From 9&10-ball to 14.1

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
For years on here a good percentage of members (myself included) have felt that 14.1 is a better game than 9&10-ball to see who the best player is. I don?t think that is true anymore. With more and more safties and kicks in 9&10 ball over the last few years I have seen many of them play 14.1 for the first few times in their life and do very well at it. Most of the top 9&10-ball players can compete at the top in 14.1 after learning the rules and only playing for a few months. Johnnyt
 
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Johnnyt said:
For years on here a good percentage of members (myself included) on here have felt that 14.1 is a better game than 9&10-ball to see who the best player is. I don?t think that is true anymore. With more and more safties and kicks in 9&10 ball over the last few years I have seen many of them play 14.1 for the first few times in their life and do very well at it. Most of the top 9&10-ball players can compete at the top in 14.1 after learning the rules and only playing for a few months. Johnnyt
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Just curious, who would you put in that category of never having played Straight Pool before?
 
I watched an interview with Allison Fisher on YouTube, conducted at the Derby City Classic. She participated in the straight pool event, and came out with a high run of 56. This was higher than Johnny Archer's! Allison isn't completely brand new to 14.1, but she states it's one of the few times that she's played it.

(yes yes I know she won the last women's 14.1 US Open, but it's not her strongest game by any stretch)
 
Not that he *never* played it before, but back before John Schmidt was taught the "right" way to play 14.1 by Bobby Hunter, Schmidt beat the infamous Mike Sigel. I believe this was the match where Sigel got so mad he broke his cue. And it's all on AccuStats!

I was watching a video where Grady Mathews was commentating, and he made mention of that match. He said John didn't know patterns (back then) at all, but he was the most naturally gifted shooter he'd ever seen. And I guess it was enough.

Pushout said:
Just curious, who would you put in that category of never having played Straight Pool before?
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darren appleton. he won the DCC straight pool challenge i think.

^^

straight pool is still a very great great pure game and it takes a hell of a lot to master. but i do think johnnyt is on to something here, although to what extent i'm not sure.
 
And if a top 14.1 player (consistent 100 ball runner) decided to learn 9 ball for the first time in their life, after a few weeks they would be competitive as well in 9 ball tournaments.

The point isn't so much how easily one player a player can move between games, it is which game decides the better player. In which case 14.1, One Pocket and Rotation are far superior to 9 or 10 ball.

Top players are going to move between disciplines with relative success because at the end of the day it's another game of pool, they already have many of the neccessary skills to succeed. Shane Van Boening, I expect, would do well in the World 14.1 Championship, but honestly would you stake him against Thorsten Hohmann next week in a 1000 point game?
 
I think it goes beyond learning the game. I believe 14.1 requires an entirely different mind set in terms of concentration, both in kind and endurance.

While a top 9 ball player may learn the game in a few months, I think the edge would still strongly favor the straight pool player in his game just based on the concentration factor.

I also believe that sitting and watching for such a long stretch while your opponent runs racks can effect a 9 ball player beyond the training of merely learning the game. In 9 ball you practically never get frozen out for such long periods of time as you do in 14.1.

Balls that you'd fire in the hole in 9 ball without a second thought, become 30 to 40 percenters in 14.1. Its just a different game, even beyond the moves.

I am not saying there are not a few latent natural 14.1 players out there playing 9 ball, but overall I just believe it goes beyond learning the rules and the moves. And finally, I think the more you get shot at in 14.1 the more the lack of experience in the game will show itself.
 
Cameron Smith said:
And if a top 14.1 player (consistent 100 ball runner) decided to learn 9 ball for the first time in their life, after a few weeks they would be competitive as well in 9 ball tournaments.
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Your right to an extent Cameron except you forgot the Break factor. I come from the Heart of 14.1 country and I know more than a few World class 14.1 players that struggled at top flight 9ball because of a weak break...my teacher being one of them.

