Follow Thru Debate
- Thread starter cuetechasaurus
- Start date
caedos said:I find that even double hits can be avoided (draw, follow, or side) with the exact same stroke. What I modify is the cue position in that stroke by gripping closer to the tip end. As long as I know the tip is dropping as it goes to contact (pendulum strokes do this) because I'll be in front of perpendicular at contact with the cue-ball, I'm fine. When the ball's are less than about a quarter of an inch I'll also need to judge how far into my chest the grip hand will go (practice, practice, practice) as it hits Finish at different Speeds. If the balls are too close for this then the contact point is probably too close to change much, especially factoring in throw when moving into cut angles with the cue; then I'm back to a normal stroke at a half-ball hit or thinner.
So even on very close shots, you still use the same stroke and allow your stroke to come to it's natural finish?????????????
AMAZING...SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
pooltchr said:So even on very close shots, you still use the same stroke and allow your stroke to come to it's natural finish?????????????
AMAZING...SIMPLY AMAZING!!!
Why stick to something that could well cost a game, or even a match? I say *ADAPT* ... Sorry for shouting...
By the way, if it suits you to have just one stroke, so be it... As for me, I have many different ones, even if some tell me I go for shots that are too tough... With time, I'll get there....
Cheers!
Flex
caedos said:I find that even double hits can be avoided (draw, follow, or side) with the exact same stroke. What I modify is the cue position in that stroke by gripping closer to the tip end. As long as I know the tip is dropping as it goes to contact (pendulum strokes do this) because I'll be in front of perpendicular at contact with the cue-ball, I'm fine. When the ball's are less than about a quarter of an inch I'll also need to judge how far into my chest the grip hand will go (practice, practice, practice) as it hits Finish at different Speeds. If the balls are too close for this then the contact point is probably too close to change much, especially factoring in throw when moving into cut angles with the cue; then I'm back to a normal stroke at a half-ball hit or thinner.
I guess your just fooling around, right? I have many strokes that I use depending on what I need to achieve. In all cases, I follow through. Very few shots you are not able to do so because of a double hit and there is no way to avoid it.
Follow through..
Granted most shots require the same stroke. Nothing like repeatability of success. However a very good stroke is one that follows through as pooltchr stated.
Different strokes are key however when a shot demands that extra position that otherwise would be considered impossible;
1. CB will scratch in the side or may hit another ball when you do not want it to. In effect when you want to stretch a CB follow into the straightest forward path possible, you must roll the CB. No bounce, just a very soft roll. This requires a little different stroke than normal and a very intentional one.
2. You need to stun the CB and kill, one of the best ways is to grip a little tighter. Different stroke again.
3. You need to cut a ball but require to create an angle off the rail that is not natural even with extreme English. Using BHE assists this shot.
4. You need excessive draw on an angle shot to the corner pocket and have the CB miss the side pocket and come straight back down table off the rail because obstructive balls on the table will not allow any other position shot. Your stroke is now a dig stroke with even greater than normal follow through. It is the feel of the follow through that determines were on the side rail you intend to hit before the ball comes straight down the table.
4. You need to move the CB so that it hooks and goes straight into the rail with lots of running or counter English. You have to jack up on this shot just a little and extend the follow through more than usual.
5. ...
Yes I agree that most the time the same stroke is used however without an artillery of other very useful strokes your game becomes limited.
Granted most shots require the same stroke. Nothing like repeatability of success. However a very good stroke is one that follows through as pooltchr stated.
Different strokes are key however when a shot demands that extra position that otherwise would be considered impossible;
1. CB will scratch in the side or may hit another ball when you do not want it to. In effect when you want to stretch a CB follow into the straightest forward path possible, you must roll the CB. No bounce, just a very soft roll. This requires a little different stroke than normal and a very intentional one.
2. You need to stun the CB and kill, one of the best ways is to grip a little tighter. Different stroke again.
3. You need to cut a ball but require to create an angle off the rail that is not natural even with extreme English. Using BHE assists this shot.
4. You need excessive draw on an angle shot to the corner pocket and have the CB miss the side pocket and come straight back down table off the rail because obstructive balls on the table will not allow any other position shot. Your stroke is now a dig stroke with even greater than normal follow through. It is the feel of the follow through that determines were on the side rail you intend to hit before the ball comes straight down the table.
4. You need to move the CB so that it hooks and goes straight into the rail with lots of running or counter English. You have to jack up on this shot just a little and extend the follow through more than usual.
5. ...
Yes I agree that most the time the same stroke is used however without an artillery of other very useful strokes your game becomes limited.
