Gambling DOES NOT help your game, ever!

[Pushout]

Replying to axjunkie because sm is on my ignore list: Somebody told me long ago that playing for money "gives me a reason not to miss." For a long time it was hard to not miss without playing for money. I'm better at not missing not playing for money now, but still played the best when gambling.

 

[Craig Fales]

The nongambler will get his ass handed to him because his game will be sloppy...he's not used to having a consequence to losing...
________

 

[Timberly]

The nongambler will get his ass handed to him because his game will be sloppy...he's not used to having a consequence to losing...

Not having a consequence to losing... perfect analogy. LOL, as you can tell, I've posted A LOT of words trying to express that o ) and the fact that the nongambler (using the twins playing in a tournament theory) will be nervous as heck... not only will money be up for grabs in the tournament but there will be specators watching them. There will be pressure on the nongambler that they've never experienced before. They would buckle under the pressure.

 

[DBMcG86]

I don't necessarily agree that a good gambler is a good tournament player. They are two different types of mental games. I good gambler must have the heart to stay in it for hours on end, a tournament player must have the ability to play his best game every time he is at the table. I notice, when gambling, sometimes losing at first is not always a bad thing, as it might take a set or so to get in stroke. However, a tournament player doesn't have the benefit of coming and getting him back next set.

As far as gambling helping your game, I don't know if I totally agree with that. Some people do need to gamble in order to create that pressure situation. I am still young, and I am still increasing my salary. I started playing in pool halls when I first turned 18. At that time, playing for two dollars a game made me a little nervous, now losing a couple hundred in a night doesn't seem as hard to do. Sometimes I wonder if gambling is really what creates that pressure, or is it the fear of losing your money. As I get older and make more money, it takes more money per set or game for it to really matter whether I win or lose. When I play in a tournament, I try to bring my best game possible. Sometimes it was hard for me to play well. So lately, I have found that if I mentally take myself to an important match, or pretend that I am in that tournament situation where I always have to bring my A game, I have become a much stronger player. If you can force yourself to create that pressure without any reason to, I feel that it will help you more than playing for money. Trying this was a tip from Nick Varner. I had an extensive conversation about 8 months ago. Another thing he told me, "it doesn't matter why you are shooting a shot, whether it is practice, or in a match, make sure that you are confident that what you are trying to do is in deed going to happen. If you are trying make the ball, if you don't feel 100% confident that you are going to make it, stand up do something until you are very confident that you know what is going to happen after you hit the CB."

 

[cheesemouse]

I have always played pool for money but never thought of it as a means to making a living ( I liked hot running water ). The action, getting the juices flowing, locking horns, and the thrill of putting your game out there right here right now seemed to me to be the driving force. Now that I have the retrospective hindsight I can't think that I could have gotten more pleasure out of the game by not gambling. I look at the money as 'fun coupons'. Everytime I left my crib with my cue I knew how many coupons I had and approxamately how much fun I was going to have. I didn't know who I was going to play but it was going to be someone. Now days with more tournaments and organized leagues it could be argued that taking your game to the max could be attained on these paths but I will never know if that is true for me. All I know is that in all the tournaments (100's) I have played in I never got my game into overdrive like I could in a tough 10 hour gambling session. I would venture to say that if it could be known the vast majority of the top players would admit that their very top gear was reached in a gambling session not in tournament play.

I still have fun coupons......LOL

 

[Timberly]

I don't necessarily agree that a good gambler is a good tournament player.

Not sure if you're getting this idea from what I posted or if someone else might've said something to that effect, but that's not what I meant at all. Most everyone will tell you that there's 2 kinds of players... tournament players and gamblers. Some do both but most excel in one or the other.

When I used gambling and tournament play as an example, I used it for the mental/nerves aspect of it. A set of twins, one gambles, one never has, neither one has ever played in a tournament. For their first tournament and subsequently, a few more after that, the twin that gambled was going to have the upper hand on the twin that had not simply because he had already been subjected to pressure that the other twin had never faced.

 

[TheOne]

Not sure if you're getting this idea from what I posted or if someone else might've said something to that effect, but that's not what I meant at all. Most everyone will tell you that there's 2 kinds of players... tournament players and gamblers. Some do both but most excel in one or the other.

When I used gambling and tournament play as an example, I used it for the mental/nerves aspect of it. A set of twins, one gambles, one never has, neither one has ever played in a tournament. For their first tournament and subsequently, a few more after that, the twin that gambled was going to have the upper hand on the twin that had not simply because he had already been subjected to pressure that the other twin had never faced.

I think your original example summed it up pretty well. Lots of good posts in thsi thread clearly outlining the reasons why it helps.

 

[td873]

Lots of good posts in this thread clearly outlining the reasons why it helps.

I think this is the critical point. Written another way, there is a LOT of debate on the exent gambling will help, but there is NO DISCUSSION that gambling will affect your game negatively.

-td

 

[Bamacues]

I think this is the critical point. Written another way, there is a LOT of debate on the exent gambling will help, but there is NO DISCUSSION that gambling will affect your game negatively.

-td

I know a couple of big money players who lost big. One quit playing (perhaps he will come back later) and the other went through a big depression and still can't get his game back close to where it was.

 

[chrstc]

Allison Fisher's opinion!

Hi,
Sorry if this has already been posted. I don't want to get into a war of words with anyone. I'm too non-confrontational!

Here's Allison's take on things from the IPT website http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/news/article11.asp

Clearly if snooker players do gamble a lot then it didn't extend to the womens game!


Q: What do you think of the celebrated pool movies, “The Hustler” and “The Color of Money”?
A: Well, unfortunately, an image of pool that keeps getting presented involves hustling. In my snooker career, I never, ever, was exposed to anything like gambling or hustling. So it was a big awakening for me coming over here.

