Gambling Christian??
- Thread starter Drake
- Start date
hillbilly said:
I am not sure if you remember me Charlie, but during the Predator Open in Jacksonville Robb Saez and I spoke with you for a good 20 or 30 minutes about this (sorta). I was dating him at the time??!! My point: I had a decent conversation with you about why your Christian beliefs are so strong. You told me about the struggles you have overcome, and how it has changed your perspective on certain things. It's somewhat personal, I think, so I won't invade that on an open forum, but from what I spoke with you about, I think gambling (participating or not) would have affect on your beliefs. You have faith in the Lord, and you feel strongly about it. Who say any of us can judge your loyalty to the Lord, based on dropping 10 bucks in a slot machine, or 2000 bucks on a good gambling game. You are a good person, I saw first hand...these people probably have no clue! Good Luck to you...
I remember speaking with you 9balldiva, I enjoyed meeting you and Robby in Jacksonville. I also had a very good conversation about this with Charlie, and I respect the fact that we have opposing views.
I do not like participating in debates over God's word. We can fill this thread with our opinions and "what we think" until we have 25 pages of arguments and disagreements. That solves nothing. I am well educated on The Bible and I have been teaching it for years. I understand that some people couldn't care less about that. The fact remains that all of us are sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. Just because I am a Christian and have all of this knowledge does not mean I am immune to sin. It is essential that we remember: God is not as concerned with how much we know as with what we are and how we behave. I fight the spiritual battle every day, and I start every day by getting my knees in prayer. I end every day the same exact way. In between I make a lot of mistakes. Another thing I do every morning is read Ephesians 6. I need my spiritual armour if I am to go into battle.
Gambling is another subject I am familar with as well. It is something that I stay away from because it leads me into a path of other self destructive behaviors. Marissa - brings up slavery. Christ's blood gave us everlasting life. I provided you (Marissa) with some good reading material a few months ago. Please open it up and read it. It will open up your eyes to a new understanding of God's word.
Bible Interpretation
When interpreting the bible, we have to be careful not to make the Bible say what we want it to say. We have to avoid superficial interpretation. We must also bridge some gaps.
The first gap to be bridged is language. The Bible was not written in English, and some words have been translatd from Latin to Greek, to English with no exact interpretive word. King James did not write the Bible.
The second gap to be bridged is culture. The Bible was not written last week. It was not written for or by 21st century man. Our cultural comprehension is going to be clouded if we do not have the perspective of someone that lived during the Old Testament. A good 90% of the non-Christian people I have spoken to on Biblical subjects have absolutely no knowledge of why there was a New Testament, and what the New testament did for the Old Testament. This thread proves that as well. Culturally, the Middle East in 900 B.C. is going to be a lot different culturally compared to someone that lives in Cleveland in 2005 A.D., think about it.
The third gap that neds to be bridged is Geography. That same 90% would be unable to show me on current day map where Biblical history occurred. We are currently at war in a land that has an extensive history in the Bible. Many people are unaware of that.
The fourth gap that needs to be bridged is the Historical gap. To understand why things are adressed in the New Testament, one must have the knowledge of the Old Testament, which is a very accurate historical record. The Bible must be considered authoritative where it conflicts with other books of ancient history. Even from an antibiblical perspective, the Bible is the most accurate historical record of ancient history available. Archaeology has consistently validated biblical records. Without possessing that historical knowledge, one cannot accurately interpret the meanings of Scripture.God's command for Israel to collect manna as food in the wilderness was obviously not intended to apply later in history.For example, the Old Testament command to love your neighbor (Lev 19:18) still applies today (Rom 13:9; Gal 5:14; James 2:8), but only nine of the Ten Commandments were carried over into the New Testament. Some of the Old Testament commandments were completely nullified, such as the prohibition against eating certain foods (Lev 11 vs. Acts 10:9-16) and the requirement for circumcision (Lev 12 vs. Rom 4 and Gal 5 - 6).
When bridging those gaps, use GOOD sources. Don't use word of mouth. Don't ask soeone that knows less than you, find the correct resources such as a Morris Book Synopsis, A Concordance, or Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary. These books are excellent aids in opening the world of the Bible. They will also guide you through and bridge all of the these 4 gaps.
