finding lessons

[Egg McDogit]

If you find the RIGHT teacher, what you learn will be invaluable. If you find the wrong teacher, you're going to be in a world of pain trying to unlearn what they taught you. Unfortunately every single teacher I've come across in my area (aside from 1) has close to no idea of what they're doing - yes this includes bca certified instructors. My personal feeling is that in order to teach, someone should at least be solid A speed, or chances are they are hurting you as much as they are helping you.

About the word "qualified". BCA-certified definitely has nothing to do with this word. I can't speak for randyg or scott since I have no idea what they teach.

I can tell you that I'm very serious about the game and after I reached a certain speed, my best instructor has been accustats and a video camera.

The problem with "paying" a player to help you, is that they typically don't know how to communicate effectively, like a teacher does. "Just do it this way." doesn't cut it for most people. About the comment of having the "right cue"...LMAO! Get some qualified instruction, and you'll learn how to make ANY cue work for you! You've heard many posters here speak to the benefits of lessons...and only two against (who probably wouldn't benefit from instruction, because of their attitude, anyway)! You do the math.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

gold crown

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[Cory in DC]

If you find the RIGHT teacher, what you learn will be invaluable. If you find the wrong teacher, you're going to be in a world of pain trying to unlearn what they taught you. Unfortunately every single teacher I've come across in my area (aside from 1) has close to no idea of what they're doing - yes this includes bca certified instructors. My personal feeling is that in order to teach, someone should at least be solid A speed, or chances are they are hurting you as much as they are helping you.

About the word "qualified". BCA-certified definitely has nothing to do with this word. I can't speak for randyg or scott since I have no idea what they teach.

I can tell you that I'm very serious about the game and after I reached a certain speed, my best instructor has been accustats and a video camera.

I'll agree with Egg. I'm a B player, and I don't think I would feel comfortable taking lessons from someone that couldn't beat me consistently. And I've met a number of BCA certified instructors that can't do so (and many that can).

This doesn't mean you can't learn from someone that's not better than you, particularly at the higher levels (e.g., Butch teaching Tiger). But if you can't string a couple of racks fairly often, then you're probably doing something wrong yourself, and so you may not have a lot to teach, or might teach some things that are wrong. I'd make an exception for players who used to be A players but whose age or other debilitation has made them no longer competitive--you could learn a lot from them.

Also, I'd say that instructors that play B speed could teach D and below players -- stance, stroke, basic aiming, draw, .... the basics. But they wouldn't be good teachers for everybody.

Cory

P.S. Egg--there's at least one guy who teaches around here that plays A speed and is a BCA Certified Master Instructor. PM me if you want his info.

 

[Scott Lee]

I have no problem playing for "bragging rights"! I see you're an "instructor"...after I posted, of course , but I'm still not even a little afraid to play you. I hope you CAN teach me something while we play. even if I win I may very well learn something from you. I'll look forward to playing you some time in the near future. oh, I learn all the time from people who "can't beat me", but usually it's more about "MY" abilities than them showing me anything worth watching. anyways, my phone number is (814)602-5526 if you want to call me and get together. I work first shift so early is out of the question. after 3pm here. talk to ya' soon Scott,Jeff

I'll look forward to it Jeff!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

 

[Egg McDogit]

Does he play pro speed 1 pocket?

P.S. Egg--there's at least one guy who teaches around here that plays A speed and is a BCA Certified Master Instructor. PM me if you want his info.

 

[Chris]

One thing to keep in mind. When you pay for a service, whatever it is, the person, or company, they then feel obligated to work for you.

When you get free advice it is very true that it is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Every once in a lifetime a knowledgable person will share his knowledge for free. But that is rare.

I have encountered a few better players that have been happy to share their knowledge for free. One does not have to pay for a lesson in order for it to be valuable.

In fact, just because you pay for a lesson does not ensure the instructor is qualified, in pool or any other activity. That doesn't mean that there are no instructors worth the price. The student needs to do their homework to find the right instructor for them, based on their individual needs.

Regardless of the instructor, the work and the progress is in the practice. A good instructor cannot make anyone a good player. A good instructor gives the students the tools necessary to improve their own game.

 

[Cory in DC]

Does he play pro speed 1 pocket?

The guy I'm talking about is mostly a 9-Ball player who also likes 8-ball. He can still beat me handily in 1P, but it's not his specialty.

I don't think the top 1 pocket players around here (Tom-Tom, Bus Driver, maybe Bobby Hawk,...) are BCA instructors. I wouldn't mind lessons from any of them, though.

Now that I think about it, it occurs to me that you're talking about Jon. His 1P game is very strong, but not at Tom-Tom's level. He's been shooting great 9-ball lately, too. But he's not an instructor. In fact, I think his stroke is kinda funny looking, but it works.

