Four reasons bar leagues have been pool's ankle weights

[CocoboloCowboy]

and what to do about it.

National pool associations are quick to point out that pool is among the top participation sports, and yet as we all know most of these participants cannot name the top players in their city nor can they name professional players.

Why is this?

It is not important to these people.

Most young, single professionals getting their first jobs out of college don't go out and play pool, even though it has all the makings of a great active social activity that can be done all year round, is relatively inexpensive, and can be a great way to meet people.

Why is this?

Maybe they don?t have money for Pool as they need to pay off loans, or have demanding jobs.

Few women play.

Why is this?

I see in Tournaments and League maybe 15-20% Female participation in the Valley

I think we have been sucked in and allowed this to happen by allowing VENDING COMPANIES to take over the nurturing, the promotion, the day-to-day operation, and the vision of our sport.

So why is that a problem?

So what is you answer to resolve this?

Most of that large number of pool participants play on a coin-operated table owned and operated by a vending company, a company that also leases juke boxes, dart systems, and video machines to taverns. Here are four reasons we should have taken control and done something about this a long time ago.

(1) Casual pool players don't see good pool players because good pool players for the most part play in a pool room rather than a bar and scoff at bar tables with slow cloth and heavy cueballs. That makes that hoard of casual participants at pool different from the hoard of casual participants at golf or bowling or tennis or skiing, for examples, who do play along side of good players on the same equipment. The consequence is at these other activities there's a smooth and easy transition between being a casual participant and being a somewhat more serious participant.

(2) Only about 20% of adults smoke in this country. And of course things are changing with smoking bans, etc. But the bottom line is over the past few decades, way more than 20% of bar pool players have smoked. In fact smoking has been very much a social-class phenomenon. I'm a university professor, and of the 18 people in my department, only one smokes, and he's from Germany. My wife is an attorney, and pretty much nobody around her smokes, except for a few of the secretaries. I'm not making a point about smoking. I'm making a point about VENDING COMPANIES who have had zero incentive to court demographic groups that have been unlikely to go to smoky bars. That's been a huge missed opportunity.

(3) Pool being done in bars, i.e., in a place that minors can't enter, has been a big impediment for pool, imo. Around here, minors play a lot of golf because there are good public courses. But they don't play pool. And the vending companies and bars have no real incentive to promote the activity to minors.

(4) We sometimes think vending companies/bars are promoting pool to women when they're really not. Behind all the "ladies play free" and "ladies drink free while they play" is actually promotion to men. Drawing women in the door because we know the men will follow IS NOT promoting the sport to women. If we want actually to promote to women, we need to try to understand the environment that would be appealing and comfortable to a group of women co-workers who want to do an activity together.

Many/most Billiard Parlors have been unwitting contributors to the vending company problem. Though this has been less true in the heartland than on the coasts, real players and billiard room proprietors with their 9-foot tables and Simonis cloth and red-circle cueballs look down their noses at "bar pool."
They talk derisively about "league players," and if they bring leagues into their establishments to get the warm bodies, they frequently do it through vending companies on vending-company equipment and thus have a "class B" section of the room. Then the proprietors and the players bemoan the fact 9-foot tables had to be traded out for bar boxes to pay the bills....

So what should we do about it?

Billiard parlors and real pool players need to start respecting 7-foot tables. That doesn't mean get rid of all the 9-foot tables, and that doesn't mean coin-operated tables and mud balls. The reality is the games really are better for newer players on easier equipment. We need to recognize that and embrace it. Furthermore the game played on 7-foot tables is actually much better and more challenging than most players who never touch the 7-foot tables realize.

Notice I'm not calling them "bar tables." We need to get rid of that association. When you get rid of the coin mechanism, put on decent cloth, and use a real cue ball, we need to get in our heads that it is no longer "bar pool." Sometimes we need to give a little in order to get more. And I really think the poolrooms need to suck the leagues out of the bars and out of the grips of the vending companies. I don't mean get rid of bar leagues. Leave them be. But we need to take back the steering wheel on pool leagues. Only then can we really begin the task of opening up this great activity to new demographics.

