Fighting Your Eyes - Alignment.

2wld4u said:
Im right handed, Left eye dominate, so I dont align my left eye over the cue, I tried, but it just wasnt confortable, so I use both eyes, and yes it seems at times the shots look wrong. For this reason, if your having trouble pocketing certain shots, set them up, shoot them a 100 times each, everytime you practice untill you have mastered the shot, by shooting the shot over and over again you will imprint your brain with the correct alignment. When you shoot these your form needs to be up to par, if you shoot a 100 the wrong way, you might as well shoot a million, all you'll do generate is bad habbits.

I have found myself on certain shots correting with english to compensate for a misalignment, this is totaly wrong, and I suppose Imyself need to practice what I preach, so that will be my next big practice event..

good topic!


2wld4u
2wld4u,
I tend to agree with you that the adjustment method is probably not the best way to go. Though some have to do it and just get used to it.

While the adjustment method worked well for me. I am working on aligning from higher (4-8" above the cue), where my visualization of the line matches the real line. Though it is not the best perspective. I hope with more work I can train my eye's perception so that I can still visualize the correct line as I go lower.
 
After reading the thread I have a couple questions/comments.
This may sound retarded but how do you know that you are seeing all the shots differently from your actual line?
Is there a test to find this out that I could perform?

Can you really make adjustments of 1-3mm on any given shot?

I have the third eye stroke trainer and think that its great for what it teaches. I have always wanted something that would teach me to line up
dead straight with where I would like to line up. In truth I dont think that
I lineup correctly on all shots but dont really know if its possible to do 100% on the longer shots.
I think that a person can be aligned perfectly and not even hit the OB.
Being straight and having a nice straight stroke is great but its assuming that we can all just line that up perfectly in the direction of the shot.
Have you ever seen a person lineup an inch or so from where the contact point needs to be and their body/stroke swerve to try and hit it right.
How can we decifer if it was the persons eyes that misled them or that the person just can not get aligned in the right direction.
I know on some days in my followthru I tend to follow through a little crooked or a little to my left. Other days I feel perfectly straight. Could my eyes be misleading me and my head trying to overcome my error in alignment?

I dont profess to be very technical with the game. I understand contact points and what happens to the cueball and object ball during and after.
Beyond that I try to control my aim and alignment but have not found anything that would give me positive feedback on whether I was actually lined up correctly or not.
What are some good ways to test the vision and alignment portions to know which one is causing misses?
 
frankncali said:
After reading the thread I have a couple questions/comments.
This may sound retarded but how do you know that you are seeing all the shots differently from your actual line?
Is there a test to find this out that I could perform?

Can you really make adjustments of 1-3mm on any given shot?

I have the third eye stroke trainer and think that its great for what it teaches. I have always wanted something that would teach me to line up
dead straight with where I would like to line up. In truth I dont think that
I lineup correctly on all shots but dont really know if its possible to do 100% on the longer shots.
I think that a person can be aligned perfectly and not even hit the OB.
Being straight and having a nice straight stroke is great but its assuming that we can all just line that up perfectly in the direction of the shot.
Have you ever seen a person lineup an inch or so from where the contact point needs to be and their body/stroke swerve to try and hit it right.
How can we decifer if it was the persons eyes that misled them or that the person just can not get aligned in the right direction.
I know on some days in my followthru I tend to follow through a little crooked or a little to my left. Other days I feel perfectly straight. Could my eyes be misleading me and my head trying to overcome my error in alignment?

I dont profess to be very technical with the game. I understand contact points and what happens to the cueball and object ball during and after.
Beyond that I try to control my aim and alignment but have not found anything that would give me positive feedback on whether I was actually lined up correctly or not.
What are some good ways to test the vision and alignment portions to know which one is causing misses?
Hi Frank,
The way I test is basically to hit the CB in the center. I trust my stroke. If I really want to make sure I put my chin on the cue, with tip at center of CB and slide the cue along the exact same part of my chin.

I practiced this a lot in the past and have used lasers a lot to test the straightness of this method and it is almost perfectly straight and hence a very reliable guide of my real alignment.

Actually I believe the amount of error that is caused by accurate stroking is far less than most imagine. On many shots, even if we stroke so badly that we hit 2 tips of center of the CB, then the pot is often not deflected a great deal anyway, due to the compensatory component of deflection. Still, for higher accuracy, striking the CB where intended is important.

What I'm talking about with the eye's perception, is that if you look down your shaft and visualize the shot (choose a straight in shot to study this), you should at some point perceive that your cue is pointed through the center of the CB and the OB. When you perceive this, freeze the bridge solid and make sure not to move it.

Then stroke making sure to hit the center of the CB, not sweeping across the line. Observe what happens. People often find the OB misses to the same side by about the same amount over and over again. This is a fair sign that your eyes are giving a false perception of alignment.

Many players just avoid looking down the shaft if this is the case for them.

These contrasting lines of perception when looking down the shaft and then looking ahead at the OB are often the cause of second guessing during the stroke. Something doesn't feel right and the player sub-consciously (well almost) pulls or pushes across the line, or jumps up and shifts his bridge, trying to get the OB to get where he wants it to go.

