Gambling and pool: an hypothetical situation

[Slh]

Pool becomes mainstream, every week there is a big prized tournament and most of the pros make a good living. Gambling is not a necessity anymore.
A lot of people gamble because of the excitement but we know a lot of players gamble to make a living.
Would gambling diminish in this hypothetical situation?

 

[The Chinchilla]

Pool becomes mainstream, every week there is a big prized tournament and most of the pros make a good living. Gambling is not a necessity anymore.
A lot of people gamble because of the excitement but we know a lot of players gamble to make a living.
Would gambling diminish in this hypothetical situation?

I think if this were the case, pool would almost be "self cleaning," like one of those ovens. Seeing how good they have it, players would persuade others to shape up, and be better role models too. I truly believe the biggest mistake people make with respect to pool players is they feel there is something within them that is shady. There is no inherent shadiness in pool players, there is shadiness in humans though. Put any group of people under extreme pressure to earn a living doing what they do, and you will see that shadiness come out.

As to the gambling aspect, I think it would still exist, yet diminish, and I think you'd see the players be much more inconspicuous about it all. I truly think the only difference between say US golfers and pool players is the amount of money available to earn. Take the money out of golf, and you'd see the hustlers and dead beats emerge, no doubt. As it stands now, young up and coming golfers want to win tournaments, they don't want to go out and make big "scores." That;s how I think pool would be with great prize money. It is all just a product of what the youngsters see, and how they are influenced by that.

 

[macguy]

Pool becomes mainstream, every week there is a big prized tournament and most of the pros make a good living. Gambling is not a necessity anymore.
A lot of people gamble because of the excitement but we know a lot of players gamble to make a living.
Would gambling diminish in this hypothetical situation?

Regardless just as in every sport there would only be a small percent that would actually make a living. After all just as in say golf it is the same actors every week, different tournament. What would happen is it would at least create a carrot for new and up coming players to reach for. More players=more gambling as they try to get by while waiting for their big chance. Pool is not a game that can be played at the top level, where you would have to play to make a living, part time.

Players would need lots and lots of smaller tournaments to play in to get seasoning and earn some money as they try to move up the ranks. In team sports players who are one year rookies make over $400,000 a year. They make a good living even as they are learning. Minor leagues players make a couple thousand a month and up with expenses. Heck, they can make a living and never play in the pros. The catch 22 is for pool, how do they make a living while waiting for their big break in a sport that requires such dedication of time? No actual time for anything else?

 

[King T]

Gambling & Pool

Well there is a big diff between pool and golf and it is the money!! You dont have to be a top golfer to make big money. There are guys that teach, caddy and do repair work that make very good livings, more than our top pool players.

The worst player in golf, makes more mony in a year than the top pool players, its a big money game and in the USA there is little money in pool, might be changing, but it hasnt yet.

Gambling is sport, it is part of pool and it will be...., might fall of a bit if the top 50-70 players could have a shot at some real money, $150- $200, per year each, but the guys at the break even point are going to be hustlin!

 

[macguy]

Well there is a big diff between pool and golf and it is the money!! You dont have to be a top golfer to make big money. There are guys that teach, caddy and do repair work that make very good livings, more than our top pool players.

The worst player in golf, makes more mony in a year than the top pool players, its a big money game and in the USA there is little money in pool, might be changing, but it hasnt yet.

Gambling is sport, it is part of pool and it will be...., might fall of a bit if the top 50-70 players could have a shot at some real money, $150- $200, per year each, but the guys at the break even point are going to be hustlin!

Although we are already wandering off the original subject, for a person to make money in any sport they have to be many things. First, a player of course, but maybe more so a personality, and businessman with a tireless work ethic. In other sports the players are actually schooled in this stuff.

Pool players by their very nature seem to be losers when it comes to actually being successful. People like Allen Hopkins, Miz and from what I can tell Charlie Williams are some of the exceptions. They have taken the advantages given to them by their pool skills and spun it into a real living. You can add to that also players who teach and do exhibitions, full time I am talking about. Most pool players though sit at the curb waiting for a handout.

 

[macguy]

The problem with pool as career path is that only 3 people are supposed to win in every tournament. So what if you aren't one of the 3 best players at an event? Well it may be time to find a day job.

In the hypothetical of the OP it is assumed that there is enough money in the tournament that the guy finishing 63th can make a small living while working his way up.

 

[Drew]

Well there is a big diff between pool and golf and it is the money!! You dont have to be a top golfer to make big money. There are guys that teach, caddy and do repair work that make very good livings, more than our top pool players.

The worst player in golf, makes more mony in a year than the top pool players, its a big money game and in the USA there is little money in pool, might be changing, but it hasnt yet.

Gambling is sport, it is part of pool and it will be...., might fall of a bit if the top 50-70 players could have a shot at some real money, $150- $200, per year each, but the guys at the break even point are going to be hustlin!

Are you kidding? There's 10 times as much gambling on the golf course than there is in the pool room.

 

[Mr441]

Gambling would probably still exist among amateurs but I doubt it would at the pro level. Snooker pros don't really gamble as far as I know, but I believe they did before it got really big in the 80's.

 

[MikeM]

Are you kidding? There's 10 times as much gambling on the golf course than there is in the pool room.

^^^
THIS. Ask Phil or Tiger or any number of pro golfers if there is gambling at their level. I know you'll get a big yes. They play for HUGE stakes too.