There is a "nip shot" where you follow through very little.
Then a long draw shot (large distance between CB and OB) where you want a lot of follow through.
Then a "hook shot" where you want a *lot* of follow through - send the tip of your cue through the far wall if possible!
Then a double hit (CB close to OB) where you have followed through too much and hit the CB twice.
And a force follow shot which needs a lot of follow through.
So depending one situation, the amount of follow through needed may vary.
Then a long draw shot (large distance between CB and OB) where you want a lot of follow through.
Then a "hook shot" where you want a *lot* of follow through - send the tip of your cue through the far wall if possible!
Then a double hit (CB close to OB) where you have followed through too much and hit the CB twice.
And a force follow shot which needs a lot of follow through.
So depending one situation, the amount of follow through needed may vary.
zeeder said:
Your right, though only a few players are capable of this though.
I think there might be some confusion in this thread about what was meant which is why I'm now confused.
Once contact has been made with the CB, nothing else can be changed. How we stoke will change the effects of the CB though. And I believe this is what Billy Bob is saying which is correct. The stroke does change for specific effects on the CB.
It is how we drive the CB that gives us the needed draw. The one example I gave when drawing a CB on a corner pocket cut shot and the CB hits the side rail and shoots down table is a feel shot. Based on table playing conditions, that the player is sensitive to, and then how much drive to the CB allows the player to determine how to not only avoid the side pocket scratch but also what part of the side rail the CB will hit.
Contrary to what many think, if you dig the CB into the felt on a shot, you will get more action because there REALLY is greater contact duration. It is physics and it happens. The best example of this is a masse shot. The CB is held steady for a longer period of time while the tip is driving through it. These are stroke shots that vary from the normal one.
This is why the correct method to draw the cue ball is not by simply lowering the tip, but also raising the back hand very slightly. Doing this makes the draw shot effortless and the distance more manageable. Lowering the tip only will produce a draw but will also resiult in the CB skidding at times making the distance the CB returns unpredictable. Most of the time the draw shot is a dig shot.
It is how we drive the CB that gives us the needed draw. The one example I gave when drawing a CB on a corner pocket cut shot and the CB hits the side rail and shoots down table is a feel shot. Based on table playing conditions, that the player is sensitive to, and then how much drive to the CB allows the player to determine how to not only avoid the side pocket scratch but also what part of the side rail the CB will hit.
Contrary to what many think, if you dig the CB into the felt on a shot, you will get more action because there REALLY is greater contact duration. It is physics and it happens. The best example of this is a masse shot. The CB is held steady for a longer period of time while the tip is driving through it. These are stroke shots that vary from the normal one.
This is why the correct method to draw the cue ball is not by simply lowering the tip, but also raising the back hand very slightly. Doing this makes the draw shot effortless and the distance more manageable. Lowering the tip only will produce a draw but will also resiult in the CB skidding at times making the distance the CB returns unpredictable. Most of the time the draw shot is a dig shot.
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Wouldn't that be like saying Nolan Ryan did not have to touch the ground with his pitching hand after the ball was gone?randyg said:
The follow-thru I strive for is my grip hand almost touching my shoulder.
The tip ending up anywhere is incidental.
I'd have to agree and disagree with what you said. I agree that you do get more draw action when hitting the CB with an elevated back hand, but I think this has little to do with greater contact duration. In fact, I doubt there is any significant change in contact time between a jacked up cue and a flat cue. If anything, you may actually have a shorter contact time with the jacked up case, but i'm not sure.pete lafond said:
The reason why a jacked up cue has more draw action is because you are constantly decreasing the contact angle between the cue stick and the surface of the CB as you stroke through the CB, whereas in the level cue case the contact angle is more uniform throughout the stroke. For the level cue, the contact angle is more or less the same the moment you strike the CB to when the CB leaves the tip of the cue. However, for the jacked up case, the beginning and final angles would be different, since you cannot drive the CB past the surface of the felt. The moment the CB leaves the tip of the cue, the contact angle would approach 0 degrees. This shallower angle is what gives the CB greater spin.
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jsp said:
Yes you are correct except raising your back hand slightly means that you hit the CB higher on a draw shot. More of the CB's mass is pushed into the cloth. You are in effect hitting down and through it. This is a developed stroke that you feel the drag as you dig down on it. The difference is actually felt in your back hand as you make contact with the CB. Remember what I said about the masse shot. The CB is idle for a moment longer than a normal shot. This is what is being created.
Another not understood (I do not mean by you) concept is that high english on the cue ball puts a downward force on the felt. It just does. This is why just applying english on a CB without a change in the back hand limits the players capability.
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