Gambling Or No Gambling

[softshot]

if you enjoy betting on pool.... more power to you.... have fun get out of it what you want out of it...

but never tell anyone that they HAVE to gamble to be good at pool...

because it is just not true

saying that outright will kill a lot of action.... too bad...

more good pool player's to challenge me ..is worth you losing action..

do you want to steal?? or would you rather have some competition...

tourney players want top competition...

gamblers want sheep to fleece...

make your opponent better and you are constantly challenged...... beat bangers into the dust and you kill your action....

do you want to beat a good player??? or do you just want the cash???

the answer will tell you all you need to know about yourself...

play the game FOR the game

or just quit and play dice..

 

[Pushout]

With that in mind, I'll ask the GAMBLERS only - is there satisfaction in taking someone elses money, or is just winning money the goal? I think I know the answer, but would like to hear the responses....

I'm speaking for myself only here, winning the money was/is seldom the goal for me. Playing for money is a means to an end, not the end in itself. Yes, I've enjoyed taking money from some people. In particular, someone who thought their skill level was way over mine and they had bragged about how bad they could beat me, spotting me quite a bit in Straight pool. I've liked coming out on the winning end of a ring game after four or five hours. I like taking someone's money who's intent is just to win mine. Hustle in reverse, so to speak.
I've said this before, playing for money gives me a reason not to miss. It sharpens my concentration. Keeps me down on the shot 'till the ball goes in the pocket. I admit that there have been times when I've played for money and this didn't happen, but more often than not, it did. It's kind of like risking something in hopes of some reward. I've never been able to play real well in tournaments and I've hated playing for nothing and losing to people well, well below my own skill level just because they wouldn't bet two dollars that fat meat was greasy, to quote the fat man. I've said this before also, it's the way some of us learned to play! And George Fels said in his book "By all means, play for a little something. It will help to learn to handle the unique pressures of the game a bit better", or words to that effect. I just don't like people making an agenda against gambling just because they know somebody with a gambling problem and talking like the rest of us who play for money are dirt bags and that all gambling is wrong. Sorry for the rant. And for softshot, I always tell people that playing for money will help them get better faster. It's not the only way, sure, but it's a lot faster than trying to learn to play for pride, for most people, at least in my experience.
Did I answer your question, Rusty??

 

[trustyrusty]

Kinda, but with me, I'd like to win my way through a field of tough competition over winning any large sum of money off of one person.

 

[grindz]

On the other hand I despise the self righteous who look down their noses at those who do gamble and think that they should be able to force their perspectives on those of us who would have none of it.

JoeyA

Then on the other side I despise the self righteous who look down their noses at those who do NOT gamble and think that they should be able to force their perspectives on those of us who would have none of it.

Usually they (gamblers) are the ones who cannot even think of the possibility playing a game w/out money. And almost w/out fail resort to name calling. Your pole already proves that it's not the non gamblers who are the self righteous ones and that almost all of them (edit ..non gamblers) don't care about it.

I think (IMO) that what most non gamblers want is for the "given" to be taken away that everyone accept that pool is a gamblers game. Just think of the analogy of the smokers paradigm....for a lot of years they felt that it was their God given right to blow their smoke and force all non smokers to breath it in restaurants, bars and all public places. If you are not a smoker...how did you like it.

td

 

[JoeyA]

With that in mind, I'll ask the GAMBLERS only - is there satisfaction in taking someone elses money, or is just winning money the goal? I think I know the answer, but would like to hear the responses....

Pushout answered you far better than I would have been able to answer you and I agree with his post.

Your TWO questions were examples of your prejudice towards gambling. While you MAY reluctantly partake in gambling you actually think gambling is wrong and wish that it was not part of pool. I think you contradicted yourself on your vote and didn't vote the way you truly feel.

At least that's what I gathered from your post. No harm, no foul.... I'm glad to read your post. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to hear some other posters make their argument against gambling AND HOPE THAT OTHER AZ POSTERS WHO PREFER GAMBLING WILL NOT ATTEMPT TO RIDICULE THEM.