Events and tours for top players will come in time. Our crisis is at the grassroots level.

Your above points are good, but I see not much change down the road as Coin Op. Table generate Revenue for Room/Bar Owners.

Here in the Valley of the Sun, I can only think of maybe 5-7% of the Bars, Sports Bars, and Pool Rooms that have full size tables!

 

[fd_colorado]

re: how to attract more women players

If this point has already been covered, I apologize as I've only skimmed over these lengthy and thorough posts.

Why not ask women what they want?

I think you'll find a big difference between what they want and what they get at a pool hall.

Most groups of couples that I see at pool halls invariably have the boyfriend telling the gal where to aim, how hard to hit the ball, etc. This is not a fun way for the gals to spend their time. I would think that women want to be independent, in control and ultimately to know more about the game and play better than their boyfriends.

Why not have a Ladies Only series where for a couple of hours the ladies can, in a private setting, receive some general instruction in the various aspects of pool:

Cue and Table termonology
How to pick a good house cue
Stance, bridges etc...

...You can certainly make up your own curriculums.

Most rooms have a cocktail waitress that plays and could promote the series to female players.

And if you're ever in doubt, just ask the ladies what they want.

 

[Vinnie]

I have a question

It seems that part of the solution is family orientated pool halls. My question is how is it possible to keep a pool hall above water without selling alcohol? I remember one place back in Livonia, MI that was non alcohol serving. I wonder if that place is still in business and how they manage to survive. My wife and I tossed around the idea in our area for years, but couldn't come up with a good business plan.

 

[manwon]

Mike...Your basic problem is that you're somewhat misinformed. First, you have your perspective of a very small market segment, only in your region...which simply does not reflect what happens nationwide. The truth is that all the organized bar leagues together do not make up 10% of the people who regularly play pool in bars. Until you find a way to attract the attention of the other 90% (we're talking about the 4,000,000 'regular players'...defined as people who play at least once a week), you have no prayer to accomplish the lofty goals you describe.

Second, there are at least 10x as many people who go to the bar just to drink, gamble, or watch sports on tv, than go there to play pool. This country is 'gamble crazy' as evidenced by the proliferation of hundreds of casinos, and the hundreds of millions of lottery tickets sold every day. Find a way to make pool attractive to those people, and you have a chance.

Third, the reality is that there are at least 10x as many bar pool tables owned by bar owners, than those owned (and serviced) by vending companies. If what you said was true, the VNEA would be 4x the size of the APA. VNEA has had about the same number of 'league players' for the past 20 years, while other leagues have flourished and grown by leaps and bounds.

I agree that finding a way to get youth actively involved with pool (outside of gambling), is fundamental in improving the overall lot and perspective of pool in America. Getting our youth involved through YMCAs, Boys & Girls Clubs, and high school programs is a great start...but it needs nationwide implementation. IMO, a more fundamental problem lies with the bar league players themselves. 85% of them have children of their own, yet make no attempt to expose them to pool's positive points (probably because they don't know them themselves), or bring them into the game. The BCA totally failed at creating youth programs. As much as I admire Mark Griffin, and what he wants to do for pool, I don't see any input regarding youth players, leagues and/or tournaments. 15 years ago, I went to Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart, with an organized plan to create kid's leagues within the APA. They had ZERO interest, and turned me down flat.

While I don't have all the answers, blaming the vending companies, for the problems within bar league pool, is a bit like blaming McDonalds and Burger King for the obesity problem in America.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

IMO, a more fundamental problem lies with the bar league players themselves. 85% of them have children of their own, yet make no attempt to expose them to pool's positive points (probably because they don't know them themselves), or bring them into the game.


Scott I do not agree with the above, I think the main reason this problem exists is that the League players do not have a lot of choices where they can take their Kids to play. In addition to this, most League players are either Middle Class or below and many can not afford or do not have room for a table at home. Since my room is all ages, I see many of the local league players taking their children out to play pool, in fact most of these kids also have their own cues.

