say dynamics. Perhaps the word parameters would be more applicable.
I'm not one that is afraid of 'feel'. I'm one that embraces it & would trust it way before I would trust my conscious mind to do the calculations & arrive at the appropriate equation. That may also be in part because it was always stressed in my physics classes that it was much more important to understand the principles than it was to be able to do the actual math. Calculators had just started being allowed in classes & there were also computers for those that had bigger jobs at hand.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
PS MY wife just handed me your book.
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That is pretty much my normal method. Except my angle is slightly less than 45 degrees. I get behind the shot line, step into the shot while standing (cue on line), then drop in from there (straight). I try to imitate Mika. I believe I get close standing (which is pretty easy through experience) and my sub fine tunes the alignment on the way down automatically.
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Ok...Dynamics means....
I think I understand it that he is getting aligned and playing English squirting over to make his shot line without really ever seeing an aiming line. Its there it has to be. Sounds like he is playing his inside an squirting over toward the side of the pocket and cut on the ball is cutting the shot back.
I think I understand it that he is getting aligned and playing English squirting over to make his shot line without really ever seeing an aiming line. Its there it has to be. Sounds like he is playing his inside an squirting over toward the side of the pocket and cut on the ball is cutting the shot back.
Robin,
Did I waste time in my other reply?
Were you asking just about TOI?
If so, I can tell you what I do with it, but since CJ has posted, perhaps you'd rather hear it straight from him.
Like I said in my PS, I just got your book. I'll be sending you a PM soon.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Im just trying to figure out what you were saying, its obvious we arent understanding each other...no problem....I was just trying to figure out how he was playing that shot and no Id rather not hear it from CJ. I play inside the way I described to you I have no idea what CJ does only I understand a shot line when I do it to a target manipulation i use.