Now if you know everything is lined up. You can just stroke through smoothly and without tension. It's actually very easy to stroke straight and accurately when you feel confident about the alignment.
 
Whoa! This thread is really exciting, thanks again Colin. I am wondering here (along with a lot of other stuff) how tied your aiming method/lack thereof is to your perception of "the line."

In my case, I've noticed that, on straight in shots, my stroke comes out much truer and I never "lose" the line during the transition from my standing address to when I'm over the shot.

I'm starting to think that's because a straight in shot is the only shot where I'm *aiming* my cue at a definite point in line with it. (I look at the base of both balls to make sure I'm dead center)

Not to start another aiming thread, but if I aim using the edge of the cueball for instance, my eyes will necessarily veer off "the line" and I may "lose" it in a downward position. Once I lose it, I'm much more likely to second-guess my stroke and swerve.

Therefore the complicated thing about sighting the shot for me, is not having a definite point I'm aiming my stick at unless we're talking straight in shots.

Andrew Manning also made some great points. However, like Colin said, I eventually noticed I was missing certain shots the same way. And that's when I decided to think about it consciously.

Keep it coming, gentlemen!
 
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Flex said:
I have exactly the same problem as you seem to have, and have found that Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye stroke trainer is getting me on track. I too need to shoot a bit to the right of what my eyes perceive as being the correct line. And it sure does work. In my case, the offset is more than 1-2 mm... maybe something like 5 mm. Crazy.

Flex
I just got my 3rd Eye yesterday as well, and it confirmed that I have the exact same problem as you and Colin.

I worked on long straight-in shots for an hour last week, and I noticed that the OB always missed to the left edge of the pocket. I first thought that my aim was fine, but that my stroke was crooked, such that I steer my cue to the right on follow through.

Upon getting my 3rd Eye yesterday and practicing with my daughter's transparent milk bottles (perfect diameter of a CB), I noticed that my original aim and cue angle was biased to the right side. I would stroke straight and through center of the CB, but my sight and cue angle is just off to the right.

When looking at the shot with the 3rd Eye and lining up straight, it seems the exact opposite happens. It seems like my aim and cue angle is biased toward the left, but I know that I'm lined up straight because the 3rd Eye tells me so.

I still have to hit some balls with the 3rd Eye (that probably won't happen for a week or two), but I do think that this little contraption will improve my game. Thanks for the endorsement Flex and anyone who has advised the purchase of the 3rd Eye. :)
 
Colin,

How do you really know this isn't a stroke problem? I'm not saying that it isn't something in your visual alignment, but it does seem to me that a "bad" stroke can cause the same issues.

My experience is that I have a tendency to pull the cue from outside to inside, which causes the tip to do the opposite as it pivots through the bridge. The overall effect is that I hit cuts to the left a bit thin, and cuts to the right a bit fat. One way to try to see this is to set up straight shots with the OB in the center of the table and put the CB 1 diamond away from a corner pocket. When my stance is off, I miss both shots to the left, ie shooting at the bottom right corner I hit the short rail and shooting at the bottom left corner I hit the long rail first.

The solution that was suggested to me, and really does seem to help, is to turn my back foot outwards in my stance. I have noticed that if I swing my arm in a natural motion in my stance but without a cue, my arm wants to naturally swing perpendicular to the line of my back foot. By placing that foot perpendicular to the aiming line I am much more likely to stroke along the intended line and pocket the ball, but I am not correcting my aim point to do it.

Just some food for thought. I tried a "corrected" aiming method for a while (estimating about 1 mm per diamond of distance over 2 diamonds) but it ended not being consistent enough to be really helpful.
 
I've been playing seriously for about two years, and this problem has almost driven me crazy at times. After incessant trial and error I've concluded that you just have to keep experimenting and then stick with what works--though "compensating" every time is difficult and can get old. I've concluded that as with virtually all sports, superior vision is critical to top-notch performance in pool and I'll always be limited by my vision problems (among many other limitations). The trick is not to let the frustration get to you.
 
Fliedout said:
I've been playing seriously for about two years, and this problem has almost driven me crazy at times. After incessant trial and error I've concluded that you just have to keep experimenting and then stick with what works--though "compensating" every time is difficult and can get old. I've concluded that as with virtually all sports, superior vision is critical to top-notch performance in pool and I'll always be limited by my vision problems (among many other limitations). The trick is not to let the frustration get to you.

Get Joe Tucker's 3rd Eye stroke trainer and see your frustration fly out the window...

Flex
 
EXCELENT posts guys!....The only thing I can add is I use 2 "anchor" points to check I'm aligned. I just had a similar epiphany last week Colin. I have been wrongly aligned for a LONG time.

I came up with my chin as point #1, and

a point on my chest/shoulder as point #2.

I adjusted #2 until I was making the ball dead center of my target, then made a note of that position, wrote it all down and locked it into the memory bank.

So far so good, and I ran a 68 last night with no "old bad habits" of cutting the ball short one way and long the other.

Good Luck, Gerry
 
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