Thanks,

JoeyA

 

[crawfish]

I played a little last night for the cheese. I can't imagine a better feeling than a good ol' fashioned gunfight, coming out on top, then going to Waffle House with a bud to laugh it up and try to sober up. I guess the tourney thing just isn't for me. I can't concentrate or "not drink" that long. I don't need a trophy. And, if you count expenses, and the fact that you have to make it through the whole field to get any real money, and there you have it. It's just not profitable unless you win consistently. And since I can't hit the end rail, I'd just rather match up and get it over with.

 

[JoeyA]

I played a little last night for the cheese. I can't imagine a better feeling than a good ol' fashioned gunfight, coming out on top, then going to Waffle House with a bud to laugh it up and try to sober up. I guess the tourney thing just isn't for me. I can't concentrate or "not drink" that long. I don't need a trophy. And, if you count expenses, and the fact that you have to make it through the whole field to get any real money, and there you have it. It's just not profitable unless you win consistently. And since I can't hit the end rail, I'd just rather match up and get it over with.

The Waffle House has been steadily going up on their prices. Did you make enough to pay for the breakfast at the Waffle House?

I believe the tournaments are tougher than gambling but I like them both. The profitability thing on tournaments can be debated but I understand where you're coming from.
JoeyA

 

[jasonlaus]

I guess it depends on how much your pride is worth, for some people pride is worth alot more than cash. When I was younger I didn't care if I got the cash or not as long as I played good. I would rather lose & play good than play bad & win. I'm still the same nothing has changed.
I will not ask for a spot & try not to give one. There are a few strong players I play that do not gamble so it improves my game without risk (of losing money not pride) And yes I enjoy gambling.
Do what you want, gamble or dont who am I to judge.

 

[ironman]

Yeah, you're right. Remember poor old Pete Rose.
JoeyA

Before him there was ALex Karras and Paul Hornung. Then came a guy named Jordan.

 

[grindz]

I DON'T care if people gamble.....

I'm speaking for myself only here, winning the money was/is seldom the goal for me. Playing for money is a means to an end, not the end in itself. Yes, I've enjoyed taking money from some people. In particular, someone who thought their skill level was way over mine and they had bragged about how bad they could beat me, spotting me quite a bit in Straight pool. I've liked coming out on the winning end of a ring game after four or five hours. I like taking someone's money who's intent is just to win mine. Hustle in reverse, so to speak.
I've said this before, playing for money gives me a reason not to miss. It sharpens my concentration. Keeps me down on the shot 'till the ball goes in the pocket. I admit that there have been times when I've played for money and this didn't happen, but more often than not, it did. It's kind of like risking something in hopes of some reward. I've never been able to play real well in tournaments and I've hated playing for nothing and losing to people well, well below my own skill level just because they wouldn't bet two dollars that fat meat was greasy, to quote the fat man. ........................................................................................... I just don't like people making an agenda against gambling just because they know somebody with a gambling problem and talking like the rest of us who play for money are dirt bags and that all gambling is wrong.

I could care less if other people gamble!!!!!! But to use Joey's phrase :smile: "I despise the self righteous" that try to force their way on to others. It is easily apparent that the gamblers outnumber the Nons by a huge margin...maybe 5 or 10 to 1....at least on this forum of players or wanna bes. THEY (the gamblers....ARE the SELF RIGHTEOUS!!!!) If anyone here can't see that....they are blind.

If you read the above statements, it says it all. It is ALL about EGO. Taking peoples money is a great way to build up your own. There is NO other reason to gamble with someone except that you want to take their money. If you do it for another reason call Dr. Phil. If you go even deeper, it's not that you hate losing to lesser players because they won't gamble with you it's that you hate NOT BEING ABLE to play well w/out stakes.

