florida spirit tour
- Thread starter amatuer
- Start date
Blackjack said:
Well Dave, I have to say that a lot of the credit goes to the Ladies themselves. They all know the rules, they all know how to compete fairly, and they all know I'd kick their azzes out if they demonstrate any unsportsmanlike conduct
!But seriously, I would like to know why the playing fields are dwindling. And you are right, some players could care less who shows up to play. And here's another plus for letting the TPs play - Carol Clark told me this one - when you do get to play in the WPBA events, you're not as nervous as some other players who have never faced a TP. Seasoning, Baby!!
Barbara
Just my two cents....I have played in the Hunter, McDermott, and NEWT regionals and say bring them all on - it only makes your game stronger in the long run - a couple of thoughts that would cure a couple of issues - do not allow points to the WPBA Touring Professionals - at the end of an event, eliminate them in the accrual of points, this way the yearly event totals are accurate based on regional players only - also, make the qualifier a package deal so the winner of the qualifier receives cash too for travel expenses - that is extremely helpful in the long run.
Barb - as far as the NEWT goes, and the region for that matter, I believe that the seasons kill off the players more than anything - a suggestion for the tour (and I should probably offer this in PM, but figure since you brought it up), the point system should be wiped out yearly and started over, not as it currently is, per event (to explain for the others, the June event from the previous year drops off and is replaced by the results of the June event of this year but the totals never go back to zero at the end of the season).
9balllvr
Barb - as far as the NEWT goes, and the region for that matter, I believe that the seasons kill off the players more than anything - a suggestion for the tour (and I should probably offer this in PM, but figure since you brought it up), the point system should be wiped out yearly and started over, not as it currently is, per event (to explain for the others, the June event from the previous year drops off and is replaced by the results of the June event of this year but the totals never go back to zero at the end of the season).
9balllvr
9balllvr said:
And this is a good point - other tours do this, don't they? When I took over doing the points for Candi because her laptop crapped out and she needed someone do it, she explained to me that it was the way the WPBA did it and if you had a current membership, you should have points.
I'm hoping that when the dust settles with the new WPBA office, they address this situation for all of us. All the RTs should be on the same page when it comes to the points system. I would be more than amicable to do whatever the WPBA says we should do - as long as WE ALL do it.
Barbara
I believe you are the only tour out of the three I mentioned that does not wipe the slate clean at the end of the season. You are correct in that the WPBA holds the points for ten events (if I recall correctly). Just a thought - I know the thought has been tossed around between myself and a running buddy that this is a con to the tour.
Blackjack said:
David,
Point one - the top amateur/semipros do care who shows up if they are in contention for a spot or points/ranking.
Point two - I founded the NW regional tour and kept it going here for 4 years. Near the end, it was basically just me doing all that you listed above. I made sure it was newbie friendly, with door prizes, a second chance tournament (lovingly called the constipation tournament because you had to play like poop in the main tournament to play in it, lol), extra points for 9Ball breaks and runouts, a free entry for getting a friend to buy membership, and a non-member membership which let them try 1-3 events out for $15. Over 4 events and they had to upgrade membership.
We had a photo album of our stops, bake sales, used book sales, raffles, etc. It was more of a family, yet the good players were rewarded too. We had volunteer refs and TD's. We had awesome embroidered shirts with our logo on 3 different styles. We had masseuses and vendors.
Anyway, I know what you mean about your game going down! Many times, I would be putting out door prizes while everyone was practicing. The first time I picked up my cue was to lag for my match. During the week, I was writing articles, picking up donations, figuring out the standings, securing more stops, advertising, updated our web page, or on the phone soliciting donations. I even did a newsletter for awhile.
It's a thankless job, but it kick started the tour and now, it is stronger than ever with Tamre' doing a fantastic job. Too bad her game has gone down now.
Barbara said:
I agree that you need to start over every year. If you look at our tour,
http://nwpatour.com/standings.html, I am currently in the lead. However, if it was left over from last year where I only attended 2 out of the 4 stops, then I would be way down the list.
I will be missing a couple more stops this year due to the IPT. (I have also missed stops because a Regional tour stop and a pro stop coincided on the same weekend, because we had our schedule far in advance of the WPBA's, but that is another issue
)
Barbara said:Well Dawn and I were talking the other day and we broached the subject of league players and how to tap into that resource. I pointed out that the majority of these players do not play on 9' tables, let alone 8 footers, and we always play on the 9 footers. So she suggested varying the entry fee to accommodate the skill levels of the players. Like maybe $30 for the league player, $40 for the Amateur/Semi-Pro player, and $50 for the Pro+ player. And note that she mentioned PRO players. Dawn strongly suggests that I open all my events (even the $500-added ones) to ALL players. She would like to come up to an event, such as Comet, and be able to play because she wants the competition. Of course, all I have to do is remind her who knocked her out of the NJ State event last yearBut I digress.
Eric, I have had Rich S. get in touch with the LOs in that area and distributed flyers to the teams, but I get no response. I have had a couple newbies come in, play, and get so overwhelmed by the competition, I never see them come back!