Also because my room is all ages, many do bring their children during league play. I offer the parents discounts on pool time if I have open tables so that their children can also play, and many take advantage of this. To say that most League players don't expose their children to the positive side of pool is also not a true statement, at least where I am located, because I have seen just the opposite.

Scott, I agree with most of what you have said with the exception of the above. I also think that if the room operators, retailers, and the Pool League Organizations do not begin to support the next generation and very soon the sport is going to die in America. If all the organizations banded together the cost of this promotion would be very minimal and life may be able to be breathed back into our sport before it is too late.

Take care Scott

 

[Pushout]

It seems that part of the solution is family orientated pool halls. My question is how is it possible to keep a pool hall above water without selling alcohol? I remember one place back in Livonia, MI that was non alcohol serving. I wonder if that place is still in business and how they manage to survive. My wife and I tossed around the idea in our area for years, but couldn't come up with a good business plan.

Ask the people from New York State. It's only in the last 10 years or so that NYS has allowed alcohol to be served in pool rooms in New York State. Pool rooms in Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, Cortland, Ithaca, Binghamton, Endicott, and that's just rooms out of the City proper that were in operation before alcohol could be served and still are.

 

[poolpro]

I hope this isn't off topic-


When I read the JB's post about the boys and girls clubs, it made me think of an idea that I have had many times in the past. I still have not "pulled the trigger" on it. I would like to see what you guys think?


I always get these community "adult education" and "enrichment" class schedules in the mail. I have read through them and see all kinds of things in them from ballroom dancing, computer classes, music lessons, karate, and even golf.

I love to teach and have taught guitar lessons and pool lessons in the past. I was wondering how a billiards class would go over. Obviously it would take place in a pool room. Just as the golf lessons are offered through the program, but take place on a golf course.

I figured I could get a special rate from a pool room for 2-3 tables on a scheduled night. It would be good for the pool room as well. I would be bringing in people who have an interest in pool and most likely may never have walked into the room in the first place. I think there are a lot of people who may have a passing interest in pool, but may not be comfortable walking into a strange pool room due to the negative image the game has. Also, a few people will more than likely want to practice what they have learned and show up early, or stay later than the lesson. Also these new customers would be prime candidates for joining the room's league.

I think a lot of the reason we miss out on new players is not the game itself, but the overall negative image of the players and the places where it is played. I think that once you break the "fear of the unknown", more people can get hooked. Once they are in the room with others who are just as new as they are, they won't feel so self concious, and may take a look around and say " This place aint so bad after all".

I was thinking about having an 8 week class 2 hours a week. Just be a basic introduction to pool and teach the proper fundamentals and rules. Maybe offer an intermediate class too, and private lessons for a couple if interested.

I also would promote it as a great family activity. I would focus on the positive apects of the challenge of the game and the skill it takes to become an acomplished player.

So what do you guys think? Anyone feel free to steal this idea, as i think it would be great to see this thing pop up all over the country and beyond.

JW

 

[mikepage]

I think Patrick Johnson has done something like this.

Pat?

I hope this isn't off topic-


When I read the JB's post about the boys and girls clubs, it made me think of an idea that I have had many times in the past. I still have not "pulled the trigger" on it. I would like to see what you guys think?


I always get these community "adult education" and "enrichment" class schedules in the mail. I have read through them and see all kinds of things in them from ballroom dancing, computer classes, music lessons, karate, and even golf.

I love to teach and have taught guitar lessons and pool lessons in the past. I was wondering how a billiards class would go over. Obviously it would take place in a pool room. Just as the golf lessons are offered through the program, but take place on a golf course.

I figured I could get a special rate from a pool room for 2-3 tables on a scheduled night. It would be good for the pool room as well. I would be bringing in people who have an interest in pool and most likely may never have walked into the room in the first place. I think there are a lot of people who may have a passing interest in pool, but may not be comfortable walking into a strange pool room due to the negative image the game has. Also, a few people will more than likely want to practice what they have learned and show up early, or stay later than the lesson. Also these new customers would be prime candidates for joining the room's league.