Luckily I was a 9ball junky at first, then learned 14.1, now I'm a one hole degenerate. I think it's the best possible way to learn. Shot making, to paterns and running balls, to the ultimate test.....1P
 
Gerry said:
Your right to an extent Cameron except you forgot the Break factor. I come from the Heart of 14.1 country and I know more than a few World class 14.1 players that struggled at top flight 9ball because of a weak break...my teacher being one of them.

Luckily I was a 9ball junky at first, then learned 14.1, now I'm a one hole degenerate. I think it's the best possible way to learn. Shot making, to paterns and running balls, to the ultimate test.....1P
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Very true, I suffer from a poor break as well. But I didn't mean regularily, I just meant in any given tournament.

I suspect in a tournament with easy breaking tables a 14.1 player would do well.
 
Archer's 201-ball run

Back in the early 1990s, I had the good fortune to witness a tournament in the Cleveland area which featured a straight pool match between Johnny Archer and Nick Varner, race to 150. At the time, Archer had only been messing around with straight pool for a few weeks, though he'd had good lessons (including from Varner IIRC).

My old notes say that Varner broke, Archer ran 5, Varner ran 36, and Archer ran out. When he got to 150, the crowd urged him to keep going. He ran either 200 or 201 balls (even my notes aren't sure) before missing a tough break shot. I remember thinking then, and I still believe now, that he missed that shot on purpose because I knew he had a match to get ready for in a couple of hours. (Johnny's acting skills are nowhere near his pool skills, let's just say that.)

Varner was interviewed later and I heard him say Archer's 200-ball run after only a few weeks of playing the game was one of the strongest pool achievements he'd ever seen. Remember, this was back in '91 or '92 when Archer was indisputably the world's #1 player.

The other thing I remember was, Varner ran his 36 like an old school player, with the cue ball never traveling past the side pockets. Archer was all over the place. At times it looked like he was playing rotation. He just never missed.

Man, I wish I had that match on DVD. AFAIK, it was not recorded.
 
I'm just a mediocre player, but for me the harder game is nine-ball because I practice 14.1 more.

Playing 14.1 I'm more accustomed to half-table analysis, with small movements, but when I switch to nine-ball it becomes a full table game with more two and three rail shape.

I always have to sit and think about how I wanna get from an 8-ball sitting near the headrails to a 9-ball in the kitchen. It probably shouldn't be so difficult for me because it's probably like shaping for the break ball in 14.1.

It's easier for me to transition to eight-ball which is non-rotational than nine-ball.
 
Well, My 14.1 game is still absolutely terrible. However I have noticed it has really helped my 9/10 ball game. FYI I started playing 9ball 15 years before ever attempting to play 14.1.

I will admit I fall into "Paralysis by analysis" when planning out my patterns in 14.1.

This is why I think 14.1 is the superior game to 9/10 ball. The player has to figure out how to continue his run. It is not dictated to him by which numbered ball is next.
 
I had trouble at first also Scottster. I was lucky enough to have a great player as my teacher which obviously helped a ton. In the first days of my 14.1 learning to prove his point that 14.1 was not about shot making, but about pattern knowledge....Andy sat and told me what shots to shoot, and what his thinking was for the whole rack. I ran 71 friggin balls that day and got stuck in the stack on my breaker!:eek: I was a 9baller who couldn't run 2 rack of 14.1!

From that day on when I wasn't playing well I was SURE I wasn't thinking well. This might help the paralysis.....I have 4 basic rules I always go to when I'm not sure what to do. These are interchangeable...

1. Clear the pocket lanes so all balls have a pocket.
2. Remove the balls on the rails by pocketing them OR moving them.
3. Set up the end rack with the breakers, and key balls
4. NEVER EVER shoot a shot/breakout without an insurance ball.

thats it, I try to keep it simple. I have a few more things I keep in mind, but when I'm playing/thinking well, these are what works for me.

good luck,
 
Hi Gerry, thanks for the input. I too am very fortunate to have the influence of a world class 14.1 player, who would like nothing more than to see me break 100.

Unfortunately, with the way my brain currently functions during 14.1 that goal is way off in the horizon.
 
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