Fish? Sucker? or Student?

FSutton

FSutton

4 Rails!
Silver Member
So Stationed in Florida after two years here I just had the urge again and found a great poolroom I really like, the real deal with the characters, the shortstops, the big action(to watch), etc. So I've been going in there since August 3 or 4 times a week practicing 8-10 hours everytime I go.

At first I would play just about anybody. I played alot with a guy named Randy Epperson who is a pretty good player and an interesting character to say the least with great old stories, he finally taught me a few things but only after taking about 370 off me over the course of months, and took lessons from "Monster" John Rouse.

So here's the question I'm a C player maybe but I'm improving alot. Question I pose to you is if I keep playing with this guys like Epperson and people way better than me and keep losing with a big spot am I a fish? a sucker? or a Student?

That's my problem. It's like the guys that don't gamble call you a fish if you play the best player even with a spot. The good players that gamble woof at you and say you got no heart. Damned if you do or don't.

Truth is I feel I've played better and picked up a few things here and there from the best players. The funsies not so much (there is one guy who posts on here that I dont' gamble with that has taught me some things but he's it), I feel they hurt my game cause nothing is on the line and if you miss.. well you miss. I don't bet high small chump change maybe dumped 1200 since August.

so fish, sucker, or student? :confused:
 
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You are only what you think you are.

If you think you have a chance to win but never do, you are a sucker, which is the worst.
If you never have a chance to win you are a fish, which is ok.
If you know the story and what you are in for, you are Student which is the best.

Please never listen to people in pool rooms. Those who are saying you are stupid probably never bet a nickle in their life without the stone cold nuts and those woofing at you are just trying to get under your skin to rob you.

You never get any better without pushing the limits. If you always get a fair spot you never have to push your game. If you never play better players you will never get better. Keep it cheap. Gamble with the better players that show you respect and appreciate the action. Pay attention to what they show you while gambling. Losing gambling is just another way to pay for lessons.
 
My thoughts

FSutton said:
So I was obsessed with pool back in 1999-2000 but I never played too well then but I loved to play, I loved the cues, bank pool, and one pocket, I even put in an order for a Hercek after some guy showed me the blue book. Well I went off and joined the military and just quit cold turkey. I hit a few here and there in bars but forgot alot of what I knew and didn't try to learn anything. The interest has gone for the moment Fast forward 8 years. Station in Florida after two years here I just had the urge again and found a great poolroom I really like, the real deal with the characters, the shortstops, the big action(to watch), etc. So I've been going in there since August 3 or 4 times a week practicing 8-10 hours everytime I go.

At first I would play just about anybody. I played alot with a guy named Randy Epperson who is a pretty good player, he finally taught me a few things but only after taking about 300 off me over the course of 3 months, and took lessons for "Monster" John Rouse.

So here's the question I'm a C player maybe but I'm improving alot. Question I pose to you is if I keep playing with this guys like Epperson and people way better than me and keep losing with a big spot am I a fish? a sucker? or a Student?

That's my problem. It's like the guys that don't gamble call you a fish if you play the best player even with a spot. The good players that gamble woof at you and say you got no heart. Damned if you do or don't.

Truth is I feel I've played better and picked up a few things here and there from the best players. The funsies not so much (there is one guy who posts on here that I dont' gamble with that has taught me some things but he's it), I feel they hurt my game cause nothing is on the line and if you miss.. well you miss. I don't bet high small chump change maybe dumped 1200 since August.

so fish, sucker, or student? :confused:
Click to expand...

Do you ever win or do you always donate. I am all for playing better plays as it is very good for you. However, a good friend of mine who is a great player. Told me one of the wisest things when I was doing exactly what you are doing trying to get better.

He said: "Losing does nothing for your confidence" Be careful you dont lose so much that you think you are suppose to lose all the time. Make sure you book enough winners to keep the confidence high. Playing better players is good for you to a point. However if you are only a C player you must first improve your fundamental by practicing the right way and maybe getting lessons with the money you are donating. I wouldn't start messing with the big boys, even with a big spot until I was at least a B+ to and A player.

If you are a C and the guy is good you can basically pick a color in nine ball and you can't win, so I would say tighten up your game first than jump back into the tank in about 1 yr or so.
 
I am not familiar with the players mentioned. If they are that stong you make a very good point. The player has to be within a few speeds. Playing a great player with a big spot does not do too much for your game except get you comfortable in the chair.
 
Student

I know that opinions vary widely on this subject, but in my personal experience, the players who really want to improve and who are willing to get in there and mix it up for a few bucks with better players seem to improve more rapidly than those who don't. I certainly wouldn't call you a sucker for going about it in this way (as long as you are seeing improvement and are not betting amounts that could impact your financial stability), and I would just ignore those who are calling you one.

I would suggest, however, that you should be not only focusing on improving your shooting skills, but also on your ability to match up well. In order to maximize the learning potential and to minimize losses, you should be trying to match up in a way that at least gives you a chance to win. This will not only force your opponent to show you his best game (which helps you learn more), but will also put the appropriate amount of pressure on you as well, since you will feel that you can win if you play your best.