I think a lot of the reason we miss out on new players is not the game itself, but the overall negative image of the players and the places where it is played. I think that once you break the "fear of the unknown", more people can get hooked. Once they are in the room with others who are just as new as they are, they won't feel so self concious, and may take a look around and say " This place aint so bad after all".

I was thinking about having an 8 week class 2 hours a week. Just be a basic introduction to pool and teach the proper fundamentals and rules. Maybe offer an intermediate class too, and private lessons for a couple if interested.

I also would promote it as a great family activity. I would focus on the positive apects of the challenge of the game and the skill it takes to become an acomplished player.

So what do you guys think? Anyone feel free to steal this idea, as i think it would be great to see this thing pop up all over the country and beyond.

JW

 

[poolpro]

I think Patrick Johnson has done something like this.

Pat?

I would love to hear from someone who has done this already!!


Any thoughts or suggestions?


Maybe I will start another thread dedicated to this topic.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Here is the Valley of the Sun you have APA, ACS, BCA, TAP, and about 3-4 other Leagues that have Team playing in the Valley of the Sun. I would guess the vast majority of there player, and not serious about their pool game, or ever wanting to really get better.

The financial impact on pool in the Valley would be devastating on the Bars, Sports Bars, and Equipment if the segment of the pool playing population went away in the Valley, or Nationally.

 

[chevybob20]

Gambling does indeed occur on in golf. The difference lies in the people and the manner in which it happens. When I'm on the tee box, I'm not bothered by people asking me to gamble with them. I can go out with my friends and play a round of golf without beeing bothered by people looking to score my hard earned cash. I only gamble small amounts with people I know and trust. I am not against gambling and do like to watch the action. Also, the action crowd tends to thumb their nose at those that don't gamble. I was in a hall watching two good players matching up in 1P when someone said that they should get off the table unless they were betting at least $100 a game.

I play in a smoke free pool room. It brings in a complete different clientele than the other rooms. Also, by state law, minors can only enter the smoke free rooms. The room owner has junior leagus and alows juniors in the room up to a certain time at night.

I enjoy pool and being around pool players. But, if I had a child that I wanted to learn the sport and my area didn't have the room I play in, I would not go to the other rooms with the smoke, gambling and excessive drinking. I would not want to raise my kids in that atmosphere (In fact, I didn't).

If players keep blaming the decline of the sport on all the other influences out there without making personal corrections then we will continue this conversation for years to come.

 

[poolplayer2093]

#1. people playing pool is not a bad thing

#2..bar leagues are where the vast majority of competent players .. play

#3 to the vast majority of casual players.. the league players ARE the good players.. the pro's have no influence on their lives what so ever..and that is the fault of the Pro's IMO

#4 I agree.. the vending companies have an absolute strangle hold on leagues... I play VNEA..in the Mankato area... there are very few public 9' tables within 70 miles of my home...and the 2 that exist are under pressure to remove them.... or lose the dominant league.. and their bar dollars..

#5 leagues are not a bad thing.. but the companies that control leagues ARE a bad influence on the growth of pool..

#6 bar table 8-ball is a tough game in it's own right.. remember to get the same concentration of balls on a 9 foot table... you need 25 balls..... play position now..... tight cueball control wins on a bar table... and 9' snobs blow that fact off .. and as such get beat by lesser players on tighter equipment..

i have to disagree with #2.

 

[td873]

It seems you spent some time and effort in your post. It's great to see someone trying to right this ship, but I think you've missed the mark on this one.

In fact, I was a bit confused after reading all the problems and answers and even more confused at some of the cause/effect relationships.

Casual pool players don't see good pool players because good pool players for the most part play in a pool room [...] casual participants at golf or bowling or tennis or skiing, for examples, [...] do play along side of good players on the same equipment.

They see them on TV. Nobody plays golf with Tiger or tennis with
Roddick or skis with Peekaboo. I don't play golf, tennis, football, baseball, or hockey, but I know the big names. They show up on SportsCenter. A perfect example is Poker. Nobody new any big poker players until it was televised. Pool has no coverage.