Cory

 

[Koop]

Koop we can talk about it Monday.

Steve and I took a class about a year/year and a half ago.

It certainly changed how I do things.

http://www.billiardacademy.com/events.htm

Sounds good man.
I'm actually planning on visiting Hal within the next year so that should really help with the progress.

See you Monday buddy, at Renaissance.

Koop - finally got copies of the schedule

 

[shakes]

Lessons

If I may, I recently went to visit with Randy and take his advanced course. I live in MS, and I drove to Dallas to take the 3 day class, to see what I could do if I had a "coach". When I say recently, I mean I took the course this past weekend. I had my own table at home, I had a mirror that I watched my stroke the ball in, I don't know what class player I was as we don't have the classifications of A, B, etc., around my area, but perhaps Randy can chime in and let me know. I have tons of books, I read all of the forums for workout routines, ways to check your stroke, blah, blah, blah.

The thing that is wrong with self diagnostics from a book, or reading the forums is that every person is different. You will hear that you need a perfectly level stroke, but your upper arm is never supposed to move. These two phrases are in direct opposition to one another. I want to be the best player that I can be, but I don't have 8 hours a day to play in a pool hall to overcome my mechanical deficencies.

The advanced class is mainly about getting you to be the best you can be at finding where you want to shoot the ball, and delivering the cue ball at that point. This is not a strategy class, it's all about getting your body and mind working to do what you need to do to advance in the quickest manner possible. It teaches you how to deliver exactly the same each and every time, and ingrains that consistency that every pool player needs. Randy takes each student and finds what they need to make their pool game better. He works to make sure that at the end of the three days you are prepared to take your game several steps further than where you are currently.

I will give an update in a couple of weeks as to my improvement after taking the class. Randy recommends taking two weeks off from competition to make sure that the changes you make ingrain themselves fully, not just in practice. I HIGHLY recommend you take the time to visit Cuetech if you have the time and will to make yourself better in the least amount of time. Do not read that last sentence wrong, I'm not saying that this is a shortcut, but he will make your learning curve significantly shorter than if you are attempting to learn from the locals or diagnose yourself from a book.

Thanks again Randy,

~Marc

 

[Padron]

I'd be more than happy to invite Scott and Jeff to our room near Erie. You guys want to put it together, I'll get the word out. I might even donate the time.

-Padron-
co-owner of Great Lakes Pool & Billiard Academy
www.greatlakesbilliards.com

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

Dan?

deleted by me

 

[shark3149]

I wasn't going to say any thing but I can't take it. The guys that tell you not to take lessons are just crazy. I would highly recomend lessons for any one that wants to improve there game,but you only can lean if you truely commit and willing to listen to what they tell you and show you.You have to put in the time to practice,and not just bang balls around.

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

comment

deleted by me

 

[Blackjack]

if you can do what others tell you to and how they tell you to, then by all means...get lessons! I always figured things out for myself though and have a problem with authority, so lessons were kind of a no-go for me, but I have taken alot of "suggestions" from better players in my area and used them my own way. I just can't stand being someone else's "puppet", and doing things their way...but maybe you can listen to "the right way to do things"

FWIW, thinking that you have all the answers and /or being too proud to ask for the guidance and wisdom of others is the easiest way to limit your potential. A lack of humility has stunted the growth of many players - the key is to remember that none of us are above learning anything from anybody. None of my lessons are "authoritative" in any way. I find ways of enhancing, developing, and strengthening the skills that you already possess - its up to the player to listen, learn, work, & apply that knowledge. Of course, there are players that don't / won't follow through on their responsibilities (due to being stubborn, arrogant or lazy) - and IMO that is what separates the champions from the complacent contenders.

 

[Scott Lee]

FWIW, thinking that you have all the answers and /or being too proud to ask for the guidance and wisdom of others is the easiest way to limit your potential. A lack of humility has stunted the growth of many players - the key is to remember that none of us are above learning anything from anybody. None of my lessons are "authoritative" in any way. I find ways of enhancing, developing, and strengthening the skills that you already possess - its up to the player to listen, learn, work, & apply that knowledge. Of course, there are players that don't / won't follow through on their responsibilities (due to being stubborn, arrogant or lazy) - and IMO that is what separates the champions from the complacent contenders.

tap, tap, tap, David! Well said! I also never 'talk down' to my students, and try to help them to utilize what they already have...THEIR natural bridge, THEIR natural stance, THEIR natural tempo and timing...and only offer ways to improve on what they are already doing! One thing, most people don't know how to practice correctly...and that's a huge benefit for anyone wanting to really improve their game!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee

 

[Doug]