Thee are also 4 principles that need to be followed as well:
Literal Principle: Understand Scripture in its Literal sense
Historical Principle: What did it mean to the people it was written for?
Grammatical Principle: What does it REALLY say?
Practical Principle: How does it apply to me?
Here is a great link for further reading about on this topic:
http://www.spiritwatch.org/biblestudy4.htm
The following is a passage from When The Enemy Strikes by Charles Stanley. It is a very accurate assessment to the way I view this subject and many others when I hear justifications for different behaviors.
Through the years countless people have told me that they have a different interpretation of a particular verse or passage, and amazingly it's always an interpretation that allows them to believe what they already want to believe so they can live the way they want to live-and the way they want to live is nearly always a way that holds the least amount of pain, effort, self-denial, and discomfort! They have decided that life should be easy and that no decisions should have terrible or eternal negative consequences. Therefore, anything in God's Word that calls upon them to make a difficult choice or a hard decision-and especially anything in God's Word that might spell out a decision related to eternal consequences-is given a "different interpretation."
People sometimes ask me, "What do you believe about... ?" and they'll name a particular topic or question. I respond, "Let's read what God's Word says." I open the Bible and let the person read aloud a particular passage. The person very often remarks, "Well, I know that's what the Bible says, but there are different opinions on what that means."
There's ultimately only one "different opinion," and that's the devil's opinion. When God says, "Thou shalt not," He means, "Thou shalt not." We can try to define shalt and not every which way we know, but the command is still, "Thou shalt not." The only different opinion is, "Thou may," and that includes the provision, "Thou may without any negative consequence." That's the devil's opinion.
If you find yourself having to manipulate the interpretation of a very straightforward commandment of God in order to justify your opinion, you're walking on a slippery path. When God says, "Don't do it," He means, "Don't do it"! He doesn't say, "Only certain people are not to do it," or "Only some of the time will there be a negative consequence if you do this," or "This is My opinion right now about not doing this, but centuries down the line, it will probably be acceptable to do this." No. God's commands are very clear. They are very precise. And they are absolute.
The devil asked Eve, "Has God said... ?" And when that didn't work, he said, "Surely God didn't mean..." He comes at us with the same tactic. He wants us to wonder if God has really spoken on a particular matter. And then if we discover He has, the devil wants us to question God's meaning.
If the devil can get you to misinterpret God's Word that addresses a particular need or situation, he knows that you are just one step closer to yielding to that temptation.
That says it all.
I did not write this to strike up further debate, just to shed light on my views of bible interpretation. If you want to argue or debate, fiind a pastor. LOL. I know some people will reply back to this without investigating or reading all of what I wrote. That's ok too. If you like to gamble, nothing I type in here is going to stop you from doing that if you have your heart set in that direction. Myself, I try to particiapte in activities that bring me closer to God. Gambling is not one of those activites.
Good Luck & God Bless
Blackjack
I do not like participating in debates over God's word. We can fill this thread with our opinions and "what we think" until we have 25 pages of arguments and disagreements. That solves nothing. I am well educated on The Bible and I have been teaching it for years. I understand that some people couldn't care less about that. The fact remains that all of us are sinners and we all fall short of the glory of God. Just because I am a Christian and have all of this knowledge does not mean I am immune to sin. It is essential that we remember: God is not as concerned with how much we know as with what we are and how we behave. I fight the spiritual battle every day, and I start every day by getting my knees in prayer. I end every day the same exact way. In between I make a lot of mistakes. Another thing I do every morning is read Ephesians 6. I need my spiritual armour if I am to go into battle.
Gambling is another subject I am familar with as well. It is something that I stay away from because it leads me into a path of other self destructive behaviors. Marissa - brings up slavery. Christ's blood gave us everlasting life. I provided you (Marissa) with some good reading material a few months ago. Please open it up and read it. It will open up your eyes to a new understanding of God's word.
Bible Interpretation
When interpreting the bible, we have to be careful not to make the Bible say what we want it to say. We have to avoid superficial interpretation. We must also bridge some gaps.
The first gap to be bridged is language. The Bible was not written in English, and some words have been translatd from Latin to Greek, to English with no exact interpretive word. King James did not write the Bible.
