Fix 9 Ball Break Shot/Answer

[Island Drive]

With all the back and forth, ideas concepts etc of how to remove the controlled break shot and make this game better for all.

Here's how to make it Simple, and eliminate this aspect of the game.

Nine in the middle, all other balls random placement.

Break Shot....

The head ball will be ANY ball.

On the Break.... Head Ball must be struck First.

Earl Knows, it allows the breaker too much game control.
He's Right!

bm

 

[hang-the-9]

Are longer or tougher games in 9 ball the answer to making that game better? I think more people get exited on seeing a 5/6/7/8 pack run than seeing a bunch of bunting around trying to get the first shot off. Unless you are a fan of one pocket that is, then seeing the game go on for a while with balls rolling around the table is more acceptable.

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 10 ball hehe.

 

[King T]

Are longer or tougher games in 9 ball the answer to making that game better? I think more people get exited on seeing a 5/6/7/8 pack run than seeing a bunch of bunting around trying to get the first shot off. Unless you are a fan of one pocket that is, then seeing the game go on for a while with balls rolling around the table is more acceptable.

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 10 ball hehe.

Your right about longer races. Its either longer races or round-robin so that you don't get eliminated by the break. While its seldom that anybody runs out the set it still seems to be big topic, why I dont know.

If you look at the statistics that ATLARGE puts together after major major events, the break is only a slight advantage no matter how the balls are racked?

P.S. and thanks again ATLARGE for doing what you do!

 

[Black-Balled]

With all the back and forth, ideas concepts etc of how to remove the controlled break shot and make this game better for all.

Here's how to make it Simple, and eliminate this aspect of the game.

Nine in the middle, all other balls random placement.

Break Shot....

The head ball will be ANY ball.

On the Break.... Head Ball must be struck First.

Earl Knows, it allows the breaker too much game control.
He's Right!

bm

Shortsighted. This only solves the 'problem' until it gets figured out...again.

 

[JolietJames]

Are longer or tougher games in 9 ball the answer to making that game better? I think more people get exited on seeing a 5/6/7/8 pack run than seeing a bunch of bunting around trying to get the first shot off. Unless you are a fan of one pocket that is, then seeing the game go on for a while with balls rolling around the table is more acceptable.

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 10 ball hehe.

I'm a big proponent of 10Ball replacing 9ball in all world championship events.
I don't believe anyone should win or lose a rack on the break.
I don't feel slop should count at the pro level.
10B solves both of these issues.
I HATE "golden breaks".
MR would love to see someone snap 9 golden breaks in a match.
They would proclaim it to be the best match they have ever recorded.

 

[Island Drive]

The only way to increase viewership is with NON pool players.
Their reactions, responses and feedback & viewership numbers will determine MR's direction.
Pool players have tried.
10 ball is a pipe dream at this point in time. 90% of the general public ONLY knows about ''9 ball and 8 ball'' per Shane Tyree/BCA Ex director.
To implement another game/format for the non-pool player, could/would only happen once the ship is sailing.

 

[skogstokig]

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 10 ball hehe.

i used to think that too, but that break has become even more predictable (on a pro level, i still suck at it)

 

[JPB2]

I'm a big proponent of 10Ball replacing 9ball in all world championship events.
I don't believe anyone should win or lose a rack on the break.
I don't feel slop should count at the pro level.
10B solves both of these issues.
I HATE "golden breaks".
MR would love to see someone snap 9 golden breaks in a match.
They would proclaim it to be the best match they have ever recorded.

I am the opposite in that I find 10 ball less interesting than either 9 ball or 8 ball to watch. I’d rather watch one pocket than 9 ball or 8 ball tho. 9 ball is a short rack game- why shouldn’t somebody win or lose a rack on the break? It’s just one rack. In the DCC when it was race to 7 winner break in the 9 ball, how many guys ran a set? I think Efren had a 1.000 match against Immonen. But Mika had a shot or two IIRC. I’d love seeing a 7-9 pack off the opening break. I don’t see it as a problem because I think people overestimate the number of packages that are actually run. If it is such a problem do what they do in 3C in games to 40 - allow an equalizing inning if someone runs a match out.

Yeah, winner break template rack 9 ball on a bar box doesn’t work for pros. But in any short rack game or in 8 ball games are won and lost on the break. The break is a skill shot even though there is more luck on the break than on other shots.

 

[jokrswylde]

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 10 ball hehe.

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 8 ball...
maybe with the continued rise in popularity of chinese and english 8-ball, good ol' American 8 ball will get the respect it deserves.

 

[JPB2]

I always though the "fix" to 9 ball is to play 8 ball...
maybe with the continued rise in popularity of chinese and english 8-ball, good ol' American 8 ball will get the respect it deserves.

Bar table 8 ball is a good game and IMO more interesting to watch than 10 ball. I like watching bar box matches with great players. You have to alternate the break but watching pros solve racks and run out is interesting.

 

[ipoppa33]

With all the back and forth, ideas concepts etc of how to remove the controlled break shot and make this game better for all.

Here's how to make it Simple, and eliminate this aspect of the game.

Nine in the middle, all other balls random placement.

Break Shot....

The head ball will be ANY ball.

On the Break.... Head Ball must be struck First.

Earl Knows, it allows the breaker too much game control.
He's Right!

bm

I agree, it should stop pattern racking. It would also be cool to see players trying to figure out new breaks to try to have a shot on the one after the break.