(2) Only about 20% of adults smoke in this country.
[...]
I'm making a point about VENDING COMPANIES who have had zero incentive to court demographic groups that have been unlikely to go to smoky bars. That's been a huge missed opportunity.

Why wouln't vending companies go after 80% of the population, and thus 80% of the money?

So what should we do about it?

Billiard parlors and real pool players need to start respecting 7-foot tables.

Sounds good on paper. But, is there a plan to achieve this?

Only then can we really begin the task of opening up this great activity to new demographics.

Pool is already the top participant sport? When new demographics are we trying to reach?

...

Pool is and has been stigmatized. Even during the revivals, pool has been frowned upon. There's no easy fix for this, and no entity to blame. It is what it is.

I don't have the solution, and applaud efforts to find one. But this type of finger pointing and unguided effort may actually be counterproductive.

-td

Lastly, most women don't play pool because they simply don't like it. No other reason.

 

[JB Cases]

I've been to VNEA junior nationals as a parent John. As as much as I respect their efforts and appreciate that they do it, there may be more participation of kids playing SOCCER in FARGO than there are kids playing competitive pool in a three-state area around me.

Well there are more kids playing soccer around the world than are playing pool. Why? All you need to play soccer is a ball and a bunch of kids. That's not a good analogy.

The point was that the leagues "are" doing something to encourage youth participation, even the one vending machine operator driven league.

This wasn't really about tearing into HOW they do it. 21 might be too old to be called a Junior Player but if you are too young to get in the bar legally then perhaps you are still a junior. At least the VNEA keeps it consistent so that the junior players don't gravitate to other leagues in the time between junior status ending and "legal age" begins.

Furthermore some of the "juniors" at VNEA junior nationals have two kids and a mortgage. Age 21 the cutoff for "junior league?" Really? This is another reflection of the ties of pool leagues to bars.




And I applaud that. Pool room owners need to take on some of the mindset that works for the APA. They need to partner more with organizations like the APA, and they need to take ownership and do more themselves in this regard.

Most are. In a lot of the rooms around Charlotte for example it's hard to get a table on league nights.





Yes there are becoming more of these rooms. And that's a good thing.

[...]
[...]


I'm fine for having more leagues in bars. But it should be the bars following the lead of the billiard parlors, not the billiard parlors following the lead of the bars. I played as a sub last year in a bar league. I'd have an opponent who could make long shots, fire in banks, draw and follow the cueball who would systematically run six balls with a 7th absolutely buried at the foot of the table in my balls. What's he gonna do? I'm thinking... Well he ran six balls and then stood up and gazed at the buried one with a what am I gonna do? look. He just has no exposure to people who understand the basic concepts of the game.

He had exposure to you. Did you show him some tips after the game? Did you invite him to come to the pool room and learn from real players? I do this all the time against weaker players. Again though it's something that the leagues should promote and some do and some don't. I know bars that have hired coaches, brought in pros for clinics, maintain a library of videos and other bars that could care less.



Three comments John.

First I'm not blaming that one segment of the industry. That segment is doing what it makes sense for that segment to do. I'm blaming the rest of us.

I agree. It's a tandem effort. However, the rest of "us" have jobs and lives and dozens of things daily that want our attention. What you want requires coordinated organization and resources? Where do propose that those come from?

I propose that it comes from the form of abolishing the BCA and taking .25cts per week from each league member in the United States and using that money to fund a national system that can take a person from raw amateur to pro, complete with competitive avenues at every level.


Second, I sense some indignation, like who am I sitting on my butt to complain about anything. John I've not been in this industry, but I've organized and run a straight pool league for a couple years. I've organized and run monthly tournaments for a couple years. I've put together a dozen or so youtube videos on pool topics. I worked out the math for a new a rating system and published it in billiard digest, and I've tried to contribute positively to these boards over the years.

You do contribute tremendously and I contribute to your ability to contribute whenever we play for money.