The wiser, bigger, more powerful will always try to dominate the challenged, smaller, and weaker, it's human nature. Gambling is just one more way to do it. It was a given not that long ago that slavery is the way things are, and that a wife is a husbands property....still is in parts of the world. Do you accept those things also? I challenge things when I don't think they are in the right.

I am for a culture in pool where everyone doesn't HAVE to gamble...it is a GAME!!! You all can gamble if you want...I choose not to....quit the name calling and disparaging of all those who don't share your views.

td

 

[crawfish]

The Waffle House has been steadily going up on their prices. Did you make enough to pay for the breakfast at the Waffle House?

I believe the tournaments are tougher than gambling but I like them both. The profitability thing on tournaments can be debated but I understand where you're coming from.
JoeyA

Uh, yeah. I covered Waffle House. On the tourney subject, I just look at profit and loss vs. beating the whole field, and then throw in the payouts and it just doesn't make sense to spend two full days (or more), beat ten or more good players, and then make less than what you might win in two eight ahead sets in four hours.

 

[grindz]

Pushout answered you far better than I would have been able to answer you and I agree with his post.

Your TWO questions were examples of your prejudice towards gambling. While you MAY reluctantly partake in gambling you actually think gambling is wrong and wish that it was not part of pool. I think you contradicted yourself on your vote and didn't vote the way you truly feel.

JoeyA

I didn't see it this way at all in your quote of trustyrusty. While I won't pretend to be able to speak for him/her I don't see posing the questions as being anti gambling. You (from what I have read and past interaction) are a considerate and thoughtful person...given that...it is possible for another to discuss the issue with you. I am sure (wanna bet I'm wrong....I'll bet I'm right :wink: ) that your paradigm was shaped by someone preaching at you about how wrong it is to gamble (or maybe a personal battle within)....so you seem to automatically assume if someone is not pro gambling that they hold the same viewpoint as the preacher in your past. That is an incorrect assumption! We all are our own person. Our minds try to lump others into groups to make it easier to remember and maybe for a lack of CPU space. Hence stereotypes...................(self taught psychologist )

I on the other hand....having chosen (later in life) to no longer gamble in pool....have the paradigm of being name called, woofed at and belittled any time I voice my views on this subject in this forum. I only have taken the time to weigh in and respond because I feel you are a thoughtful and considerate person and YOU posed the poll. I think your results prove me right in my opinion that Non gamblers really don't care if gamblers gamble and that the gamblers are in the majority in the "self righteous" category.

What do you think??

td

 

[JoeyA]

Uh, yeah. I covered Waffle House. On the tourney subject, I just look at profit and loss vs. beating the whole field, and then throw in the payouts and it just doesn't make sense to spend two full days (or more), beat ten or more good players, and then make less than what you might win in two eight ahead sets in four hours.

I've gambled my fair share and continue to do so, but I believe I lean more toward getting tortured and punished in the tournaments. It's just more brutal. The handicapped tournaments are the nuts.
JoeyA

 

[crawfish]

I've gambled my fair share and continue to do so, but I believe I lean more toward getting tortured and punished in the tournaments. It's just more brutal. The handicapped tournaments are the nuts.
JoeyA

Yeah, nothing like giving up five games in a race to seven, and the guy breaks and runs out the first game.

 

[JoeyA]

Yeah, nothing like giving up five games in a race to seven, and the guy breaks and runs out the first game.

I get off when the race is to five and my opponent goes to three (with the wild 8), breaks and runs out, then sh**s in one of his money balls in and all I have to do is win five in a row to win.
JoeyA

 

[jasonlaus]

I get off when the race is to five and my opponent goes to three (with the wild 8), breaks and runs out, then sh**s in one of his money balls in and all I have to do is win five in a row to win.
JoeyA

That would make me play one pocket too.

 

[grindz]

Yeah, nothing like giving up five games in a race to seven, and the guy breaks and runs out the first game.

