fix for rotation games - 15 ball???

jalapus logan

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
OK. People are saying 9 ball is a "broken" game and is no good for the pro level. They are coming with pushout rules, mosconi cup rules and several others as "fixes"

Some folks counter that we should just go to 10 ball. But then some say that even 10 ball is too "easy" given and that SVB and others have "figured" out the break too well.

How about just abandon the short rack entirely and go ahead and rack 'em all up with the one in the front and the 15 in the middle and play rotation 15 ball? Plenty of traffic to manage, plenty of safety play at the start of each game, plenty of opportunities for swings controlling the table.

What do y'all say?
 
One more thought about this. I thought that historically, short rack games were designed to get a faster outcome both for the gambler and the viewer in pro matches on TV. Well, now everyone is complaining and wanting races to 100, or ahead sets or whatever in order to determine who is best and all that.

Surely 15 ball would get the job done???

Note: I'm NOT talking about Rotation the points based game here - just rotation pool in its purest form...
 
jalapus logan said:
OK. People are saying 9 ball is a "broken" game and is no good for the pro level. They are coming with pushout rules, mosconi cup rules and several others as "fixes"

Some folks counter that we should just go to 10 ball. But then some say that even 10 ball is too "easy" given and that SVB and others have "figured" out the break too well.

How about just abandon the short rack entirely and go ahead and rack 'em all up with the one in the front and the 15 in the middle and play rotation 15 ball? Plenty of traffic to manage, plenty of safety play at the start of each game, plenty of opportunities for swings controlling the table.

What do y'all say?
Click to expand...
I say if we're going to go to full-rack rotation, might as well try American Rotation by Joe Tucker.

Note to newbies, Rotation is an American game already. So, Joe Tucker's version apparently is twice as American.
 
Cornerman said:
I say if we're going to go to full-rack rotation, might as well try American Rotation by Joe Tucker.

Note to newbies, Rotation is an American game already. So, Joe Tucker's version apparently is twice as American.
Click to expand...

Though I don't know what Joe's game is, I suppose it would be unpatriotic of me not to try it out...
 
Absolutley no 3 foul rule with a full rack. It would become a tree foul race to X.
I'd watch this for sure. And play it poorly too.
 
The games not broken!

Theres nothing wrong with the game. There just arent enough tournaments so that the guy that got the bad rolls can get his chance for the rolls to go his way next time and theres no real money in the game.

If you lost because everybody beat you with their big break, but you knew that there was a tournament twice a month with 20k added and a few more with small, but worth while money in them, the game would change and we might see American players start to compete on the international level.
 
King T said:
Theres nothing wrong with the game. There just arent enough tournaments so that the guy that got the bad rolls can get his chance for the rolls to go his way next time and theres no real money in the game.

If you lost because everybody beat you with their big break, but you knew that there was a tournament twice a month with 20k added and a few more with small, but worth while money in them, the game would change and we might see American players start to compete on the international level.
Click to expand...

Good points. For what its worth, I am also in the camp that thinks that there is nothing wrong with the game of pool, whatever variant we are talking about. To me, all games have their merits. Hell, prolly even bonus ball, though I'm not particularly interested in playing or watching it...
 
jalapus logan said:
One more thought about this. I thought that historically, short rack games were designed to get a faster outcome both for the gambler and the viewer in pro matches on TV. Well, now everyone is complaining and wanting races to 100, or ahead sets or whatever in order to determine who is best and all that.

Surely 15 ball would get the job done???

Note: I'm NOT talking about Rotation the points based game here - just rotation pool in its purest form...
Click to expand...

The two an three still go in the lower corners..no 61 points.
Throw ball in hand out of the game..must try an get a hit..or
in coming shooter has choice of going to the kitchen or playing
it where it is..no handing the ball back..call shot.
oh..an the 15 must go last..races to...you guessed it..15.
 
All 4 Rotation

There's about a dozen variations to rotation. The 2 that I can think of that would be a show-case for caliber players and still be somewhat fast would be sets to "61" , and 1ball= 1 pt race to 100,(with typical "point balls" 1-3-5-8-10-12-15. For action; pull the 8 or 15 as moneyballs.

I'd love to see this as I think you would draw more 1-pocket and !4.1 players than 9 or 10 ball does now.
 
I love 15 ball rotation. We play one point per ball using ten ball rules. We play to 50 points and it takes every type of shot you can make and then some.

It would be easy enough to play it like 14.1 and leave the last ball on the table. A multi-rack run would be something to see. We rack one in front, two, three in the corners, 15 in the middle. If played like 14.1. the one and two could be placed in the two front positions when the 15 ball is on the table. All other balls are random, no pattern racking. A good break and you might get position on one of the next two balls.

Helluva a good game for those who can play a little.

Pros might play to 100 points for a longer match at their level of skill.

Another variation for 15 ball rotation is 5 ball no count. Means you have to make at least six balls before you score. This would take some serious pool playing skills.
 
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Good thoughts all around. But I was seeking to expand literally on the 9 and 10 ball style games, just use a full rack. Put down the 15 ball and you're the winner. Simple as that.

Not that there is anything wrong with points based rotation, its just a different game. For points based rotation, I kinda like JoeW's suggestion of 5 and no count.
 
What if we took 14.1 and rotation and put them together. Shoot the balls in order. We can do a race to points with a continuous rack to a 1000 or just regular straight pool in a race to any number of balls. Thoughts?
 
I think 15-ball (call shot, no 3-foul rule) on a 10-footer would reduce some of the clutter and be a great game to watch.
 
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