Foul or No Foul?

jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
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Omar

Omar

AzB Silver Member
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Is it possible to get the 10 ball moving in that direction by hitting the 8 first? I would say foul.
 
Maniac

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
It looks to me like the cue ball caromed off the 15 ball slightly before hitting the 8 ball into the corner pocket. But that's just my opinion, and I'm basing that on the slightly forward direction the 15 ball is travelling. I would think that this is a foul, but who has sharp enough eyes to pick this up if/when it happened? I don't!

Maniac
 
Unknown

Unknown

just another banger
Silver Member
im going to have to say foul, if the 8 was contacted first it should not have hit both balls. my guess would be that the 15 was contacted first the cue ball caromed the 8 in than kicked the 10 to its final position. had it hit the 10 first the 10 would not have ended up where it did.

edit. im too slow at posting lol
 
RBLilly

RBLilly

AzB Silver Member
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Foul?

Without being there and actually seeing it that is a hard call. From your diagram though it looks like there would have been no way to pocket the 8 without hitting one of the opponents balls before striking the 8. MMMMMM
I might have played safe in this instance and waited for another shot on the 8. Just my thoughts though. What did the ref wind up calling? Was it a win or a loss?
 
stick8

stick8

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
foul

If you make the 8 ball clean the 10 ball never moves!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: stick
 
chunchin

chunchin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is a foul based on your diagram. I guess the cue ball didn't move a bit. If the cue ball with strong draw hit the eight first, then the 15 , and finally the 10. The 10 ball would not move as much as the 15 ball. Because the cue
ball after hitting the 8 hit the 15 dead on, there is a little
energy left on the cue ball to transfer to the 10. If it is a legal shot, the 10 wouldn't move as much as the 15.
 
metal5d

metal5d

Pool Player
Silver Member
stick8 said:
If you make the 8 ball clean the 10 ball never moves!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: stick
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking as well. If you hit the eight ball clean only the 15 ball should move.
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This was taken from rack 12 of the Reyes vs. Morris match. Efren tried to shoot the 8, and the ref correctly called a foul...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snJVsmUY3CA
(video has no sound)

Most of you guys figured it out. If the 10 moves at all, then it would definitely not be a good hit. Slow-mo confirmed that the 15 ball was hit before the 8 ball. Also, by look at the trajectory of the 10, you can determine if the 10 was hit first or the 15.

This just shows that you don't need slow-mo replays to determine a foul, given you know exactly what to look for. I wonder if the ref called the foul based on the movement of the 10.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is actually a very easy one to call. The 10-ball is infront of the 8-ball. If it moves, the shot is a foul. The 15-ball only complicates the matter but only slightly. If the 8-ball is contacted first, the cue-ball will carom off the 15-ball and follow away from the 10-ball (even if top or draw is used). Hence, the 10-ball still should not move. The only way the 10-ball can be struck last is if the 15-ball is struck first and proceeds to carom off the other two balls.

These rules of physics (applied to billiards) are actually gone over in great detail at BCA Referee training sessions so that a referee can examine the outcome of the shot and quickly determine if it was a good hit or not. At least, this is what I've been told by a BCA referee and it's helped me out a great deal when examining close-hits.
 
Jude Rosenstock

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jsp said:
This was taken from rack 12 of the Reyes vs. Morris match. Efren tried to shoot the 8, and the ref correctly called a foul...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snJVsmUY3CA
(video has no sound)

Most of you guys figured it out. If the 10 moves at all, then it would definitely not be a good hit. Slow-mo confirmed that the 15 ball was hit before the 8 ball. Also, by look at the trajectory of the 10, you can determine if the 10 was hit first or the 15.

This just shows that you don't need slow-mo replays to determine a foul, given you know exactly what to look for. I wonder if the ref called the foul based on the movement of the 10.
Click to expand...

lol, wow. I just saw this after I made my last post. This is EXACTLY what I would thought would happen if the 15 were contacted first.
 
M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This one is definitely a foul. If you hit the eight first the cue ball would never hit the 10.

There was another questionable foul where Efren kicked at a ball almost exactly like Manalo's shot in the other tournament.
 
J

Jal

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
chunchin said:
It is a foul based on your diagram. I guess the cue ball didn't move a bit. If the cue ball with strong draw hit the eight first, then the 15 , and finally the 10. The 10 ball would not move as much as the 15 ball. Because the cue
ball after hitting the 8 hit the 15 dead on, there is a little
energy left on the cue ball to transfer to the 10. If it is a legal shot, the 10 wouldn't move as much as the 15.
Click to expand...
I think you're right that it is possible for the cueball to bump the 10 a little after a legal hit. Inside (left) english might do it with an elevated butt, and it would help if some follow develops too. But the 10 would hardly move at all.

Jim
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
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Jude Rosenstock said:
... These rules of physics (applied to billiards) are actually gone over in great detail at BCA Referee training sessions so that a referee can examine the outcome of the shot and quickly determine if it was a good hit or not. At least, this is what I've been told by a BCA referee and it's helped me out a great deal when examining close-hits.
Click to expand...
Since I was the goer-overer for at least some of the referee training sessions, I can assure you that this sort of thing was covered. However, not all people (or referees) can quickly decide prior to the player getting the shot off what sort of movement will surely be a foul and what sort would be a good hit.

For example, in the shot illustrated where the cue ball was supposed to pass through the hole to hit the farthest ball first, suppose that ball had not been the eight but rather a stripe or solid, and the two balls in front had been one of each. Which way would the cue ball go on a good hit or a bad hit? Would the other balls give a clue?

I happened to be in the audience when Efren had the shot, and I thought he had to kick off the end cushion for a hit. It sure didn't look like he had room to go through the gap.
 
D

Dhakala

Banned
No foul. Cue hits 8, then 15, then 10. Must have been a pretty hard shot to move both such distances. Probably had low-left on it.
 
ribdoner

ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
FOUL...based on where the 10 came to rest.

Best chance of making 8 and not fouling 15 is to use RHE throwing 8 to pocket.

LHE would pinch 8 to shortrail w/same hit....
 
jsp

jsp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
randyg said:
Where did the cue-ball stop at???
Click to expand...
The CB stopped where indicated in the diagram...right in between where the 10, 8, and 15 used to be.
 
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