I get the feeling that you're more concerned with learning than you are with the money, but I would submit that a C player who matches up like an A player will not only improve more rapidly, but will probably win more than he loses. Along those lines, I would suggest that you familiarize yourself with the common spots (and their order of strength) for whatever game(s) you play, and try to get a feel for what you need to make an even game with someone you're matching up with. Also keep in mind that matching up should be a negotiation process; when asked what you want, ask for more than you think you need and barter down from there. If you've been getting run over by a certain player, then it is reasonable (and should be expected) for you to ask for more weight. Even if you don't care about losing the money, for the sake of your confidence (which is HUGE in this game) you need to win occasionally, and matching up poorly makes that hard to do.

I would say that you are a student, but you will want to make sure that you are an "A" student instead of a "C" or "D" student, which would be starting to border on "fishdom". :)

Good luck,
Aaron
 
Well I don't always donate. I have won money but I'm definately down in the long run. I forgot to mention I play alot of cards too. lol so all the loses are not pool. I have won games against B players and won the money. I play banks at a B level. I've even beat one of the better guys once with the spot. (but he quit after being just 20 down after I had lost maybe 120 to him over a few months). I never lost much in one night.. I went overboard a few times by not walking away trying to recoup. Lessons learned the expensive way. Kindav stuck in the middle.
 
Take lessons from the guy I took you to last week, he showed me some banking stuff last night that will have you robbing those guys almost immediately. F has been matching up better, but he's in a snakepit:grin:
I will gamble with you, but I'd rather see you get their money. call me when you get back.
 
O i'm back now. I'll be in on Wednesday. I'll play you some cheap one pocket jason but i'm gonna need 10 5 in banks. lol

edit: 11 - 5
 
FSutton said:
O i'm back now. I'll be in on Wednesday. I'll play you some cheap one pocket jason but i'm gonna need 10 5 in banks. lol
Click to expand...
What's one-pocket? Can't do New years eve, but soon enough. Maybe 10/5-9/5. I think I would have to play my a$$ off to win this game.
8/6-9/6 with the break on second thought.
 
New Year's . lol nobody told me you can see the active social life I live. I'm sure we can cross paths soon enough and I'm am going to take up some time with that guy. Just waiting for payday. RC and Christmas cleaned me out. lol
 
FSutton said:
New Year's . lol nobody told me you can see the active social life I live. I'm sure we can cross paths soon enough and I'm am going to take up some time with that guy. Just waiting for payday. RC and Christmas cleaned me out. lol
Click to expand...
Gonna be gettin in RC's pocket soon enough:grin-square: . Call me, tried to call you but no answer.
 
Hey check your PMs left the phone at home by accident. I gave you the number for where I'm at

o and I want ringside seats to that RC match. lol
 
FSutton...Well, you're either a fish or a sucker...not a student, because these guys are not teachers...they are PLAYERS. There is a big difference. I would find yourself a good qualified instructor, and find out the things that can REALLY help you improve. Nothing wrong with gambling, but it won't help correct the flaws in your process (if you even have one). We can steer you to an instructor, or I can work with you in April, when I'm down in FL all month.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

FSutton said:
So I was obsessed with pool back in 1999-2000 but I never played too well then but I loved to play, I loved the cues, bank pool, and one pocket, I even put in an order for a Hercek after some guy showed me the blue book. Well I went off and joined the military and just quit cold turkey. I hit a few here and there in bars but forgot alot of what I knew and didn't try to learn anything. The interest has gone for the moment Fast forward 8 years. Station in Florida after two years here I just had the urge again and found a great poolroom I really like, the real deal with the characters, the shortstops, the big action(to watch), etc. So I've been going in there since August 3 or 4 times a week practicing 8-10 hours everytime I go.

At first I would play just about anybody. I played alot with a guy named Randy Epperson who is a pretty good player and an interesting character to say the least with great old stories, he finally taught me a few things but only after taking about 370 off me over the course of months, and took lessons from "Monster" John Rouse.

So here's the question I'm a C player maybe but I'm improving alot. Question I pose to you is if I keep playing with this guys like Epperson and people way better than me and keep losing with a big spot am I a fish? a sucker? or a Student?

That's my problem. It's like the guys that don't gamble call you a fish if you play the best player even with a spot. The good players that gamble woof at you and say you got no heart. Damned if you do or don't.

Truth is I feel I've played better and picked up a few things here and there from the best players. The funsies not so much (there is one guy who posts on here that I dont' gamble with that has taught me some things but he's it), I feel they hurt my game cause nothing is on the line and if you miss.. well you miss. I don't bet high small chump change maybe dumped 1200 since August.

so fish, sucker, or student? :confused:
Click to expand...
 
Play in all the tournaments you can. Enter up to the 50.00 entry fee tournaments. Generally speaking the larger the entry fee the higher the race will be (races to 7, 9 or 11 would be great for you). The players will understand you are entering them to get better and will respect you for that. Its the cheapest way to play the good players and get better at the same time.

Gambling and losing all the time isn't good for your game and confidence. I will probably get hammered by the players (killing action) but they could always go get a job!
 
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