florida spirit tour

[poolhall maven]

I guess what needs to be decided is where each individual's pool game is going. Do we aspire to be a wpba player? If so then we must wade through the other aspiring players and pros and keep at it on the spirt tour or do we want to want to play competitive pool with no other lofty goals but, to win that day. I think each Florida tour is filling a need for it's lady players--lets not forget that Debbie Schodt was number 1 on the KBP tour last year so the competition is not too shabby -- it's just are aspirations of being a wpba player are long gone.
Amatuer, come join us a strokers in Palm Harbor July 8--I'm sure we have met before!
PHM

 

[KBP]

Thanks for your response, especially at 5:52 in the morning. Yes, that is the pat answer. As I said before I have been following this tour for many years and in my opinion it is dying. The room owners become a lot more reluctant to hold events with a small number of entries, because it costs them a lot of money to hold the event. The amount of women that play for the joy of it or the joy of being crushed by great players is very limited.

The cost to the pool room owner is a good bit for the Spirit tour. I have approximately 10 to 11 events a year for the amateur ladies and the rooms love it even with a small number because they don't have to put out as much money and the spectators are still there to see who is up and coming. The women that play on the Amateur Tour are playing it for the joy, for the learning and the competition. I am hoping that some of these ladies will go on to further themselves in the open and pro events like the men have on the Amateur Tour. I had to let 4 go last year due to their qualifications and looks like even more than that will go at the end of this year. With the amateur competitive play they are able to work on their game and get better instead of being two and out. Wish you would come and watch at least once.
Kay

 

[rackmsuckr]

Okay, point taken. I do believe I have the record for drawing Karen Corr in the first round (~7 times) within the period she played in NEWT/JPNEWT.

But please answer my question. What else would you like to see in a Regional Tour other than WPBA Touring Pros? Do you like a 1-day format? How many women participated and when did you start and finish? Please, I'd appreciate the opinion of someone who's played in another RT.

Barbara

Road trips are the fun part of a tour! A bunch of us travel together to cut down on expenses and have a gals only weekend...no kids, no spouses.

A one day event also makes it tough for the room owners. IMO, I would not like to start at 1:30 (why so late?) and end at 2 am, either as a player or a room owner. Most room owners want their Saturday night business for the paying customers. They also want the room semi-filled both days. So we brought the other women back for a 2nd chance or consolation tournament on Sunday. $1 from each of the regular tournament's entry fees were added, and then it's a $10 entry fee. Usually get 5-10 gals back then.

 

[jjinfla]

Since all LO have the name and address and hopefully e-mail addresses of all the players who play in their tournaments I would suggest that they should send a letter to the players who have stopped playing and ask them why they don't play anymore. And what it would take to bring them back.

I would also suggest to LO that they make sure that they post the standings of every player. You would be surprised at how important that is to a player. In other words where a player ranks among all the other players in that particular tour. Many players know they are not as good as the top 10% and don't care. All they care about is who they are better than. Even if it is only a half dozen or so. And what they have to do to move up a few postitions in the standings.

Also, you can have a sliding entry fee. Maybe $10 to $50 depending on where the person is in the points list. After all, everyone is just playing for the fun of it, right? So why should someone who has absolutely no chance of winning a match want to pay a top fee?

I think the main reason for me not playing anymore is I got bored and too much driving for me. Oh, and I never did receive my membership card or see any points list.

But as long as a tour is drawing 48 members then I would think it is successful. The players are happy and the LO is making money. I hope.

Jake

 

[Eric.]

Eric,

The regional tour directors do not determine who is semi-pro or amateur - the semi-pro status is earned based on a couple of different possibilities: 1) you have qualified and played in a WPBA event; or 2) there is a system that gives you points (outside of the tour ranking system) for when you hit a certain place in an event (based on players attending) - it is a detailed process and I never quite understood it, but that is it in a nutshell.

As far as the league players go, a reduced entry would probably get them in the door, also, if they only intend to participate in one event they can pay $15 tour fee for that one event instead of the typical $30, etc. This way, it still helps the tour and allows them to participate. This would also work for the touring professionals - add something to the entry fee, but having them on the tour sure makes it easier for the room owners to add the $$$$, so the tour is already getting a perk in that regard.