The second gap to be bridged is culture. The Bible was not written last week. It was not written for or by 21st century man. Our cultural comprehension is going to be clouded if we do not have the perspective of someone that lived during the Old Testament. A good 90% of the non-Christian people I have spoken to on Biblical subjects have absolutely no knowledge of why there was a New Testament, and what the New testament did for the Old Testament. This thread proves that as well. Culturally, the Middle East in 900 B.C. is going to be a lot different culturally compared to someone that lives in Cleveland in 2005 A.D., think about it.
The third gap that neds to be bridged is Geography. That same 90% would be unable to show me on current day map where Biblical history occurred. We are currently at war in a land that has an extensive history in the Bible. Many people are unaware of that.
The fourth gap that needs to be bridged is the Historical gap. To understand why things are adressed in the New Testament, one must have the knowledge of the Old Testament, which is a very accurate historical record. The Bible must be considered authoritative where it conflicts with other books of ancient history. Even from an antibiblical perspective, the Bible is the most accurate historical record of ancient history available. Archaeology has consistently validated biblical records. Without possessing that historical knowledge, one cannot accurately interpret the meanings of Scripture.God's command for Israel to collect manna as food in the wilderness was obviously not intended to apply later in history.For example, the Old Testament command to love your neighbor (Lev 19:18) still applies today (Rom 13:9; Gal 5:14; James 2:8), but only nine of the Ten Commandments were carried over into the New Testament. Some of the Old Testament commandments were completely nullified, such as the prohibition against eating certain foods (Lev 11 vs. Acts 10:9-16) and the requirement for circumcision (Lev 12 vs. Rom 4 and Gal 5 - 6).
When bridging those gaps, use GOOD sources. Don't use word of mouth. Don't ask soeone that knows less than you, find the correct resources such as a Morris Book Synopsis, A Concordance, or Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary. These books are excellent aids in opening the world of the Bible. They will also guide you through and bridge all of the these 4 gaps.
Thee are also 4 principles that need to be followed as well:
Literal Principle: Understand Scripture in its Literal sense
Historical Principle: What did it mean to the people it was written for?
Grammatical Principle: What does it REALLY say?
Practical Principle: How does it apply to me?
Here is a great link for further reading about on this topic:
http://www.spiritwatch.org/biblestudy4.htm
The following is a passage from When The Enemy Strikes by Charles Stanley. It is a very accurate assessment to the way I view this subject and many others when I hear justifications for different behaviors.
Through the years countless people have told me that they have a different interpretation of a particular verse or passage, and amazingly it's always an interpretation that allows them to believe what they already want to believe so they can live the way they want to live-and the way they want to live is nearly always a way that holds the least amount of pain, effort, self-denial, and discomfort! They have decided that life should be easy and that no decisions should have terrible or eternal negative consequences. Therefore, anything in God's Word that calls upon them to make a difficult choice or a hard decision-and especially anything in God's Word that might spell out a decision related to eternal consequences-is given a "different interpretation."
People sometimes ask me, "What do you believe about... ?" and they'll name a particular topic or question. I respond, "Let's read what God's Word says." I open the Bible and let the person read aloud a particular passage. The person very often remarks, "Well, I know that's what the Bible says, but there are different opinions on what that means."
There's ultimately only one "different opinion," and that's the devil's opinion. When God says, "Thou shalt not," He means, "Thou shalt not." We can try to define shalt and not every which way we know, but the command is still, "Thou shalt not." The only different opinion is, "Thou may," and that includes the provision, "Thou may without any negative consequence." That's the devil's opinion.
If you find yourself having to manipulate the interpretation of a very straightforward commandment of God in order to justify your opinion, you're walking on a slippery path. When God says, "Don't do it," He means, "Don't do it"! He doesn't say, "Only certain people are not to do it," or "Only some of the time will there be a negative consequence if you do this," or "This is My opinion right now about not doing this, but centuries down the line, it will probably be acceptable to do this." No. God's commands are very clear. They are very precise. And they are absolute.
The devil asked Eve, "Has God said... ?" And when that didn't work, he said, "Surely God didn't mean..." He comes at us with the same tactic. He wants us to wonder if God has really spoken on a particular matter. And then if we discover He has, the devil wants us to question God's meaning.
If the devil can get you to misinterpret God's Word that addresses a particular need or situation, he knows that you are just one step closer to yielding to that temptation.
