ferrules

Frank_Glenn said:
Actually, RSB is owned by Patrick Johnson. Bob occasionally posts there, as he does here, but Pat will be the one trying to run you off. :)
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ROTFLMAO...Frank, did you bow your head in reverence or make the sign of the cross upon typing in the almighty's name? :D
 
blud said:
I know you make ivory ferrules Blud. I've never played with one, but it is basically horn, just like buckhorn and goats horn and I thought they played much better than brass ferrules. A guy could still reach a top level using ivory. For me though, I just want to find the material that is as close to optimum as possible.



Colin, [COULD REACH TOP LEVELS]. I think that statement is a little off.

Many top players and world champions past and present,have and continue to use IVORY for there ferrules.

Players like, Mizerak, Hall, DeLiberto, Matya, Griffin, the Fusco boys, Jack "Jersey" Red Brite, U.J.Pucket, Reid, Grady Mathews, Lane, Varner, Zugland,Martin,Corn-bread Red, Lascottie,just to name a few, and many more "did" reach top levels playing with IVORY.

One thing I feel your missing, is most of the TOP cuemakers, [the builders]prefer IVORY on there cues. Who should know what plays the best?

As listed below, not in any order,

Schick, stroud, Ernie @Gina cue, Scruggs, Motty,Porper,Taskarella,Fuller, Kikle, Black, Bludworth, and many more.The list is to long..........
As good cuemakers, we know what's best for our cues. it's not about the money.

{Rolls, uses it's own engine in there cars, not another made by whoever}.

I know how my cues play and what to construct them with, for there best playability.

Take all the past and present, world champions, and most will use IVORY. This should tell us something.....

Ivory sir, does not play like the horn you speak of. I have tired white tail deer, Black tail deer, elk, goat, Bull horns and sheep horns. No way it plays the same. Your assuming it's the same as horn. It is, not.


Ivory, is the best thing going with the top players past and present, until someone like yourself comes with the new deal.

All of the above named folks, have there opinions as you and me. It's my opinion that IVORY is best for me and my cues.........

Please keep me informed on your interesting research. Would love to try something NEW...

I wish you all the best, with your experaments.

blud
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Thanks Blud,
I will keep you guys updated on research and testing from time to time and bring out some new ferrule materials for you to try.

When I lumped in Ivory with other horns, I guess it is over simplistic. While densities are similar, other material properties such as hardness, resiliance, elastisity, ductility etc are likely to vary somewhat....as different sources or parts of the bone will also vary.

When I said could...I meant, a player using Ivory ferrules could rise to elite levels. I didn't discount that players have already reached top levels using Ivory. That I think most here are fully aware of.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Colin Colenso said

That assumption is that the tip has 100% friction, or NO SLIDE on the cueball.
​
All of the experiments so far and the theory that has been developed from them are consistent with the tip not sliding on the cue ball. As Fred asked, do you have an experiment that would show otherwise?

If in fact this were entirely true, the cue call would stick to the end of the tip after impact.
​
I think you are confused about the basic nature of friction. By your argument, tires on cars would stick to the road and be ripped off the wheels. Of course, they are not.
Some will suggest that it is effectively 100% friction, but I do not believe this opinion at this time as the eveidence is against such a theory.​
What evidence?
I believe that squirt is in fact the result of some inefficiency in grip. It is evidence of a partially elastic collision occuring. This explains perfectly why cues of low end mass have a lesser degree of deflection.​
What has been observed can be explained by a completely elastic collision. No sliding is necessary.

The physicists love to ignore friction where they can because it is so complex. It is hard to put into calculations.
​
I urge you to re-read Ron Shepard's papers on pool physics and squirt. He does discuss friction and even has worked problems related to friction.
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Hi Bob,

Thanks for your comments, I'll address them below as best I can:

You wrote: All of the experiments so far and the theory that has been developed from them are consistent with the tip not sliding on the cue ball. As Fred asked, do you have an experiment that would show otherwise?

My reply: Actually, I don't believe any experiments have been carried out to prove their is no slip. It would require very advanced photographic techniques to observe the interaction between tip and cue ball.

Anyway, I know this will confuse issues, but the term slip, as I explained a couple of replies back, really has a very unclear meaning. It indicates a lack of friction, but friction itself is a kind of confusing because it does not mean that a collision is inelastic. Here is a brief explanation of friction.

Friction is said to occur when many small surface collisions act in a direction parallel to the direction of travel of the moving object or a still object with force applied to it. Actually all collisions are basically elastic, meaning they react as we see colliding billiard balls react. They bounce off each other.

When we say we have good grip, or little sliding, it really means that the collisions between the many surface points are mostly acting along the line of the movement of the cue.

But when we strike a rounded edge of a ball, it is all but impossible for this to happen. There will be collisions that push the tip and ball away from each other outside of the line of movement of the cue. This statement can be proven by thinking alone, so long as we understand what really happens at the surface of colliding objects.