Barbara
Richie is having a limited/no response because LO are interested in promoting their league and not someone else's.
Dawn's idea of a reduced entry is probably the best. Personally, I'd suggest basing it on a league card and league rating. Most league women are somewhere between a 3 to a 5. These are lower "D" players and would probably never cash on NEWT. Maybe you'd make the entry something like $15. At that price, it is more attractive to them to test their game against better competition. Remember, weekly league dues are $7. These women know they have two chances of cashing; slim and none BUT a lot of them have a competitive nature and want to play. They just don't want to donate $50 to go 2 and out. Once they start winning a match or two, here and there, you can alqays upgrade their status to "amateur/semi-pro".
Eric
Last edited:
Barbara said:
Hi Barbara,
When I first heard a few years ago the WPBA wanted all the WPBA-sanctioned regional tours to use their point system (so all tours were on the same page), I started to freak out because I thought the revolving calendar year thing would be too tough to do, but then I was told we only had to use their points system (i.e, 1st=200 points, 2nd=160 points, etc.), and that we did not have to use the revolving calendar like they do. I felt so relieved!
Although we don't allow Touring Pros on our tour (the Hunter Classics Tour), I think 9balllvr's idea about the points and pros is very interesting.
Melinda
www.hunterclassics.com
Imagine an event where you have to play kim shaw in the first round and then you have to play tiffany nelson on the losers side. It looks like two losses to me. You're out of the money and get much fewer points than you would have. This happened at a spirit tour tournament earlier this year. Imagine this happening at the last tournament of the year (that counts in the year ends point totals.) If it happened to the top ranked semi-pro player in that last tournament they miss the regional tour champions title and therefore they do not get invited to all the wpba events.
Eric. said:
Eric,
The regional tour directors do not determine who is semi-pro or amateur - the semi-pro status is earned based on a couple of different possibilities: 1) you have qualified and played in a WPBA event; or 2) there is a system that gives you points (outside of the tour ranking system) for when you hit a certain place in an event (based on players attending) - it is a detailed process and I never quite understood it, but that is it in a nutshell.
As far as the league players go, a reduced entry would probably get them in the door, also, if they only intend to participate in one event they can pay $15 tour fee for that one event instead of the typical $30, etc. This way, it still helps the tour and allows them to participate. This would also work for the touring professionals - add something to the entry fee, but having them on the tour sure makes it easier for the room owners to add the $$$$, so the tour is already getting a perk in that regard.
9ballvr
amatuer said:
Okay, point taken. I do believe I have the record for drawing Karen Corr in the first round (~7 times) within the period she played in NEWT/JPNEWT.
But please answer my question. What else would you like to see in a Regional Tour other than WPBA Touring Pros? Do you like a 1-day format? How many women participated and when did you start and finish? Please, I'd appreciate the opinion of someone who's played in another RT.
Barbara
one more thought on the league ranking (handicapping if you will) - the regional tours are set-up for advancement in the sport - the tour directors work their hind-ends off already, this would be a nightmare - living in New England and attending some of these "handicapped" events, I will tell you that you that it is not as honest as one would hope or intend. I will leave it at that.9balllvr said:
Barbara said:
The one day format is great in my opinion. It cuts the cost for players traveling to the events. The way you run tournaments, you should be able to get out of a room by 10 pm at the latest. It doesn't appear that the northeast tours have more than 30 players in one event, if it is run efficiently, it shouldnt' take two days. The caliber of play is high enough that if someone is dangling behind, clock them.
9balllvr
Ladies Amateur Tour
Hello all,
Let me say first off thanks to PHM for the good words about the Ladies Tour. Several years ago when the issue came up about a certain level of Lady players that don't have a place to play the Regular Amateur Tour was already in place. It all started out as a way to have somethng for amateur level players to play. This was the concept from the very begining when the KBP Tour tour started in 1997. The same concept has carried over to the Ladies events. I want to give the players a chance to compete and not feel like they get nothing out of it. Its hard with the ranking system we have for players. I have to put people on watch list all the time, exempt people every season, and research all the names that come to the event. Its a lot of work and to keep track to be able to decided who goes at the end of the season. Its not easy. People will sometimes state that someone is a pro just because they are a good player not because of any stats. I take a lot of flak for some of my decisions and sometimes I actually get congrats on some. Sometimes I get both for the same decisions. I do believe in the amateurs or I wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep it going. Gas prices has caused my numbers to drop like everyone else's. Sometimes its expensive to travel.....but I still do it. My Ladies events have had low numbers and I have kept it going. We are in our thrid season with any where from 13 to 20 players showing up. I have dropped the membership fee to $30 per season to help the ladies out to try to get it to build. I want to continue doing these events and have just recently started playing (BTW I don't run the event if I'm playing in it) in the events. I think I'm getting better
For Jake...Yes I let Tracie Hines play but at the time she was not ranked in the top 20 women. She just recently acquired that goal and the tour is proud of her becaue she has played many years with KBP. She will finish out the season as I let all who are being exempt for their qualifications do.
I try to run a good tour. The tour has produced many players that has gone on to be in the pro circuit and we are proud of all of them. I hope to continue this venture and help the amateurs have a good playing field along with producing top players to go on to their dream of being a pro.