 

[Black-Balled]

I agree, it should stop pattern racking. It would also be cool to see players trying to figure out new breaks to try to have a shot on the one after the break.

Seriously,?

You acknowledge pattern racking should stop and then applaud the the same thing- figure out new breaks- that caused the problem in the first place?!

 

[Island Drive]

I am the opposite in that I find 10 ball less interesting than either 9 ball or 8 ball to watch. I’d rather watch one pocket than 9 ball or 8 ball tho. 9 ball is a short rack game- why shouldn’t somebody win or lose a rack on the break? It’s just one rack. In the DCC when it was race to 7 winner break in the 9 ball, how many guys ran a set? I think Efren had a 1.000 match against Immonen. But Mika had a shot or two IIRC. I’d love seeing a 7-9 pack off the opening break. I don’t see it as a problem because I think people overestimate the number of packages that are actually run. If it is such a problem do what they do in 3C in games to 40 - allow an equalizing inning if someone runs a match out.

Yeah, winner break template rack 9 ball on a bar box doesn’t work for pros. But in any short rack game or in 8 ball games are won and lost on the break. The break is a skill shot even though there is more luck on the break than on other shots.

Same in golf, you can hit a perfect drive down the middle and end up in a divot.

 

[JPB2]

Same in golf, you can hit a perfect drive down the middle and end up in a divot.

It is a philosophical disagreement I think. In golf the disagreement is highlighted by the difference between match play and stroke play. I like match play and came to appreciate the differences in architecture that favored one or the other after joining a place with a course better suited to match play than stroke play. Pros hate the luck factor on holes like the 17th at TPC. A triple after 70 holes of solid play that costs them big money is no good. Pressing your friend in a Nassau and seeing him play first on a windy day is fun. Winning a skin with a birdie on a quirky hole is fun. Stroke play is better for TV and national opens. But the idea that perfect “fairness” is good isn’t always true in sports and games.

Poker is a really good example too. Until the boom and the advent of capped buy in no- limit, it was rare to find a no limit game that lasted in a public card room. Mason Malmuth wrote about this. Luck and skill need to be balanced so bad players can have winning days. In the long run the good players win, but providers get a chance to win and the casino gets longer term steady rake. Games that were too skillful or simple died - 5 card stud, razz. 7 card stud and holdem were more balanced and better. Hi-lo with no 8 or better qualifier didn’t work. In no limit the good players busted the bad ones too quickly back in the day.

So the philosophy is perfect justice vs some variety, art, luck etc…. To me penal golf architecture is less interesting than risk- reward or strategic type holes.

Perfect justice is only to be found in the next life. Here and now we have to strive for justice in serious endeavors. In sport or gambling luck is always there to some degree. Skill should be rewarded. But not every single shot, game, etc…. Our sports shouldn’t be trials with never ending appeals to achieve perfect fairness.

Chess is there when luck or physical execution is not desired. A spectator game it isn’t tho.

 

[Island Drive]

''Luck and skill need to be balanced so bad players can have winning days.''

Nicely put JPB2....

That ''balance'' in the works is a must to increase play.

No current games in pool have that, unless it's very short races.

My mind compares 9 ball to golf, in so many ways.
Luck, water holes, trees.... being behind and obstacle, an infinite number of variables.
As the day and the cloth/dirt/spectator humidity and all come into play.
Both games change.
But when the Hull waggle is workin', it's just as obvious to me, when a pool players rhythm/speed/walk up drop in.... and they smooooooth out.
bm

 

[MitchAlsup]

Put the 9 balls in an opaque bag and shake the bag,
Pour all 9 balls into the diamond shaped rack en massé
Breaker has to hit the 1-ball first*.
If 1-ball ends up in the center--well that is just bad luck for the breaker.

(*) its a friggen rotation game.

 

[BeiberLvr]

It's simple.

1. Rack all 15 balls with the 9 in the middle

2. The 1 ball is racked in the one of the two spots directly behind the 9. (I assume this would make it harder to play shape on the 1, but I'm not 100%)

3. Balls numbered 10-15 will be considered obstacle balls. Players can use them for combos and caroms or as an added layer of security when playing safe. If any of them are made on the break they are spotted. If any of them are made during a player's turn, they are spotted after their inning provided the player did not win the rack.

 

[Bob Jewett]

It's simple. ....

This is even simpler: On the break the cue ball must be thrown underhand at the rack. No part of the player's body is allowed to cross the head rail or the game is forfeited.

I still would like to see "first shot after the break must be a push-out" in a tournament.

 

[Cuedup]

It's simple.

1. Rack all 15 balls with the 9 in the middle

2. The 1 ball is racked in the one of the two spots directly behind the 9. (I assume this would make it harder to play shape on the 1, but I'm not 100%)

3. Balls numbered 10-15 will be considered obstacle balls. Players can use them for combos and caroms or as an added layer of security when playing safe. If any of them are made on the break they are spotted. If any of them are made during a player's turn, they are spotted after their inning provided the player did not win the rack.

I've played this and it's fun.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

This is even simpler: On the break the cue ball must be thrown underhand at the rack. No part of the player's body is allowed to cross the head rail or the game is forfeited.

I still would like to see "first shot after the break must be a push-out" in a tournament.

That's an interesting idea, worth a try!