Gambling isn't about the game, it's about action. Any time you put a bunch of competitive people together to play a game - any game - someone's gonna ask "Whaddya wanna play for?".

 

[Pyrrhomaniac]

Gambling would go through the roof. It's known as a gambler's sport, and it's often done in bars where children aren't allowed. There's not the same amount of pressure to stay clean and on the narrow as with other sports because children just don't get a lot of exposure. Add to that a giant increase in the money available to the sport, and the huslters would go wild.

 

[trustyrusty]

A good number of pool players make a good-very good living playing pool??? Gambling would certainly INCREASE! no question

 

[CharlesUFarley]

I believe that in this Hypothetical situation, Gambling would increase because of the extra money floating around.

In real life....I think pool would become WAYYYYY more popular if we would embrace the gambling and show it on TV. Take poker as an example. people who don't even play poker like to watch it because big stakes equal drama.

I cant believe we are still trying to dress these guys up like golfers, make them sit in a chair in silence, show no emotion and expect people to watch it. Why dont we put a ten ball ring game on TV, let the players dress how they dress, put microphones on them and turn them loose. I guarantee that this Jerry Springer, Lizard Lick Towing, Repo Games, and Storage Wars watching society would tune in....then you would get sponsors.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I think you're always going to have gambling in pool. Unlike golf, pool is always head-to-head and that intimate clash between two competitors is always going to yield action. In fact, I would venture to say that gambling may even increase. Look no further than amateurs with jobs. Did the job suddenly diminish their desire to gamble? No! It just gave them more bullets.

 

[Ghosst]

In the hypothetical of the OP it is assumed that there is enough money in the tournament that the guy finishing 63th can make a small living while working his way up.

Now, how do you sell that to FoMoCo, Lexus, or another big name sponsor. I would have added Tag Heuer, but in order to make it fit better with pool's crowd and one that would benefit from the association themselves, who would you pick?

If people don't like the golf look, then you can't go after those kinds of sponsors. And if the players can't behave like gentlemen on television, the same applies. So if you're serious (not you specifically macguy) about more money, find a sponsor who likes the way pool is presented to the public.

I'd love to see players make a decent living but the world is divided by those who want it kept dirty and seedy, and those who want it out on display like golf. You've got your product, now pick a target market, and then you'll see who you should look to for advertising and payout money.

Yes, there's tons of gambling in golf, but the whole sport isn't presented that way. Big companies with deep pockets are willing to lend their image to that. Golf is seen as a hobby for the well-to-do, pool is seen quite differently.

 

[macguy]

Now, how do you sell that to FoMoCo, Lexus, or another big name sponsor. I would have added Tag Heuer, but in order to make it fit better with pool's crowd and one that would benefit from the association themselves, who would you pick?

If people don't like the golf look, then you can't go after those kinds of sponsors. And if the players can't behave like gentlemen on television, the same applies. So if you're serious (not you specifically macguy) about more money, find a sponsor who likes the way pool is presented to the public.

I'd love to see players make a decent living but the world is divided by those who want it kept dirty and seedy, and those who want it out on display like golf. You've got your product, now pick a target market, and then you'll see who you should look to for advertising and payout money.

Yes, there's tons of gambling in golf, but the whole sport isn't presented that way. Big companies with deep pockets are willing to lend their image to that. Golf is seen as a hobby for the well-to-do, pool is seen quite differently.

His post was hypothetical regarding gambling if players made a decent living. There is no debate about pool not being able to attract sponsors, that is a given. Why would anyone sponsor a sport with no following other then an extremely small subculture.

What the sport is means nothing, heck, they sponsor wrestling, sponsors have no higher moral calling, it is about money. Public interest is what matters and pool is not even on the public's radar. Once this is understood pools future is more clear. There is no conspiracy going on against pool, it just has nothing to interest a sponsor. Pool can be sold to a small market within its own subculture and that is that. It will never be big but will always have a small loyal market.

 

[Ghosst]

I like the sponsors such as PartyPoker because it fits well with the current image and it's dollars for the players. I have my stance; I'd rather see pool return to a golf-style approach, but that doesn't mean it's either correct or fits well with the sport as it stands now.

My post is mostly a question; who's the target market for pool?

As far as gambling, if there's more money to be had for all players I think there would be more money changing hands. I also don't think it would be bad thing.

 

[macguy]

I like the sponsors such as PartyPoker because it fits well with the current image and it's dollars for the players. I have my stance; I'd rather see pool return to a golf-style approach, but that doesn't mean it's either correct or fits well with the sport as it stands now.

My post is mostly a question; who's the target market for pool?

As far as gambling, if there's more money to be had for all players I think there would be more money changing hands. I also don't think it would be bad thing.

This conversation goes back even farther then the Fats quote,

"Putting a suit on a pool player is like putting whip cream on a hot dog".

Maybe the powers that be will recognize pool is what it is and much of the mystique of the game is it's history of gambling, living on the outside, modern day gunfighters with cues. Movies, books, TV have always capitalized on it from "The Hustler" to an episode of "My Three sons". It is what people identify pool as. Now matter where ones views on gambling may fall, that exciting aspect of the sport should be exploited, it already exists. No need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to pool.

I don't really understand why an independent film maker has not done a movie documentary on say the Derby tournament. I love the Sundance channel and they have documentaries of almost every subject you can think of, pool would be great I think.