Or like giving up 3 in a race to 5, and being forced to get in the zone with back to back 5 packs (B&Rs). Out running the nutz.....gets you a gear, just like the gamble does. May not happen often, but you'll remember it when it does!!

td

 

[crawfish]

I get off when the race is to five and my opponent goes to three (with the wild 8), breaks and runs out, then sh**s in one of his money balls in and all I have to do is win five in a row to win.
JoeyA

I actually had this happen in a $65 dollar two day event.


This guy comes in as a "six" and I am a "nine." I am spotting him three games going to nine. I played good. Just not good enough. The guy laid it down so well that I actually started woofing at him after the match. He beat me on the hill (which was probably the plan, or at least close). The guy wins the tourney and then beats two other tourneys in Raleigh as a "six." He leaves town. Guess where he went. The US Open. It was Rodney Morris. This was early nineties? Same year I believe he won the Open. I look back on this and am glad he didn't rob me, because I was set on "sailing" mode.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I think everyone likes to see high stakes games whether it's a tournament or action. It's usually the gamblers that are adament about their side of the picture, and are condescending or inflamatory in their opinion of other views.
td

What is interesting to me is....I have never seen that...

Frankly...I don't gamble hardly ever...Ask anyone....I usually play in tournaments here and there and (sometimes) get into friendly ring games or a some friendly $20 race to a million set...

I have never played for more than $100 per set.

Usually my response to someone who asks me to gamble is "no thanks".... I have NEVER been berated or looked down upon for saying no thanks...

The very first time I walked into College Billiards in San Diego, I was getting the balls from the counter guy...As I was walking to my table a guy asked me if I wanted to match up for $50....I replied "what is the race" his reply was.....Uhmmmm...No....$50 a rack... I laughed and said "no thanks...that is out of my league".... He said OK no problem and that was that...

The only people that have ever "woofed" at me are people that know me and/or have gambled with me in the past...but they surly were not woofing at me just becuase I said "no" to gambling.

I have even watched one of the biggest most obnoxious woofers in the world "bucktooth" in action...I have yet to see him woof at someone (individual) who says "I don't gamble"...The man moves on and woofs at someone that does gamble....Sure he barks at a room....just so he can find out where his "action" is.

For the record....IF someone that gambles berates someone who does not...to me it would be the equivalent of a smoker woofing at a non-smoker.......a big waist of time on the smokers part.....(I have yet to see it happen though)

 

[sneakypete1011]

I can't speak for others but I hear a lot of talk from those around me who gamble that my position is cowardly. I have also heard that pool is boring without gambling.

I feel a lot of resentment for this position because I don't like to be called cowardly or boring. I suspect, the low turnout of anti gambling opinions is because "nobetters" like me don't want to listen to yet another arguement that ends up feeling insulting.

I'm overweight and I gave up unhealthy food for several months...almost everything I love to do became "boring." I found that I go to movies to get the popcorn, not to see the film...I visit friends just to get a pizza or eat out, not to enjoy their company... and the list of personal discoveries goes on and on. If I were a gambler, I would probably be interested in pool because it is a vehicle for gambling. It isn't about the game, it is about the matchup...about making a game...and taking the cash. Given that perspective, I respect the gambler's opinion that pool loses its excitment without the bet. If I were an addicted smoker...the pool room is the one culture that still welcomes my cancer stench...and again there would be a strong reinforcement to say "I am a pool player." I challenge the hard core smokers to try pool without the cigarettes and see how they feel about the game. Some will adapt, but some will discover their love of pool is about niccotine delivery.

I am not a gambler. I can get sweaty palms and feel my heart pound with nothing riding on the match. I can bear down with my "A" game against Efren or some mope killing time while his wife shops. I love pool. I love the strategy, the mechanics and the art of a good game. For me, betting makes it about winning, not about playing.

I don't need cash, smokes or frenchfries to love pool...it is the only constant love that has stayed with me throughout my life. Bet on that.

rep for gian because he speaks the truth and he's a heck of a guy... i myself gamble from time to time.. just to play in a pressure match but i prefer to just play the game