You have actually done quite a lot and stand to do much more. If I had the money to fund the endeavor I outlined above I'd want you in a leadership, if not the chief executive position.


Third, I very much am doing something LITERALLY at the GRASS ROOTS level

http://myweb.cableone.net/fargopage/dirt.JPG

;-)

And that's fantastic. Now can we make a template and FORCE our single national organization who claims to "govern" pool to adopt it.

 

[hfelsh]

OK, I read the first post, and many of the replies (though I admit to skimming several of them.) First off, I'm a fairly good player. I mean, i gave up the game a few years back (long story, involved a woman), but I recently picked it up again, and am glad I have. No, I don't "respect" the 7-foot table.

And by "7-foot table", I assume you mean the coin-op table, right? I don't like them one bit. I won't play on them unless I *absolutely* have to. It doesn't play the same as the 9-foot table. I prefer the 9-foot table, as I feel like I'm playing "real pool", instead of "mini-pool". I don't like mini-golf, either, and you don't see Tiger Woods complaining that people don't "respect the mini-golf course". "Respect the 7-foot table" is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. :barf: Why should I "respect" inferior equipment? What's next, are you telling me that I should "respect" the $19.99 cues being sold by WalMart because people use them? :rotflmao1:

Secondly, here in Tampa Bay, FL, I don't know of one single league that plays on 7-foot "barroom" tables.

I've been to several pool halls here, and all have leagues; while they might have one or three 7-foot coin-op tables, 95%+ of the tables are 9-footers, and that's where league is played. No one I know knows of any "leagues" playing on 7-foot barroom tables. Maybe we just don't have them in this area.

For that matter, there aren't any "ladies play free" or "ladies drink free while they play" nights, not that I've seen, anyway.

I agree on the barroom "rules", however. Those annoy the crap out of me.

I've actually tried to join "the league" in two or three of the places I frequent, and while they seem happy enough to want to accept my money, the players really haven't been all that friendly, which is why I haven't joined any of them. I've hung around on league night, tried to chat with the players, and asked about joining their league and/or a team. Most of them seem to be broken up into cliques, and the "team" has to vote on if you can join. Geez, I thought I left high school 23 years ago.

Hmmm...maybe a barroom league IS sounding like a good idea after all...

 

[JDB]

OK, I read the first post, and many of the replies (though I admit to skimming several of them.) First off, I'm a fairly good player. I mean, i gave up the game a few years back (long story, involved a woman), but I recently picked it up again, and am glad I have. No, I don't "respect" the 7-foot table.

And by "7-foot table", I assume you mean the coin-op table, right? I don't like them one bit. I won't play on them unless I *absolutely* have to. It doesn't play the same as the 9-foot table. I prefer the 9-foot table, as I feel like I'm playing "real pool", instead of "mini-pool". I don't like mini-golf, either, and you don't see Tiger Woods complaining that people don't "respect the mini-golf course". "Respect the 7-foot table" is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. :barf: Why should I "respect" inferior equipment? What's next, are you telling me that I should "respect" the $19.99 cues being sold by WalMart because people use them? :rotflmao1:

Secondly, here in Tampa Bay, FL, I don't know of one single league that plays on 7-foot "barroom" tables.

I've been to several pool halls here, and all have leagues; while they might have one or three 7-foot coin-op tables, 95%+ of the tables are 9-footers, and that's where league is played. No one I know knows of any "leagues" playing on 7-foot barroom tables. Maybe we just don't have them in this area.

For that matter, there aren't any "ladies play free" or "ladies drink free while they play" nights, not that I've seen, anyway.

I agree on the barroom "rules", however. Those annoy the crap out of me.

I've actually tried to join "the league" in two or three of the places I frequent, and while they seem happy enough to want to accept my money, the players really haven't been all that friendly, which is why I haven't joined any of them. I've hung around on league night, tried to chat with the players, and asked about joining their league and/or a team. Most of them seem to be broken up into cliques, and the "team" has to vote on if you can join. Geez, I thought I left high school 23 years ago.