As for the Spirit Tour, I wish them well in their venture in the pool industry.
For the WPBA, I would love to have a qualifier, which would only have amateurs in it but was told last season that the Spirit Tour was the only tour allowed to do the qualifiers in my area. I wish you well and hope to be able to send you players that out grow me.
Kay Higgins
Visit our website at www.kbpbilliardtour.com for more information or feel free to email me at admin@kbpbilliardtour.com
poolhall maven said:
Hello all,
Let me say first off thanks to PHM for the good words about the Ladies Tour. Several years ago when the issue came up about a certain level of Lady players that don't have a place to play the Regular Amateur Tour was already in place. It all started out as a way to have somethng for amateur level players to play. This was the concept from the very begining when the KBP Tour tour started in 1997. The same concept has carried over to the Ladies events. I want to give the players a chance to compete and not feel like they get nothing out of it. Its hard with the ranking system we have for players. I have to put people on watch list all the time, exempt people every season, and research all the names that come to the event. Its a lot of work and to keep track to be able to decided who goes at the end of the season. Its not easy. People will sometimes state that someone is a pro just because they are a good player not because of any stats. I take a lot of flak for some of my decisions and sometimes I actually get congrats on some. Sometimes I get both for the same decisions. I do believe in the amateurs or I wouldn't be fighting so hard to keep it going. Gas prices has caused my numbers to drop like everyone else's. Sometimes its expensive to travel.....but I still do it. My Ladies events have had low numbers and I have kept it going. We are in our thrid season with any where from 13 to 20 players showing up. I have dropped the membership fee to $30 per season to help the ladies out to try to get it to build. I want to continue doing these events and have just recently started playing (BTW I don't run the event if I'm playing in it) in the events. I think I'm getting better
For Jake...Yes I let Tracie Hines play but at the time she was not ranked in the top 20 women. She just recently acquired that goal and the tour is proud of her becaue she has played many years with KBP. She will finish out the season as I let all who are being exempt for their qualifications do.
I try to run a good tour. The tour has produced many players that has gone on to be in the pro circuit and we are proud of all of them. I hope to continue this venture and help the amateurs have a good playing field along with producing top players to go on to their dream of being a pro.
As for the Spirit Tour, I wish them well in their venture in the pool industry.
For the WPBA, I would love to have a qualifier, which would only have amateurs in it but was told last season that the Spirit Tour was the only tour allowed to do the qualifiers in my area. I wish you well and hope to be able to send you players that out grow me.
Kay Higgins
Visit our website at www.kbpbilliardtour.com for more information or feel free to email me at admin@kbpbilliardtour.com
9balllvr said:
Sorry GF, we all have to play even. There is absolutely no way an RT can go handicapped. After all, it's all about the quality.
But I've noted the things you and BlackJack have said for my questionnaire. Good stuff!!
Barbara~~~and you're never getting the 8 from me... NEVER!!!
Barbara said:Sorry GF, we all have to play even. There is absolutely no way an RT can go handicapped. After all, it's all about the quality.
But I've noted the things you and BlackJack have said for my questionnaire. Good stuff!!
Barbara~~~and you're never getting the 8 from me... NEVER!!!
this was not my thought - I was noting it as something that should not happen in regional tour events and the thought behind that reason. ok, this has really helped my day at work zoom by, so I am out of here for a bit - no bad names behind my back Barb
can't trust these darned northerners.Barbara said:
Barbara,
I can run 64 players with 14 tables, begining at 1:30 pm and be done by 2 am. The ladies are usually done with 13 to 20 women by around 7 pm. depending on how much fun we are having. And we do try to have a lot of fun. They are here to work on their game so I want them to be relaxed. All the players I have love the one day format. They can go home or go do whatever they want to or just hang out without having to worry about it. Some like to go on home because they have households to run or children to take care of and some like it because its a break for them and they don't have to worry about another day. They are done and have had fun. This is just my opinion and what I get from the feed back from the players.
Example: I missed a shot and stated somthing to the fact that I guess I should have used the bridge. One of the other players looked at me and said well duh Kay when did you figure that one out and we laughed As I told her when I missed the ball. We were having a blast joking and picking. The players are having a chance to really work on their game without the pressure of facing someone they know they are not at the level to beat......yet. But keep coming to my events and get the practice you need with different players and your game gets better. The women once they really get their confidence and game together they then start coming to the Regular event that have all the men playing (its open to men and women) and try their hand at that level. Its good for their game and the fact they really learn how to play the table and not the opponent.
Its just my opinion.
Kay
Barbara said:Sorry GF, we all have to play even. There is absolutely no way an RT can go handicapped. After all, it's all about the quality.
But I've noted the things you and BlackJack have said for my questionnaire. Good stuff!!
Barbara~~~and you're never getting the 8 from me... NEVER!!!
There is no way I could handicap the events I run. Too many unknown factors when you deal with so many different people. You would end up handicaping someone wrong because you don't really know how they play when they sign up. I had thought about it and went over seveal scenarios on it but could not find a solution.
Kay