Ferrules - Threaded or Not?
- Thread starter GBCues
- Start date
I thread most of the time but that is my prefrence. I also choose to use slow drying epoxy for added strength unless someone needs it right now. Try booth ways and see which method you prefer, both work.
I use an uncapped ferrule and thread the top 3/8 of an inch.
I use a 3/4 inch threaded ferulle!
As long as the glue to wood to ferrule material is solid and holds, it makes no difference.
Threaded or non threaded, they both work.
The threded ferrule came about from production cues. You could glue the ferrule on, glue and screw the assembly together,then trim it all while the glue will keep setting up later.
With no thread on the tennon, you should wait for the glue to set before you can work on the ferrule.
Neil
Threaded or non threaded, they both work.
The threded ferrule came about from production cues. You could glue the ferrule on, glue and screw the assembly together,then trim it all while the glue will keep setting up later.
With no thread on the tennon, you should wait for the glue to set before you can work on the ferrule.
Neil
I feel there is less problems with threaded and capped ferrules than with straight tenon ferrules. Another method that is almost as good as threaded and capped is non-threaded but still capped. That is how most older cues Ivory Ferrules were put on. That would be my second choice. But I put almost all my ferrules on threaded and capped.
I seldom use threaded ferrules as I believe the threads weaken the tenon to much but, that is just my opinion as I have no proof one way or the other. I do always use capped ferrules, both ivory or LBM with no problems of them coming loose. The one drawback that I have with non-tapped ferrules however is that I use five-minute epoxy so as to not tie up the lathe to long. I would rather use a white glue to insure a clean transition from ferrule to shaft but set up time is much longer.
Dick
dave sutton
Banned
i like threaded only. im too scared down the road glue could fail and there will be a problem. also with a thead you dont have to wait to finish the tip and ferrule. i use capped and uncapped ferrules. depending on what the customer wants. 1/2 3/4 or 1 inch.
Opinion of a pool player, I like this two combinations:
threaded + no-capped
non-threaded + capped
However, my "cuemaker opinion" is different:
threaded + capped (LBM) for more durability
threaded + no-capped
non-threaded + capped
However, my "cuemaker opinion" is different:
threaded + capped (LBM) for more durability
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...:yes:...
I like it threaded b/c I think they are more durable and the bottom looks cleaner for a longer time.
Gary, the object of building a two piece cue stick is to make it mimic a one piece cues solid hit. All aspects of building a custom cue come back to this simple fact time and time again, and in my opinion this would include the way a ferrule is installed on the shaft. Ferrules that are slide on have a much higher tendency to fail over time than one that is screwed and glued on. In fact, I would have to say that 90% of the ferrules I replace that have just come loose and are not cracked were ferrules that were glued and slide on.
I doubt that anyone could dispute that a shaft with a threaded ferrule and tenon will have a more solid hit and that this construction technique will not easily allow a failure of a a properly installed ferrule.
JIMO
Hey Dick, have you ever tryed using a White Tint with your five minute epoxy. I also use epoxy for my ferrules, but I started mixing a White Tint made by West Systems with the epoxy, and all I can say is using this mixture I gives the cleanest transition I have ever seen.
Take care
Yes, I usually do use a whitener in the epoxy but it still seems to show as not as clean. Maybe I'm not using enough.
Dick
I don't really agree with this statement. I've put on somewhere between 12 and 1500 ferrules over the years and since I've always had a guaranteed for life policy, I feel they would have come back for a free change if a problem occurred. I believe the failures that occur with most ferrules is do to the material being used more than the technique of installation. I've changed many McDermott ferrules in the past and they are threaded on. They were fiber ferrules however and as most know, the problem with fiber ferrules is that they absorb moisture, swell in diameter and shrink in length until the glue breaks loose. The same occurs with the older house cues and of coarse the cheaper imported cues, who aren't using fiber ferrules but a friction fit between a plastic ferrule and the tenon with little, if any glue use. I don't think I've ever replaced a non threaded, quality ferrule put on with good glue from anyone. Besides, if the glue breaks down it makes no difference if the ferrule is threaded or not, it still needs replaced as it is going to make a click.
I've always considered a threaded ferrule as a manufacturing shortcut so that the equipment is not tied up while the glue dries. When a threaded ferrule is used the minor on the threads on the tenon is less than .250. Now it does take more time and effort for a non-commercial cue maker to thread his tenons and ferrules but not for the factories. I'm sure most have seen the film clip from McDermott where they cut the shaft tenon and cut the threads at the same time using the same tool in less than 2 seconds. I'm also sure that a custom cue maker uses a threaded ferrule, over a slide on because they believe it is a better way of installing and not as a short cut but I've never been convinced of any benefits other than the glue line. Just my .02 cents worth.