Hmmm...maybe a barroom league IS sounding like a good idea after all...

That is too bad... Are you sure that you are not the problem in joining?

I recently moved to Texas and I joined (2) different teams in different divisions and had no problem in doing so. I was very concerned that I wouldn't be able to play because I am a high rated player (APA) and most of the time teams are looking for low rated players. Therefore, I thought I would have a tough time joining a team, but I had no problem at all.

 

[hfelsh]

That is too bad... Are you sure that you are not the problem in joining?

Yes, I am sure. I belonged to a league in St. Petersburg, a couple of years ago before I quit playing. I'm living in Clearwater now, and it's just too far of a drive for me (45 minutes one way, without traffic!), but I still go there and hang out sometimes. I belonged to one in Tampa prior to that (which is over an hour away, one way, without traffic.) The "leagues" over here in Clearwater and Dunedin seem to be a different class of people. :frown: So, I'm still looking, I'm sure I'll find one sooner or later...or move again. My lease is up in 5 months anyway.

 

[poolplayer2093]

OK, I read the first post, and many of the replies (though I admit to skimming several of them.) First off, I'm a fairly good player. I mean, i gave up the game a few years back (long story, involved a woman), but I recently picked it up again, and am glad I have. No, I don't "respect" the 7-foot table.

And by "7-foot table", I assume you mean the coin-op table, right? I don't like them one bit. I won't play on them unless I *absolutely* have to. It doesn't play the same as the 9-foot table. I prefer the 9-foot table, as I feel like I'm playing "real pool", instead of "mini-pool". I don't like mini-golf, either, and you don't see Tiger Woods complaining that people don't "respect the mini-golf course". "Respect the 7-foot table" is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. :barf: Why should I "respect" inferior equipment? What's next, are you telling me that I should "respect" the $19.99 cues being sold by WalMart because people use them? :rotflmao1:

Secondly, here in Tampa Bay, FL, I don't know of one single league that plays on 7-foot "barroom" tables.

I've been to several pool halls here, and all have leagues; while they might have one or three 7-foot coin-op tables, 95%+ of the tables are 9-footers, and that's where league is played. No one I know knows of any "leagues" playing on 7-foot barroom tables. Maybe we just don't have them in this area.

For that matter, there aren't any "ladies play free" or "ladies drink free while they play" nights, not that I've seen, anyway.

I agree on the barroom "rules", however. Those annoy the crap out of me.

I've actually tried to join "the league" in two or three of the places I frequent, and while they seem happy enough to want to accept my money, the players really haven't been all that friendly, which is why I haven't joined any of them. I've hung around on league night, tried to chat with the players, and asked about joining their league and/or a team. Most of them seem to be broken up into cliques, and the "team" has to vote on if you can join. Geez, I thought I left high school 23 years ago.

Hmmm...maybe a barroom league IS sounding like a good idea after all...

there is some skills required on the bar box. the balls tie up a lot so bumping thins free is critical

 

[smoooothstroke]

not so fast..

Bar pool and poolrooms are 2 different worlds, bar players dont care about pool-they drink. Most pool players dont think about bar pool much-unless you need a easy score. Two different games, two different groups of people-which are never gonna get together, Thank God. I dont like drunks who forget to shoot for 15 minutes when its their turn or forget to let go of your hand when they shake it. There pool game isnt my pool game.

Its not really that clear cut anymore.I play in a room that has a bar with a dozen bar tables and a dozen 9ft gold crowns.The business is mostly supported by the bar table revenue and alcohol sales.There are few rooms in the area with 9 foot tables.The pool gamblers go there because there are tournaments and when there are tourneys there are pool players,they go where they know there will be action.Many of the bar-goers never venture beyond the Valleys but many do come back to play on the 9' tables and begin to mix in with the regular pool crowd.

I have been in many "pool halls" that blur the lines between tavern/sportsbar and pool room.The last several pool rooms that have opened around here immediately applied for a liquor license as part of the business plan.

It would not surprise me if in the near future the only pool rooms in this area are hybrid casino-pool hall-bar type places.