That says it all.
I did not write this to strike up further debate, just to shed light on my views of bible interpretation. If you want to argue or debate, fiind a pastor. LOL. I know some people will reply back to this without investigating or reading all of what I wrote. That's ok too. If you like to gamble, nothing I type in here is going to stop you from doing that if you have your heart set in that direction. Myself, I try to particiapte in activities that bring me closer to God. Gambling is not one of those activites.
Good Luck & God Bless
Blackjack
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Blackjack...I have read what you have posted on this site for quite sometime but never responded. Most of your views of the pool world I tend to agree with.....your one sided view of religion/God, I don't. How can you be so sure what you believe is right? But what is worse than that is that you along with most Bible thumpers(for lack of a better description & not meant to be derogatory) feel that if someone thinks differently they are wrong? Do you really think that Noah sat in an arc for 40 days & 40 nights with two of each animal? Remember a few years back when a group of fanatics killed themselves so they could 'follow Haleys comet'. Most people thought them as crazy. What if they are right? What if you have spent your entire life getting on your knees praying twice a day to only find out when you die that you were wrong? What if you missed your chance to be on the comet for eternal life? I know, I know...the bible says it is a sin to take your own life yet you spend your entire religious life worshipping Jesus who supposedly took his life to save yours. And I can't stand it when someone says after someone dies that 'at least they are in a better place'. What if you really didnt know the true person and they went to Hell? And if they are in a better place, shouldn't we all kill ourselves so we can join them?
You believe in forgiveness?? Picture this--do you have a daughter? A man breaks into your house, ties you up...ties your daughter up and sodomizes her in front of you for say 3 days straight. Then he 'finds Jesus', so I guess you forgive him??
I am no expert on the Bible so I guess you can hold that against me but isn't there a commandment saying that you shouldn't bow down to any idols?? Well what do they have in every church in America---an idol of Jesus Christ! I wish I owned a church or two, I would be rich beyond my imagination.
Separation of church & state in the USA. I think not. Why do churches get tax free income of money? Actually, in my younger years I went around & investigated a lot of religions & there beliefs & practices. The one that I still respect the most was the head of the Hare Krishna (sp?). At least he was honest & looked me & a few of my friends in the eye & said, this is a business & we run it as such. FYI, the Hare Krishnas are one of the biggest sellers of christmas trees in this country. Keep that in mind this holiday season when are around the tree, opening presents, drinking egg nog, and celebrating the birth of christ.
I don't care if you worship a comet, a pet rock, a can of bud light, Pamela Anderson's ass, or jesus christ--just please stop trying to thump it into my head & telling me I am living my life wrong.
You believe in forgiveness?? Picture this--do you have a daughter? A man breaks into your house, ties you up...ties your daughter up and sodomizes her in front of you for say 3 days straight. Then he 'finds Jesus', so I guess you forgive him??
I am no expert on the Bible so I guess you can hold that against me but isn't there a commandment saying that you shouldn't bow down to any idols?? Well what do they have in every church in America---an idol of Jesus Christ! I wish I owned a church or two, I would be rich beyond my imagination.
Separation of church & state in the USA. I think not. Why do churches get tax free income of money? Actually, in my younger years I went around & investigated a lot of religions & there beliefs & practices. The one that I still respect the most was the head of the Hare Krishna (sp?). At least he was honest & looked me & a few of my friends in the eye & said, this is a business & we run it as such. FYI, the Hare Krishnas are one of the biggest sellers of christmas trees in this country. Keep that in mind this holiday season when are around the tree, opening presents, drinking egg nog, and celebrating the birth of christ.
I don't care if you worship a comet, a pet rock, a can of bud light, Pamela Anderson's ass, or jesus christ--just please stop trying to thump it into my head & telling me I am living my life wrong.
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But here lies the crux of the problem. If we are to interpret the Bible ourselves, how can we be definitely sure our interpretation is the correct one? There are thousands and thousands of Protestant denominations out there, all claiming their interpretation is THE correct interpretation. Not ALL of them can be correct, right? Christians don't even agree on such basic principles as the eucharist, divorce and remarriage, homosexual marriage, and EVEN the divinity of Christ! All these differences are a result of leaving the interpretation of Scriptures to the individual. This cannot be the way God intended for us.Blackjack said:
jsp said:
...and this is exactly why I do not believe in organized religion. I do, however have faith in a greater being (whether it be God or Allah). I know there has to be someone greater than everyone else...it's everywhere. In life, there is someone greater than me at my job, someone greater than him, and so on, then there's the president (greater than everyone in the country), so logically speaking there would have to be someone who is greater than them ALL.