Dick
I'm one of those that do not thread the tenon. I agree with Dick that the minor diameter of a tenon's thread creates a weak point.
There are exceptions when the tenon is only threaded for the top half, such as what McD. does. The base of the tenon is at full diameter, which in McD's case is 3/8". I can't remember ever seeing a broken McD tenon.
I believe Schon does a similar installation except with a 5/16" tenon (only threaded at the top half). I don't recall ever having seen a broken Schon tenon either.
The method that I've used since day-one is to leave the tenon at full diameter (5/16"), unthreaded. The difference is how I prep the ferrule for installation. Using a thru ferrule for example, I'll drill a 5/16 hole through the ferrule then run a 5/16x18 tap through the hole. Taps are generally over-size, depending on their 'H' limit or tolerance. The tap will leave a set of shallow threads in the ferrule, allowing the cured epoxy to create threads on the tenon which will 'lock' the ferrule onto the tenon without the condition of a minor diameter. I've never had a ferrule come off unless I took it off.
Capped ferrules are done the same way with the exception of using a bottoming tap.
I suspect that others on this forum do something very similar.
There are exceptions when the tenon is only threaded for the top half, such as what McD. does. The base of the tenon is at full diameter, which in McD's case is 3/8". I can't remember ever seeing a broken McD tenon.
I believe Schon does a similar installation except with a 5/16" tenon (only threaded at the top half). I don't recall ever having seen a broken Schon tenon either.
The method that I've used since day-one is to leave the tenon at full diameter (5/16"), unthreaded. The difference is how I prep the ferrule for installation. Using a thru ferrule for example, I'll drill a 5/16 hole through the ferrule then run a 5/16x18 tap through the hole. Taps are generally over-size, depending on their 'H' limit or tolerance. The tap will leave a set of shallow threads in the ferrule, allowing the cured epoxy to create threads on the tenon which will 'lock' the ferrule onto the tenon without the condition of a minor diameter. I've never had a ferrule come off unless I took it off.
Capped ferrules are done the same way with the exception of using a bottoming tap.
I suspect that others on this forum do something very similar.
Ive done mine similar for years with no plans of changing
dave sutton
Banned
Ive learned over the last few years there is not only one way to skin a cat. As for my experiences. I have never fixed a threaded ferrule that just fell off. I have fixed slip in ferrules that have just fell off. I also have never fixed a treaded ferrule that the tenon broke off due to normal use. Misuse excluded.
So fwiw my numbers support threaded so that the way i go
i think its funny slip on ferrules are ok but tenon threaders are not. Live machined threadS are that much better. also thread on buttcaps and buttsleeves but not ferrules. Kinda goes against alot of beliefs... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
i am by no means attacking anyone spec just interesting to me
So fwiw my numbers support threaded so that the way i go
i think its funny slip on ferrules are ok but tenon threaders are not. Live machined threadS are that much better. also thread on buttcaps and buttsleeves but not ferrules. Kinda goes against alot of beliefs... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
i am by no means attacking anyone spec just interesting to me
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I must agree that there are many ways to do the same job, I am most likely the least experienced individual in this discussion so I appreciate the different views that are presented here. My comments have been solely based on the repairs I have done over the last 7 or 8 years which certainly confirms my comments above when my experience is compared to others in this conversation. However, I think from a purely mechanical point of view a threaded tenon is more structurally sound but I also understand why others think it can weaken the tenon. I would agree that if a tenon was not supported threading it would weaken the tenon due to its diameter. But, the tenon is supported by the shoulder of the shaft when a threaded ferrule is applied to the tenon so long as the bottom of the ferrule fits tightly against the shoulder. But, it is very important during the preparation of the tenon and the shaft shoulder that the tenon is dead straight and that the shoulder is perfectly flat. From a mechanical stand point will make the entire assembly consistently as strong as a solid unit do to the way stress is equally shared by the tenon and the shoulder at the base of it.
I suppose like everything else, there are certainly many ways to skin a Cat, and if it works effectively why change what you are doing, like they say in the Army if it ain't broke don't fix it!!!!!:thumbup:
Take care
I suppose like everything else, there are certainly many ways to skin a Cat, and if it works effectively why change what you are doing, like they say in the Army if it ain't broke don't fix it!!!!!:thumbup:
Take care