9ballvr

9ballvr,

Thanks for clearing up the semi-pro thing.

The idea I was trying to push is that for the league players that want to try out the better competition, this might make it more of a "flyer" for them. If you waive the membership fee and charge a reduced entry, you might get more players to take a stab at it. Let's face it, while there are some ok League players, there is a slim chance the majority of them will cash, so they are not "stealing" the prize fund. Their entry fee is a pure donation. You can make a stipulation that if you play under a league card, you're not eligible for points or qualifyers. Only "full" members are eligible for the Q. I think it has potential. More $ in the prize fund and more new players, where 1 or 2 might become regular "full" tour members.


Eric

 

[Barbara]

If you waive the membership fee and charge a reduced entry, you might get more players to take a stab at it.

Eric

Dem's fightin' words! Taking in memberships is the only way I can hope to reduce my costs! One of these years I might break even!

To earn SPPs in my tour, you must finish in the top-half of the field, I don't go by chart size. So if I'm using a 32-player chart and there are 24 girls, those finishing 9th/12th and better get awarded SPPs.

Here's the breakdown of the Semi-Pro Points (SPP) system:

(A/S = Amatuer/Semi-Pro only, O = Open)

Chart size SPP awarded
16 A/S..........1
16 O.............2
32 A/S..........3
32 O.............4
64 A/S..........5
64 O.............6
128 A/S........7
128 O...........8

Once a player acquires 18 SPPs, she can upgrade to Semi-Pro status. When a player wins a Qualifier in an event, they automatically upgrade to Semi-Pro if they were previously an amateur.

Barbara

 

[Eric.]

Dem's fightin' words! Taking in memberships is the only way I can hope to reduce my costs! One of these years I might break even!
Barbara

Sorry, I forgot the contribution (non-tax deductible) that you make!

OK, on second thought, charge them the membership


Eric >no checks

 

[jay helfert]

Go Mingster!

Just want to acknowledge Ming Ng for her fine showing in the recent Florida event with all those WPBA regulars. Ming has been off the tour for over two years and recently had shoulder surgery for a severe dislocation.

I'm glad to see she is back to playing and competitive once again. Years ago she used to dominate that tour, and it was a good training ground for playing the WPBA. Congrats Ming!

 

[cuechick]

It is a hard choice for any tour, it makes sense on one level and is probably good for the room owner (though that is debatable, if 50 or more women showed up, that would probably add more to their revenues than a few spectators) but overall it does hurt the tour. If I lived in the city, I would not hesitate to play; but it makes no sense for me to spend the additional $200 or $300 to travel there.
It becomes all about the luck of the draw and the tournament is like a field of landminds. With that many pros playing it is too easy to draw one on either side of the board.
Also, as another note, mandatory membership fees makes no sense to me either. There are women who may be able to make 1 or 2 events, to pay an additonal $65, is really the final straw. A few Atlanta women and I discussed traveling to the Jacksonville event, the only Spirit Tour Stop that was close enough to Atlanta but the mandatory membership was just too much. (Then I broke my arm but that is another story!)

I really think this should be optional, if you opt out, you get no points. This was what SEAL did and I think it worked well, Florida is a very large state and with events spread out that much and with gas as it is this needs to be considered, IMO

 

[akaTrigger]

It is a hard choice for any tour, it makes sense on one level and is probably good for the room owner (though that is debatable, if 50 or more women showed up, that would probably add more to their revenues than a few spectators) but overall it does hurt the tour. If I lived in the city, I would not hesitate to play; but it makes no sense for me to spend the additional $200 or $300 to travel there.
It becomes all about the luck of the draw and the tournament is like a field of landminds. With that many pros playing it is too easy to draw one on either side of the board.
Also, as another note, mandatory membership fees makes no sense to me either. There are women who may be able to make 1 or 2 events, to pay an additonal $65, is really the final straw. A few Atlanta women and I discussed traveling to the Jacksonville event, the only Spirit Tour Stop that was close enough to Atlanta but the mandatory membership was just too much. (Then I broke my arm but that is another story!)

I really think this should be optional, if you opt out, you get no points. This was what SEAL did and I think it worked well, Florida is a very large state and with events spread out that much and with gas as it is this needs to be considered, IMO

Or lower the required membership fee to make it more affordable?