I have many many questions about the bible, most of which I will never get a satisfactory answer (for myself). Two people reproduced us all? The bible is old, how do we know some guy didn't just pick up some paper and start writing a story? Rising from the dead after 3 days? I just don't know!!
I think I can pray from home (and not be in church), but I also respect the views of those who are religious about church going and worshiping the Christ. Nobody has wrong views...that is what is so great in America! We are all free to worship, pray, have faith, or none of the above if we choose. You may not agree with me, and I may not agree with the next guy, but in any case WE are not the judge of who is right and who is wrong...
In other words...
So, you were walking side by side with Jesus during all of this? I'm not thinking so. How could you possibly know? Oh, the Bible, that's right! Those who wrote the Bible walked side by side with Jesus through all of his days. No way, no how! These thoughts are opinions, not facts. Nobody really knows what happend in the days of Christ, not even the Bible.
Simple cause and effect you are saying? So, if I get raped, and that causes my brother to kill a man...I am in sin too? Not to mention, the premarital sex...I racked up on sin in this one. NO WAY, the writing of the Bible is not something I can believe. I cannot imagine a man of such good stature (God) considering me in such sins under these circumstances.
So is dancing to baptist, birth control to catholics, abortion to catholics...but under circumstances all of these are commited daily. Our home was very Catholic, along with my entire family, but birth control is in our family, and when my cousin was raped, and got pregnant...she had an abortion. At a baptist wedding everyone is dancing, so all of these people are in sin?? I can't imagine that being the case...
I am not attacking your beliefs, I am just playing my part of the opposing views. I very much respect anybody's religious beliefs, or lack thereof. I just have many questions, and you seem to have many answers...
poolplayer1988 said:
So, you were walking side by side with Jesus during all of this? I'm not thinking so. How could you possibly know? Oh, the Bible, that's right! Those who wrote the Bible walked side by side with Jesus through all of his days. No way, no how! These thoughts are opinions, not facts. Nobody really knows what happend in the days of Christ, not even the Bible.
poolplayer1988 said:
Simple cause and effect you are saying? So, if I get raped, and that causes my brother to kill a man...I am in sin too? Not to mention, the premarital sex...I racked up on sin in this one. NO WAY, the writing of the Bible is not something I can believe. I cannot imagine a man of such good stature (God) considering me in such sins under these circumstances.
poolplayer1988 said:
So is dancing to baptist, birth control to catholics, abortion to catholics...but under circumstances all of these are commited daily. Our home was very Catholic, along with my entire family, but birth control is in our family, and when my cousin was raped, and got pregnant...she had an abortion. At a baptist wedding everyone is dancing, so all of these people are in sin?? I can't imagine that being the case...
I am not attacking your beliefs, I am just playing my part of the opposing views. I very much respect anybody's religious beliefs, or lack thereof. I just have many questions, and you seem to have many answers...
jsp said:
...very true! So, in turn, we should all have our own Bible, and interpret it our way, and live by that. I don't go to church because of this. I know I will never find a preacher who teaches the Bible exactly how I have interpreted it...not to mentioned, the preacher automatically believes it is all true...I, however, don't!
Actually, my point is the exact opposite. If you can't rely on a preacher to interpret the Bible, how can you rely on your own interpretation? What makes you believe your interpretation is THE correct one? Surely not every single interpretation can be correct, because that would imply multiple truths. For example, Jesus cannot be ONLY God and ONLY man at the same time. One has to be right and the other wrong, or BOTH have to be wrong. They both can't be right (The real answer is Jesus is BOTH fully God and fully man). God gave us the Catholic Church to be the supreme interpreter, since it was the Catholic Church who compiled the bible in the first place. I discussed this in a similar thread...don't want to go too far off topic with this...9balldiva said:
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=19264&highlight=church
I would like to again profess to be a known sinner.