Re:Instruction

In WWII most pilots were taught how to fly an airplane by school teachers who had never been in an airplane. Pilots were all busy fighting a war but with proper instructional manuals teachers were able to teach others how to become a pilot because what they knew how to teach at the level of understanding that their students could comprehend. Of course, the ones who only wanted to be taught by people who could fly better than they could never got off the ground. Saying instruction is a waste of time is just ignorant! It's like saying you shouldn't have to take English in school because you already know how to talk. Everyone won't learn the same amount but everyone will learn "something". The only thing that can be questionable is was it worth the amount of money it cost. That is subjective. Beginners should find a certified "experienced" instructor and work with that person for the first year of playing and spend what their budget allows "before" buying upgraded pool cues and tables; especially expensive cues and tables. Use the same approach you would in college. I know this because I did it opposite of what I am advising. Bottom line:seek instruction.

 

[RBLilly]

Lessons

I agree with the people telling you to take lessons. I had a lot of people in my pool league tell me that I shouldn't waste my money on pool school in DFW. I didn't listen to them, because Jennifer Barretta told me to find someone and take lessons. Even Tony Robles told me to take some lessons.

Just like the guy that was talking about the pilots, if you go to a good instructor, they will see what your doing wrong. I have been in my league several years, and nobody in the league picked up on me gripping my cue too tight when I would take my shot. This kept me from having a natural follow through.

There are some really good pool players in my league, but none of them picked up on this. At pool school they picked up on it in about 30 minutes! They also had the video of me to show me what I was doing.

In three days they broke me of some bad habits, and I came home and began practicing. It lit a fire under me to get better.

This was early June. We are now almost at the end of July, and people are already asking me what I am doing to get better, because I am starting to smoke them on the table!

I am about to start individual lessons, but I think you should take the 3 day pool school just to get a good basis started. After all they teach quite a few of the instructors that are liecensed in TX.

Then you could go and get individual training to sharpen those skills.

Then back to pool school for some expert training.

Then back to individual training to get even sharper.

The way I see is like this, if I bust my ass for the next year I should be at a whole different level than most the people on my pool league.

Then of course after that, I got to keep getting better.

Pool School will definately get you started in the right direction, and it isn't far from you.

www.poolschool.info

Besides, what you got to loose? Wouldn't it be cool to go back to the people that said don't waste your money, and start taking their's?

 

[pooltchr]

Very good points. One good thing about the instructor network is the instructors often work with one-another as well as with students. I go to Dallas and teach with Randy, and I always learn something. It's possible Randy may even have learned something from me. When Scott Lee is in town, you better believe the two of us will be spending time together at a pool table. Count Bob (Cane) Nunley into the mix as well. We are all instructors, but we are also students, always learning new things, and different ways to help our students. Now if instructors can learn something in pool school, it stands to reason that most all players will gain something from professional instruction as well. But as it has been pointed out before, the instructors have the easy part of the job...we provide the knowledge and information to the student. The student has to be willing to learn, and then work on incorporating that information into his or her game. If the student has too much pride to actually accept the information and apply it through practice, then it becomes a waste of time for everyone.
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Steve

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

ok

deleted by me

 

[Padron]

Lessons, teaching...

ok blackjack, it sounds like maybe I COULD learn something from the way U teach. I just can't do something cause someone else says "that's the right way". I use what has worked for me and nothing more...nothing flashy, don't get arrogant, I just play the way I think is best for me, and if you could enhance that nicely, then hell yeah I wanna learn. teachers around here aren't like that though

Jeff,

Like I said, you guys want to put it together, word can make its way around. Glad you like our cloth better than Gold Crowns'. I figure we'll get more busy as fall comes up. We're picking up now, which is good. Can't really compare number of bodies to Gold Crown. They have years of being in business, along with an easier location to draw from, than we do. That said, "players" do seem to enjoy us more for the equipment. That, and the $5 all day special. The local social players sure like it.

You said that teachers around here aren't like some others, in that they only teach the "right way". I'm not so sure that I can fully agree with that. As a BCA recognized instructor, I teach pretty much the same that I was taught by Tom Simpson, as it's a very simple method of stroke AND instruction. From a purely physical viewpoint, it entails fewer moving parts than a style like, say, Efren's. What I try to get across to students is that while they are always free to stroke the cue in any manner they like, I'm going to teach what I've found works well for many people. If you have a particular stoke style that you refuse to change from, then so be it. Don't look to an instructor for stroke lessons, in that case. More likely, take lessons on strategy, or ball movement, that kind of thing. One caviat, though. If you can't consistently repeat a stroke, regardless of style, than you'll only get so far. I find that the style I've learned and teach is more repeatable than my previous style. It works, clearly, so I can confidently teach it. If your stroke breaks down under pressure, or on certain shots, than don't be too stubborn to be willing to change to something else.

Stop by sometime and we'll go over it, if you'd like.

-Dan-