Melinda

 

[Barbara]

Also, as another note, mandatory membership fees makes no sense to me either. There are women who may be able to make 1 or 2 events, to pay an additonal $65, is really the final straw. A few Atlanta women and I discussed traveling to the Jacksonville event, the only Spirit Tour Stop that was close enough to Atlanta but the mandatory membership was just too much. (Then I broke my arm but that is another story!)

Lara,

Taking in memberships is the only way I can recoup my expenses of running a tour, and I'm still not breaking even. The WPBA dictates that I have to pay out 100% of the prize fund, I cannot withhold a cent for myself or anything else. If it weren't for the memberships, I wouldn't be doing this at all.

Barbara

 

[Barbara]

Or lower the required membership fee to make it more affordable?

Melinda

Melinda,

Next year I'm going to have a partial membership since I do see that there are some women that only come out to play when I have an event close to them. Maybe a 2-event max for half the regular membership price.

Barbara

 

[poolhall maven]

We used to have a one time only fee for those ladies (for whatever reason)perhaps those who wanted to compete in their city but, didnt plan on traveling to other events. Or for those who wanted to get their feet wet and see if playing on the tour was their cup of tea. it was $50 entry + $20 (one time only) That way you would make extra money for your expenses and the ladies don't have to pay the membership fee.
Believe me I understand what a hard, expensive, time consuming, thankless job tour directing is--more power to ya!
phm

 

[jjinfla]

The Spirit Tour will be in St Augustine July 22-23 at the beautiful Anastasia Billiard Room. There is a nice motel right down the street from the old fort that is surprisingly cheap - around $50 the last time I was there and if you get knocked out of the tournament you can visit the old city. Or go to the lighthouse and walk all the way up to the top of it. The walk from the parking lot to the base of the lighthouse is enough for me.

Jake

 

[cuechick]

Hey Barbara,
I understand but if you has a reduced rate for women that did not want to join and got more women to play, women that would not otherwise play at all, that only helps you no?
I do not know if the Spirit tours operates the same way wit their membership fees? But $65 is pretty high (the highest I have seen anyway for a mandatory fee) and I think some kind of altenative to entice more players, is a good idea.

I also think charging a higher entry to touring pros is also a good idea, as mentioned by someone else. I know some handicapp tours charge more based on skill level.

 

[Barbara]

Hey Barbara,
I understand but if you has a reduced rate for women that did not want to join and got more women to play, women that would not otherwise play at all, that only helps you no?
I do not know if the Spirit tours operates the same way wit their membership fees? But $65 is pretty high (the highest I have seen anyway for a mandatory fee) and I think some kind of altenative to entice more players, is a good idea.

I also think charging a higher entry to touring pros is also a good idea, as mentioned by someone else. I know some handicapp tours charge more based on skill level.

Hey Lara,

For $30 a year, my tour is a good bang for the buck, considering I hold 3 State Championships - with at least them all being Q's into the US Open (some just one, NY being a double, I'm working... working on the NJ event still!!) - you can't damn me for asking for a full membership to help offset my expenses! I still lose at least $1000 a year, but I DON'T CARE!! That's not what matters!!

I'm raising my rates next year maybe to at least $40. I have to be the cheapest Tour membership there is right now, and I offer at least 8 events, ALL QUALIFIERS, to boot.

And yeah, Charging different levels of entry fees for different levels of players would be a good thing to get these league players to try their stuff for the "next level".

Hey!! You should come back and play! Last time I saw you was at Lancaster at Diamond Billiards!! Unfortunately, Coby's room is out of business, but I have found a bunch of new rooms!! You should come back and visit!!

Barbara

 

[alinco]

Hi All,

This is Andy from the Tiger Planet Pool Tour in Virginia/Maryland area. We've wrestled with most of the points brought up above for the past 6 years.

We generally get around 20 players for our Women's 9 ball events. It seems like the beginning of our season (Feb and Mar) have around 30 and the number drops to 16 during the summer months.

We don't exclude any pros and usually get a couple each event though not in the top 20 yet We have many aspiring pros that welcome the competition. We pay out 3/8 of the field which helps keep most players coming back and probably limits participation from higher ranked pros.