Q: Are you ever tempted ...
A: Not at all.

Q: ... to walk into the neighborhood pool hall or bar and take on the townies?
A: No. I have enough money of my own.

Q: You seem a bit agitated by the question.
A: Look, I'm a tournament player. I wouldn't hustle somebody — it's not in my nature. I couldn't hustle somebody, because I can't miss on purpose.

 

[ironman]

QJ,
I agree with your premise; but I'm not sure it counts as gambling if you get "stakehorsed" (is that a word??...if not it should be).

A couple of years ago at rather big event, the "player went to his "stakehorse" wanting to play an individual for a large sum. The "stakehorse" had been watching and was obviously concerned about a lot of things.
Finally, "stakehorse" takes "player" to the side and tells him this:
"stakehorse", "now player, I love ya and I'll follow to the end of the world. I have some concerns about this game here and just wanted to let you know that if at any time I feel like you have dumped me, I'll kill ya. That's a promise!
Just one other thing, dumpin, or doggin, to me, is the same thing!
That is pressure!

 

[ironman]

I'm not convinced that gambling is necessary to improve your concentration. In sports like chess, for example, chess players are able to concentrate at a high level and improve their game too. Ditto for other sports, as well.

If gambling a certain amount of money, say $200, helps player A "concentrate better," then by the same token it should also help player B concentrate better too.

While losing $200 may not be betting the month's rent, depending upon your income losing $200 can still represent a sizable monetary loss for pool players who may not earn much to start with. Gamblers' who lose money often feel compelled to gamble even more to make up for what they lost.

It many ways gambling at pool is a zero-sum game. For every winner, there's a loser.

That could depend on what the "loser" gained.

 

[Snapshot9]

Gambling ...

I could elaborate a great deal about gambling and Pool, but I will just say,
That 'Gambling makes you scramble for your best game'...

 

[enzo]

My point was that there was an invalid premise to start with resulting in a flawed result - since he "never" gambled, he wouldn't ever gamble, hence there would be no match up, and he couldn't lose.

Also, using the "same" logic you posed: since the "Gambling Twin" would win if they gambled, is it logical to say that the "non-Gambling Twin" would win if they just matched up for nothing since he had more "experience" not gambling.

Just a thought...

-td

the whole point is what people can do when it counts, that is really all that matters in pool and sports, so, who the hell cares who would win when they arent gambling, its really mind boggling to even think about it or bring it up. x or y wins, what difference does it make, there was nothing on it, its not even worth thinking about. but it is VERY worth thinking abouty who would rob who if they had something on it.

 

[jayz]

Not at all, under any circumstances, period! It's a myth.

In what other sports do you see amateurs playing for money in order to
improve their game? It doesn't happen.

It happens all the time in pool, golf, bowling, to name a few. Actually, it gives many players an incentive to play longer, harder, smarter and safer. Playing for money (within your means) should improve your game, IF you are matched up right, not over-matched. The worst thing for your game is to GAMBLE with players you have no chance with and continue to lose to them, under the pretense you are learning how to play. In this case, these will be the lessons you are really learning:

1. Losing everytime you play only cultivates a losing attitude and ruins your confidence level.
2. You need to work on your negotiating skills in matching up.
3. All trappers don't wear fur caps.
4. Don't go elephant hunting with you bee-bee gun.

 

[popman]

Id argue gambling helps. It would be interesting to see who becomes the better player. Take 2 "C" players, player (1) - gets stakehorsed and gambles at pool, player (2) just plays socially and in leagues. Lets see who's game gets better.[/QUOT


If gambling is effecting the player, I would suggest two things are the cause:

1. Stakes are too high. Gambling rules violated.

2. Lacking in mentally toughness.


Nothing is suppose to effect how you play either positively or negatively. If it does you're being overwhelmed.


Here's one way to do this.


Take ones' tournament winnings and gamble with that. If you win, you win. If you lose, you're losing a windfall and no harm done. Your personal finances are in tact.

 

[ironman]

Id argue gambling helps. It would be interesting to see who becomes the better player. Take 2 "C" players, player (1) - gets stakehorsed and gambles at pool, player (2) just plays socially and in leagues. Lets see who's game gets better.[/QUOT


If gambling is effecting the player, I would suggest two things are the cause:

1. Stakes are too high. Gambling rules violated.

2. Lacking in mentally toughness.


Nothing is suppose to effect how you play either positively or negatively. If it does you're being overwhelmed.


Here's one way to do this.


Take ones' tournament winnings and gamble with that. If you win, you win. If you lose, you're losing a windfall and no harm done. Your personal finances are in tact.

How does the stakehorse get involved in this? If there is no risk, it ain't gambling.
Plus, how is a "c" player going to get better simply by playing leagues?

 

[jayz]

One last thing, I know this may sound arrogant, but I respectfully put forward that those who believe gambling has helped their game are fooling themselves.

For those in Reno next month, ask any of the pros there how they prepared for the tourney. They'll tell you they drilled daily for hours and NOT ONE will tell you they played in money matches to improve their game.

I disagree. I doubt that "NOT ONE" will say they played in money matches to get in stroke. Many of them will tell you they did play in competitive money matches, usually races, to get in stroke and prepare, and others will probably agree that if they had the chance to, they also would have "sparred" in competitive matches to do the same. If you are a pro, you may not have the opportunity to play someone races who is close to your ability to prepare. I think many pros would welcome playing races for $20, $50 or $100 to prepare for tournaments.

 

[justnum]

thats your problem thinking for people that arent you.

-the attitude is not directed at you moreso at that wisecrack of yours.
"Pros welcome this and that"

 

[jayz]

Well, how good ARE you after all of that top notch teaching?