It is supported by the fact that we observe deflection when playing with english. In fact, there is nothing in the equations by any of the billiard theorists thus far that shows any explanation for deflection from the line of cue movement. All they do it draw lines of force to say that there is a force acting through the centre of masses. This is really in support of what I am saying, albeit a very simplistic one which doesn't explain what is going on at the points of contact (of which there are millions). The deflection we see is actually a cumulative result of millions of force vectors for the millions of small collisions taking place. To say no slip, really assumes that all of these collisions are exactly parallel to the line of movement of the cue or that the sum of these collisions act perfectly parrallel to this movement. Either of these assumptions are groundless and untrue I believe.

You wrote: By your argument, tires on cars would stick to the road and be ripped off the wheels. Of course, they are not.

My reply: Actually, I probably confused people by giving the argument of a collision which is said to be totally inelastic where the objects stick to each other. It did however show, that under the proven law of conservation of momentum, that in such a case, an off centre collision does not change the direction of movement of the objects.

Even such a collision where objects stick together, is actually millions of sequences of elastic collisions. Some converted into air and electromagnetic vibrations puting out sound and heat.

Car tyres also collide elastically, their material and surface properties allowing them to direct significant force parallel to the apparent contact angle. Just like what we observe when a tip meets a ball.

Hope that clarified a few things. I really need to make some diagrams to illustrate what I am saying. I'll do that in time and get them online.
 
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look people i just wanted to know had anyone used the woody ferrules.....all this other shit that was started by certain assholes was not wanted or warranted......they dont have the nerve to start there own thread they want to destroy and ride mine.....so loo just tell me what you think of the woody ferrule and keep all that other shit for another thread......JUSTON COLEMAN
 
cuewhiz189 said:
look people i just wanted to know had anyone used the woody ferrules.....all this other shit that was started by certain assholes was not wanted or warranted......they dont have the nerve to start there own thread they want to destroy and ride mine.....so loo just tell me what you think of the woody ferrule and keep all that other shit for another thread......JUSTON COLEMAN
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Me thinks that Juston is starting to get a real woody due to the course of this shitty thread, so assholes beware if you don't want poked. Juston, I'm not trying to take this in another direction, but I can't help you on that answer. I've always put a white cap on my woody for protection.
 
drivermaker......thats to damn funny to be mad about.......the info you have provided is very resourceful but has not answered my questio ......thanks for the levity......juston coleman
 
cuewhiz189 said:
drivermaker......thats to damn funny to be mad about.......the info you have provided is very resourceful but has not answered my questio ......thanks for the levity......juston coleman
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i want to know too, it's it just a custom dyed Dymond wood ferrule???

Thanks,

Jon
 
Joseph Cues said:
I think they are just dymondwood myself.
Who'd want those as ferrules? :p
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you never know until you try :P, that's how i found out i didn't like the hit of a G10/FR4 glass epoxy ferrule...

Thanks,

Jon
 
G10/FR4 glass epoxy ferrule...

Thanks,

Jon[/QUOTE]


Is this ferrule/pin material made from an actual GLASS composition, or is it some kind of FIBERGLASS composite? Anyone know?
curious,
David
 
crawdaddio said:
G10/FR4 glass epoxy ferrule...

Thanks,

Jon
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Is this ferrule/pin material made from an actual GLASS composition, or is it some kind of FIBERGLASS composite? Anyone know?
curious,
David[/QUOTE]
G10/FR4 is a linen based thermo set. Basically it's wound linen (or flat lam linen) bound with an epoxy glass resin. Here is a quote from a website "Continuous woven glass epoxy, Extremely high mechanical strength, Low water absorption” It’s a type of micarta, which can be linen based (i.e.: ferrules), paper based (like what is used in ferrules, joints and inlays), canvas based, glass epoxy based or silicone based. Hope this helps :)

Thanks,

Jon
 
Yes it does...thanks.
A friend of mine had a local cuemaker put a G10 ferrule/tip(all one peice) on his jump cue and WOW that stuff jumps the cb extremely easily. It's almost cheating!
David
 
crawdaddio said:
Yes it does...thanks.
A friend of mine had a local cuemaker put a G10 ferrule/tip(all one peice) on his jump cue and WOW that stuff jumps the cb extremely easily. It's almost cheating!
David
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This was just getting interesting.
 
crawdaddio said:
A friend of mine had a local cuemaker put a G10 ferrule/tip(all one peice) on his jump cue and WOW that stuff jumps the cb extremely easily. It's almost cheating!
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It is against the rules, which require some kind of leather-like tip. I think that particular rule came in when the original jump rods had ferrules/tips made of solid phenolic.
 
Bob Jewett said:
It is against the rules, which require some kind of leather-like tip. I think that particular rule came in when the original jump rods had ferrules/tips made of solid phenolic.
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Thank you, I thought so.......


This was just getting interesting.

What are you inferring?
 
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