We've also started an 8 ball amateur tour which helps keep players involved that were debating dropping out of the tougher 9 ball events.

The other thing we did about 4 years ago was to switch to a Sunday only Women's event. This really helped with numbers. Lower costs for players even though many come Saturday evening. Easier for the Open division to get to a manageable size using all of the tables on Saturday. We start at 11:00 am Sunday with races to 7 on winner's side and 5 on 1-loss. A 24 player event will finish around 11 pm. We also switched to single set final to 9 which helps get done before the room might close.

During the 6 years, the level of play has gone up tremendously. I'd say about 3 balls easily.

We have a $30 year membership with $15 guest fee for a single event.

Andy

 

[akaTrigger]

Hey Lara,

For $30 a year, my tour is a good bang for the buck, considering I hold 3 State Championships - with at least them all being Q's into the US Open (some just one, NY being a double, I'm working... working on the NJ event still!!) - you can't damn me for asking for a full membership to help offset my expenses! I still lose at least $1000 a year, but I DON'T CARE!! That's not what matters!!

I'm raising my rates next year maybe to at least $40. I have to be the cheapest Tour membership there is right now, and I offer at least 8 events, ALL QUALIFIERS, to boot.

And yeah, Charging different levels of entry fees for different levels of players would be a good thing to get these league players to try their stuff for the "next level".

Barbara

Barbara, if you raise the membership fee, will less people show up? I'm only asking because even though $10 is not that much more, we (the hunter tour) have the low fees and yet people still complain about the cost. Our fees are: $20 membersip fee and $30 entry fee (which includes a $5 admin fee). So, I was just curious what you thought.

Melinda
www.hunterclassics.com

 

[akaTrigger]

Hi All,

This is Andy from the Tiger Planet Pool Tour in Virginia/Maryland area. We've wrestled with most of the points brought up above for the past 6 years.

We generally get around 20 players for our Women's 9 ball events. It seems like the beginning of our season (Feb and Mar) have around 30 and the number drops to 16 during the summer months.

We don't exclude any pros and usually get a couple each event though not in the top 20 yet We have many aspiring pros that welcome the competition. We pay out 3/8 of the field which helps keep most players coming back and probably limits participation from higher ranked pros.

We've also started an 8 ball amateur tour which helps keep players involved that were debating dropping out of the tougher 9 ball events.

The other thing we did about 4 years ago was to switch to a Sunday only Women's event. This really helped with numbers. Lower costs for players even though many come Saturday evening. Easier for the Open division to get to a manageable size using all of the tables on Saturday. We start at 11:00 am Sunday with races to 7 on winner's side and 5 on 1-loss. A 24 player event will finish around 11 pm. We also switched to single set final to 9 which helps get done before the room might close.

During the 6 years, the level of play has gone up tremendously. I'd say about 3 balls easily.

We have a $30 year membership with $15 guest fee for a single event.

Andy

I haven't played in your tour, so I was wondering about the women's event on Sunday. Is it because you have a men's event on Saturday and Sunday?

We have a tour like that in Texas and it's so difficult to get home on a Sunday night and back to work Monday morning when I live so far from the event (well, this only matters if I place well).

What time does the women's event start on Sunday morning?

Melinda

 

[9balllvr]

Just a side note....we recently had an event here in Connecticut for the McDermott Tour and had the $15 one-time option for that event (tour fee) and a $50 entry and it brought out a few more ladies that wouldn't normally play (leaguers) - I think the membership fees deter players if they only intend to play on the tour once or twice. If you were a local gal wanting to just try it out, you have the entry+tour fee+WPBA fee (if you are going to play, might as well). So, I stick by the idea that the one-timers pay a $15 membership fee - they can play as many events as they want without points accruing and each event they play, the pay $15 until they decide to join the tour - at that time, they pay the yearly dues. I have seen a couple of tours like that up here and it works and it brings players/tour revenue that you wouldn't have.

Barb, I am going to beat a dead dog, but I really believe you will pick up more women if you kill the current point accrual system you use - as a new comer, I can say for me, it is almost impossible to catch up with the tour members that have been there a while unless I snapped off high in every event. This alone would make me travel to another regional to rank higher.

It is late and I am beginning to repeat myself...so goodnight.